President Obama to water down 'Buy American' plan after EU trade war threat
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But you do have to love the delicious irony of it all. Is Cool Hand Hussein all that different from W in making the world mad at us? Will Americans now begin to get it through their thick skulls that there is precious little we can do that doesn't make people hate us unless we do things exactly the way they want us to? Basically giving up our own soveriegnty in exchange for the love of Europe?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Oakman wrote:
Unfortunately he seems to understand Libertarian economic theory about as well as Nancy Pelosi does.
FTFY Both fail to realize that their ideas are opposite ends of the spectrum, but that only makes them equally flawed for opposite reasons.
Rob Graham wrote:
Both fail to realize that their ideas are opposite ends of the spectrum, but that only makes them equally flawed for opposite reasons.
But at least Rothbard, by dint of his political theories, has to accept the fact that others may disagree with him and that he cannot use force to make them accept his views.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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Been reading Ayn Rand again? You do realize that Nixon took us off of the Gold Standard, and there is no longer enough gold to cover the currency in circulation? And the Gold Standard along with no federal reserve, no fractional reserve banking didn't prevent the last depresssion (these deep recessions/depressions happen every 50 years or so, but no one seems to remember back further than the last one or two). And what, exeactly is the value of the dollar (which dollar? the 2000 dollar? the 1970 dollar? the 1930 dollar?) Its been inflating steadily since it came into existence...
CSS_Shadow(); wrote:
All trade with foreign countries must be with the US currency, but first they have to buy the currency with its equivalent value in gold or other hard currency. If they want to sell the US currency back to us, we will trade the gold for it.
Riiiight. I'm sure the Chinese, Saudis, Iranians, Venezuelans, and all those others we depend on for things like oil, shoes, clothing, etc will fall right in line with that. And just a hint here - the Chinese presently hold around 4 Trillion in US currency/treasury bonds. We don't have even $1T in gold in Ft. Knox (147.3 million troy ounces are available at a book value of $42 an ounce, last open market value $906 oz - unlikely you can find a buyer for that quantity at that price) so I don't think we can cover the liability in gold.
Rob Graham wrote:
and there is no longer enough gold to cover the currency in circulation?
yeah, this was my point.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Rob Graham wrote:
and there is no longer enough gold to cover the currency in circulation?
If it is used to buy currency, then the value of gold will sky rocket, if gold is the standard in which all currency is bought, then all the gold in the world will be worth all the money in the world.
Rob Graham wrote:
And what, exeactly is the value of the dollar (which dollar? the 2000 dollar? the 1970 dollar? the 1930 dollar?) Its been inflating steadily since it came into existence...
The value of the dollar is controlled by how much money is in circulation. The more money we print the less the money is worth.
Rob Graham wrote:
Riiiight. I'm sure the Chinese, Saudis, Iranians, Venezuelans, and all those others we depend on for things like oil, shoes, clothing, etc will fall right in line with that. And just a hint here - the Chinese presently hold around 4 Trillion in US currency/treasury bonds. We don't have even $1T in gold in Ft. Knox (147.3 million troy ounces are available at a book value of $42 an ounce, last open market value $906 oz - unlikely you can find a buyer for that quantity at that price) so I don't think we can cover the liability in gold.
We can fuck the chiness right now and make our own goods, we obviously need the jobs. As far as oil, we need to build breeder reactors (they recycle 95% of the fuel) and use hydrogen for portable fuel.
Rob Graham wrote:
We don't have even $1T in gold in Ft. Knox (147.3 million troy ounces are available at a book value of $42 an ounce, last open market value $906 oz - unlikely you can find a buyer for that quantity at that price) so I don't think we can cover the liability in gold.
As I keep saying, the higher the demand for gold the more its worth and the less that will need to be traded for the currency it buys.
CSS_Shadow(); wrote:
if gold is the standard in which all currency is bought, then all the gold in the world will be worth all the money in the world.
So, as more money is printed, the same amount of gold becomes worth more ? And that's not messy at all ?
CSS_Shadow(); wrote:
We can f*** the chiness right now and make our own goods
Bollocks you can. You can't make them anywhere near as cheap, that's why China is doing it for you already.
CSS_Shadow(); wrote:
and use hydrogen for portable fuel.
Yeah, because hydrogen is a fuel. Do you have any idea what you're saying ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Guess who has been reading Murray Rothbard. Unfortunately he seems to understand Libertarian economic theory about as well as Nancy Pelosi does.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Hey I just heard Nancy today talking about how America is going to lose 500 Million jobs next month. Imagine the reaction if Bush or Palin had come out with that statement! :laugh:
I'm pretty sure I would not like to live in a world in which I would never be offended. I am absolutely certain I don't want to live in a world in which you would never be offended. Dave
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CSS_Shadow(); wrote:
Who the f*** are they to tell us how to do business.
