A fool-proof plan for economic recovery: [modified]

Ed Gadziemski · modified on Friday, March 6, 2009 5:10 PM

They all sound good. Thanks for making this proposal.

Synaptrik · modified on Friday, March 6, 2009 5:10 PM

For the first 200 years of this country's history; were they being protectionist by having the tariffs that were removed in the 80s? Did we have a stable economy before this happened? Has our economy become more stable as a result of Free Trade? I'm assuming you are supportive of NAFTA et al. Of course, you are free to dismiss this out of hand by displaying an facetious and extremely exaggerated example of what I'm talking about. And do you consider retail jobs at Wal Mart a suitable replacement for manufacturing jobs where we actually create something that is used?

This statement is false

Chris Austin · modified on Friday, March 6, 2009 5:10 PM

Ilíon wrote:

Seventh, let's further "protect" "American jobs" by making it all but impossible for citizens of the USA to buy and sell goods and services with citizens of other nations.

What leads you to opine that something detrimental to selling services is in the works? I ask since I just scheduled a trip to S. Korea in April to finalize a service agreement with a customer. This not our first rodeo and I have not been made personally aware of any new issues.

Ilíon wrote:

Eighth, let's further "protect" "[insert your State's name] jobs" by making it all but impossible for citizens of our State to buy and sell goods and services with citizens of other States.

Same question as above. About a quarter of our clients are in CA but we are based in TX.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

Yusuf

lol, you take what he said seriously? :laugh:

Yusuf

Chris Austin

He generally takes what he says seriously. I am just asking about the source of the cynicism. [Edit] In case I was not subtle enough, I was attempting to point out that his fear is not matching my experience.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

Synaptrik

I'm fairly certain that his concern is a facetious rebuke to my post about protectionism and tariffs.

This statement is false

Ilion

Chris Austin wrote:

What leads you to opine that something detrimental to selling services is in the works?

Just following the "logic" already in motion ... and pointing out where that "logic" must lead.

Chris Austin

I made the mistake of not reading the threads below. So, I thought that you were lampooning the bailout. Now, I see where it was going. Cheers.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

Chris Austin

Good. Because our problem isn't countervailing tariffs, it's the walmart consumer mindset. The reason we have had to outsource to cheaper labor markets is because our consumers want cheap shit now regardless if it means that people will essentially be working as serfs in huge manufacturing campuses. Here they make almost nothing while paying their employers to eat and sleep in their facilities. Don't believe me, head to Thailand, S. Korea and China and visit the manufacturing sites.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

Synaptrik

Chris Austin wrote:

Because our problem isn't countervailing tariffs, it's the walmart consumer mindset.

And, you don't see a relationship between the two? They consume because its available. I don't remember America being held hostage to consumerism. We weren't forced to move to this model. It was thrust upon us by Reagan and Clinton. Put the tariffs back in place and watch the cheap manufacturing sites whither. You're validating my point really.

This statement is false

Stan Shannon

Synaptrik wrote:

Put the tariffs back in place and watch the cheap manufacturing sites whither.

:laugh: ... and the expensive domestic manufacturing sites grow.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Chris Austin

Synaptrik wrote:

And, you don't see a relationship between the two?

Of course I do, it's simple supply and demand.

Synaptrik wrote:

It was thrust upon us by Reagan and Clinton.

Not that I agree with your thesis but Try Nixon. It was under his administration that this whole thing really picked up speed. He moved us to a fiat currency and his agriculture policies started the rise of the huge agribusiness conglomerates that now dominate our food supply.

Synaptrik wrote:

hey consume because its available.

I see you slept through Economics 101. There wouldn't be a supply if there wasn't a demand. It's the same reason the boneheads in D.C. will never win the 'war on drugs'. It's pointless to attack the supply without addressing the demand. US based manufacturing would not have headed to Mexico and then China, and now Thailand and other cheap labor markets had there not been market demand for cheaper shit. Do you realize how much it costs to build a manufacturing plant...billions of dollars; billions. You think people that are making money hand over fist as a result of this are stupid enough to invest that kind of money if there wasn't a demand? You want manufacturing back into this country? Then be willing to pay for it. Don't complain when you have to pay an extra $200 for a computer monitor.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

modified on Friday, March 6, 2009 9:01 PM

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

... and the expensive domestic manufacturing sites grow.

Now you're getting it!

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Oakman · modified on Friday, March 6, 2009 9:01 PM

Chris Austin wrote:

Don't complain when you have to pay an extra $200 for a computer monitor.

For one that would last twice as long? No problemo.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Chris Austin

Oakman wrote:

For one that would last twice as long? No problemo.

Hell yeah. I still watch TV on a 13 year old Sony that hasn't begun to show signs of having issues. I think we paid what seemed a ridiculous sum at the time for it. But, it has proven to be worth every penny. We really need to get past the pennies per unit shipped profit mindset. It relies way to much on the idea of continued growth.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

Oakman

Chris Austin wrote:

Hell yeah. I still watch TV on a 13 year old Sony

Yep. There really have been only two reasons to throw out your old TV: Color, and High Def. Of course, for some folks, size matters.

Chris Austin wrote:

We really need to get past the pennies per unit shipped profit mindset. It relies way to much on the idea of continued growth.

And stop buying throw-away goods, whether they are American-made or foreign. Hell, I wouldn't mind if we held onto operating systems and development platforms for more than three years at a time. I wonder how long it'll be before someone says we can get peanuts so much cheaper by importing them south of the border, and processing them with illegals in sweatshops.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Synaptrik · modified on Friday, March 6, 2009 9:01 PM

Chris Austin wrote:

I see you slept through Economics 101. There wouldn't be a supply if there wasn't a demand.

Which really brings us back to my main point. That an economy is driven by demand, which equates to labor, which needs a manufacturing base to really thrive.

Chris Austin wrote:

You want manufacturing back into this country? Then be willing to pay for it. Don't complain when you have to pay an extra $200 for a computer monitor.

I've never complained about it. And I usually opt for quality over quantity before evaluating price.

This statement is false

Ilion

Chris Austin wrote:

Now, I see where it was going. Cheers.

It seems to me that you don't yet see[^].

Lost User

Oakman wrote:

throw-away goods

If you are private individual, you are going to want that item to last as long as it can unless you are the type which demands the latest greatest thing the moment it is released. Quality is important but quality is expensive to design and manufacture. Take a television, made with quality parts and quality manufacturing principles will last an awfully lot longer than a television assembled with cheaper parts and production techniques where quality assurance is an afterthought. Thus the later TV will attract a lower price at the retailer but its life will be short in comparison to the expensive higher quality make/model. And to the time when it fails, often it is cheaper to replace rather than repair. And landfill sites fill with such stuff and the problems continue. Regarding corporations and businesses in general, any object is an asset, they use a depreciated value of an object so that after a period of time the depreciated value of the asset becomes £nil or very close to £nil and is tax efficient to replace. So 5 years for a piece of office equipment and 3 years for a motor vehicle is the norm in this accounting practice. And more so if the objects are subjected to some leasehold agreement as the decision to replace is taken out of your hands.

Stan Shannon

Yes, and they will grow until we can no longer afford our own manufactured goods. ANd the end result will be exactly the same thing.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.