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Maui - Hawaii

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securitylounge
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  • R Rob Graham

    Since Mike is vacationing, I'll answer for him... Social Security is the federal Government's Retirement plan, instituted during the Great Depression. Basically a Ponzi scheme where benefits are paid to the retired (63 for reduced beneefits, 66 for full) using payroll taxes collected from the currently working. You must have worked and paid in for a minimum period. Social Security stipends range from about 400/mo to 2000/mo depending on how much was paid in, and how long you waited to start collecting). Pension would normally mean a garaunteed annuity paid by your employer; these are very rare these days. Most have 401K accounts which are funds invested by the employee (before federal tax is taken), often matched by employer contributions. Most have their 401k money in stock market mutual funds (and took considerable punishment recently as a result). Social Security is generally only enough for slow starvation.

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    Ilion
    wrote on last edited by
    #9

    Rob Graham wrote:

    Basically a Ponzi scheme where benefits are paid to the

    Or, we might say that it's a Ponzi scheme in principle and welfare in implementation. edit: At least Ponzi (or Madoff) didn't hold a gun to anyone's head.

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    • I Ilion

      Rob Graham wrote:

      Basically a Ponzi scheme where benefits are paid to the

      Or, we might say that it's a Ponzi scheme in principle and welfare in implementation. edit: At least Ponzi (or Madoff) didn't hold a gun to anyone's head.

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      Rob Graham
      wrote on last edited by
      #10

      No, I would say that it's welfare by design (since the benefit is only loosely related to the amount contributed, and includes disability insurance as well as the retirement benefit) and a Ponzi scheme in practice, since any excess collections were converted to "Special" treasury bonds, and the cash funneled off to the general expenditure fund since Reagan's time. In the next half decade, along with everything else that's gone wrong, we get the social security collections falling below the money obligated to pay out. Who knows where the money to liquidate all those "special" t-bonds is coming from, I'm betting we just print it, which should inflate the currency quite nicely.

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      • R Rob Graham

        No, I would say that it's welfare by design (since the benefit is only loosely related to the amount contributed, and includes disability insurance as well as the retirement benefit) and a Ponzi scheme in practice, since any excess collections were converted to "Special" treasury bonds, and the cash funneled off to the general expenditure fund since Reagan's time. In the next half decade, along with everything else that's gone wrong, we get the social security collections falling below the money obligated to pay out. Who knows where the money to liquidate all those "special" t-bonds is coming from, I'm betting we just print it, which should inflate the currency quite nicely.

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        Oakman
        wrote on last edited by
        #11

        Rob Graham wrote:

        In the next half decade, along with everything else that's gone wrong, we get the social security collections falling below the money obligated to pay out.

        But we don't have to worry - after all the Trust Fund holds 40% of the Public Debt - with that many treasury notes, it'll keep paying out full tilt till mid-century at least (and a lot of us will be dead, by then.) Really, we don't have to worry. Really. Do we? :~

        Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

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        • O Oakman

          Rob Graham wrote:

          In the next half decade, along with everything else that's gone wrong, we get the social security collections falling below the money obligated to pay out.

          But we don't have to worry - after all the Trust Fund holds 40% of the Public Debt - with that many treasury notes, it'll keep paying out full tilt till mid-century at least (and a lot of us will be dead, by then.) Really, we don't have to worry. Really. Do we? :~

          Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

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          Rob Graham
          wrote on last edited by
          #12

          Who liquidates those treasury notes? The folks that borrowed the money (i.e. the Federal Government)? Where do they get the cash to pay for the bonds? Borrow from who? Tax who?

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          • R Rob Graham

            Who liquidates those treasury notes? The folks that borrowed the money (i.e. the Federal Government)? Where do they get the cash to pay for the bonds? Borrow from who? Tax who?

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            Oakman
            wrote on last edited by
            #13

            Rob Graham wrote:

            Where do they get the cash to pay for the bonds? Borrow from who? Tax who?

            No, that's not a problem. Oh pshaw! We'll just sell more bonds to the Saudis and the Chinese. Then we'll use that money to pay off this debt and then next month we'll use our Discover Card to pay off the Visa, and the month after that. . . See? Be Happy. Don't Worry!

            Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

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            • O Oakman

              Rob Graham wrote:

              Where do they get the cash to pay for the bonds? Borrow from who? Tax who?

              No, that's not a problem. Oh pshaw! We'll just sell more bonds to the Saudis and the Chinese. Then we'll use that money to pay off this debt and then next month we'll use our Discover Card to pay off the Visa, and the month after that. . . See? Be Happy. Don't Worry!

              Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

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              Rob Graham
              wrote on last edited by
              #14

              I Know! The Strategic Oil reserve! by 2050 it'll be worth a gazillion! We'll sell to everyone who's out of oil so they can run their cars...

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              • R Rob Graham

                I Know! The Strategic Oil reserve! by 2050 it'll be worth a gazillion! We'll sell to everyone who's out of oil so they can run their cars...

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                Oakman
                wrote on last edited by
                #15

                Rob Graham wrote:

                We'll sell to everyone who's out of oil so they can run live in their cars...

                Fixed that for you.

                Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

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                • E Ed Gadziemski

                  Congratulations! What's loaded on your Kindle?

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                  Mike Gaskey
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #16

                  Ed, I'm not sure you'll get this or not, but: 1. book on poker odds (I've decided to excel at Texas Hold'em - dry, but interesting 2. Catholic bible 3. 3 novels by a relatively new author (Charlie Hutson) finished the first, on the second - 1st was good, second ditto 4. a novel called, "Beat the Reaper" - good book 5. a novel by Brad Thor - not started yet 6. a novel called, "Poker Slam" - good book I'll soon need a refill

                  Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

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                  • C Christian Graus

                    Congratulations. Social Security in the US means the money your employer put into a fund, right ? What does a pension mean ? Here they are the same thing, Social Security are the government department that pays pensions to people on welfare, including the old age pension, although we have all got compulsory superannuation which is how our bosses give us money to retire on b/c the government doesn't want to do it anymore.

                    Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

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                    Mike Gaskey
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #17

                    Christian the way it works is the employee "contributes" 7% of their salary up to a maximum salary f maybe 95,000 and the employer does the same. that theoretically funds this "benefit" an employer pension is in effect the purchase of an annuity. in addition to the above, I also have a relatively godly amount in 401k and mutual fund monies. these aren't in the best of shape right now, but I'm still in good shape overall as I've accumulated a fair amount of cash that I an rely on until the market turns around

                    Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

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                    • M Mike Gaskey

                      sounds like there's been a lot of fun here the last couple of days. Here I sit on a lanai, sipping kona, amazed at the fuss. fyi - Maui is my retirement celebration: 2 weeks of sun and relaxation before I start relaxng as a way of life. relaxation of couse premised on a steady income from: a pension, social security and a (still) working wife. My Kindle is fuly loaded, the sun is a joy. ya'll have fun.

                      Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

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                      Tim Craig
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #18

                      I recommend the snorkeling at Makulei'a Bay in West Maui and La Perouse Bay on the South East Side.

                      "Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke

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                      • M Mike Gaskey

                        Ed, I'm not sure you'll get this or not, but: 1. book on poker odds (I've decided to excel at Texas Hold'em - dry, but interesting 2. Catholic bible 3. 3 novels by a relatively new author (Charlie Hutson) finished the first, on the second - 1st was good, second ditto 4. a novel called, "Beat the Reaper" - good book 5. a novel by Brad Thor - not started yet 6. a novel called, "Poker Slam" - good book I'll soon need a refill

                        Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

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                        Ed Gadziemski
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #19

                        Mike Gaskey wrote:

                        Catholic bible

                        Always a good choice. I read mine cover to cover a few times in my youth.

                        Mike Gaskey wrote:

                        3 novels by a relatively new author (Charlie Hutson)

                        His crime or his vampire series?

                        Mike Gaskey wrote:

                        I've decided to excel at Texas Hold'em - dry, but interesting

                        I gave up on poker after my Grandma wiped me out. She was an old-school Polish card shark and didn't cut any slack for punk 7 year olds like me.

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