Well, often times they are our customers to whom we sell the few things we manufacture. Also, they are long standing trade partners.
CSS_Shadow(); wrote:
The EU can go f*** them selves in hell.
It's really not that simple to just isolate an economy.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
Chris Austin wrote:
Well, often times they are our customers
not to mention that protectionist policies along with government interference with the economy is what cause the great depression.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Been reading Ayn Rand again? You do realize that Nixon took us off of the Gold Standard, and there is no longer enough gold to cover the currency in circulation? And the Gold Standard along with no federal reserve, no fractional reserve banking didn't prevent the last depresssion (these deep recessions/depressions happen every 50 years or so, but no one seems to remember back further than the last one or two). And what, exeactly is the value of the dollar (which dollar? the 2000 dollar? the 1970 dollar? the 1930 dollar?) Its been inflating steadily since it came into existence...
CSS_Shadow(); wrote:
All trade with foreign countries must be with the US currency, but first they have to buy the currency with its equivalent value in gold or other hard currency. If they want to sell the US currency back to us, we will trade the gold for it.
Riiiight. I'm sure the Chinese, Saudis, Iranians, Venezuelans, and all those others we depend on for things like oil, shoes, clothing, etc will fall right in line with that. And just a hint here - the Chinese presently hold around 4 Trillion in US currency/treasury bonds. We don't have even $1T in gold in Ft. Knox (147.3 million troy ounces are available at a book value of $42 an ounce, last open market value $906 oz - unlikely you can find a buyer for that quantity at that price) so I don't think we can cover the liability in gold.
Rob Graham wrote:
which dollar? the 2000 dollar? the 1970 dollar? the 1930 dollar?) Its been inflating steadily since it came into existence...
Actually it took only $1.23 in 1876 currency to buy what $1.00 bought in 1776. But it took $6.73 in 1976 for what was bought for a buck the year the US declared independence. And it cost $23.83 for the same goods in 2006. While I hestitate to seem to side with CSS, it appears that we will all need to exchange our wallets for wheelbarrows in the foreseable future. Someday (soon?) China is going to wake up to the fact that we have conned them into thinking that our money has value. They keep giving us real goods in exchange for paper and then giving us the paper back because we promise to give them extra paper later. And then we take that money and buy more real goods. . . . I hope they don't get angry when they figure it out.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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Chris Austin wrote:
Our current situation goes beyond the federal reserve and fractional reserves
No it doesn't. You need to do some research. Look below the surface and you will realize the simplicity behind it and the outrageous happenings that are happening as a consequence. All planned and deliberate.
Chris Austin wrote:
we really need a longer term view of what is healthy for our economy.
You are obviously not trying to visualize the economy. It needs to be viewed as a machine and if you can do it, then you will realize that it is being manipulated in ways that allow the manipulators even more control essentially making us slaves.
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CSS_Shadow(); wrote:
You need to do some research.
Research? Is that what you call prowling your druggie websites? :laugh:
"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke
Tim Craig wrote:
Is that what you call prowling your druggie websites
ROFL
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5655115.ece[^] Who the fuck are they to tell us how to do business. The EU can go fuck them selves in hell.:mad:
You seem to imply that while its ok for the US to restrict trade in the US when the EU state that if this occurs then it will introduce its own trade barriers thats this is unfair. The EU have said that it will only allow free trade with the US if the US allows freetrade, the problem of Obama won presidenty is that the US needs EU trade more than it would gain by imposing the barriers. The US already imposes a lot of trade restriction over europe both in law and in attitude
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You seem to imply that while its ok for the US to restrict trade in the US when the EU state that if this occurs then it will introduce its own trade barriers thats this is unfair. The EU have said that it will only allow free trade with the US if the US allows freetrade, the problem of Obama won presidenty is that the US needs EU trade more than it would gain by imposing the barriers. The US already imposes a lot of trade restriction over europe both in law and in attitude
Alex hogarth wrote:
You seem to imply that while its ok for the US to restrict trade in the US when the EU state that if this occurs then it will introduce its own trade barriers thats this is unfair.
They stated it as a threat, as if it is going to be a war of some kind.
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Alex hogarth wrote:
You seem to imply that while its ok for the US to restrict trade in the US when the EU state that if this occurs then it will introduce its own trade barriers thats this is unfair.
They stated it as a threat, as if it is going to be a war of some kind.
It was a threat, a threat of retaliation, a fiscal MAD. You cannot restrict trade TO the US and reasonably expect other not to restrict trade FROM the US. And war is what it may end up as, a trade war rather than a fighting one (hopefully) The last time the US tried this was the 30s and it took a world war to get the US out of recession