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  4. Having one of those Silly discussions. [modified]

Having one of those Silly discussions. [modified]

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  • C Offline
    C Offline
    Chris Austin
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    I am having what I think to be one of the silliest discussions I have ever had with a client's legal and non-technical management. It's about code ownership and licensing. I agree completely with them that they own and should own every line of code and comment that they pay us to write. But, and this is the reason they hired us, we have an existing code base that will be used in the project as it's core. I am guessing I will just have go around them/over their heads and get the engineering lead who made the decision to use our services into the discussion. I hate doing that since I like to treat everybody (and be treated) as an adult. But, this silliness is just taking up too much time and it's incredibly annoying that people are this obtuse. This may not be controversial enough for the "Back Room" but I'd thought I get this little rant off my chest. [Edit] It's been handled. The lead engineer called along with the manager to make nice so we can get started on Monday. Thank goodness, I am hopping on a plane to S. Korea Tuesday morning; one thing I don't have to worry about.

    Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

    modified on Thursday, April 2, 2009 4:06 PM

    M O S 3 Replies Last reply
    0
    • C Chris Austin

      I am having what I think to be one of the silliest discussions I have ever had with a client's legal and non-technical management. It's about code ownership and licensing. I agree completely with them that they own and should own every line of code and comment that they pay us to write. But, and this is the reason they hired us, we have an existing code base that will be used in the project as it's core. I am guessing I will just have go around them/over their heads and get the engineering lead who made the decision to use our services into the discussion. I hate doing that since I like to treat everybody (and be treated) as an adult. But, this silliness is just taking up too much time and it's incredibly annoying that people are this obtuse. This may not be controversial enough for the "Back Room" but I'd thought I get this little rant off my chest. [Edit] It's been handled. The lead engineer called along with the manager to make nice so we can get started on Monday. Thank goodness, I am hopping on a plane to S. Korea Tuesday morning; one thing I don't have to worry about.

      Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

      modified on Thursday, April 2, 2009 4:06 PM

      M Offline
      M Offline
      Mike Gaskey
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Chris Austin wrote:

      I agree completely with them that they own and should own every line of code and comment that they pay us to write.

      When I've been in your position my company's approach was always, you (well, we) own the marketing rights to code developed and can reuse for future clients - that is unless they pay a premium for exclusive use (I've used 20% premium in the past).

      Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

      C 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • M Mike Gaskey

        Chris Austin wrote:

        I agree completely with them that they own and should own every line of code and comment that they pay us to write.

        When I've been in your position my company's approach was always, you (well, we) own the marketing rights to code developed and can reuse for future clients - that is unless they pay a premium for exclusive use (I've used 20% premium in the past).

        Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

        C Offline
        C Offline
        Chris Austin
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        It's a great idea. I am sure once the tech lead on the project has a talk with them the issue will go away but I'll put this in my back pocket in case we need it. It is really surprising since this is the second time we worked on a project with these guys. [Edit] Thanks.

        Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • C Chris Austin

          I am having what I think to be one of the silliest discussions I have ever had with a client's legal and non-technical management. It's about code ownership and licensing. I agree completely with them that they own and should own every line of code and comment that they pay us to write. But, and this is the reason they hired us, we have an existing code base that will be used in the project as it's core. I am guessing I will just have go around them/over their heads and get the engineering lead who made the decision to use our services into the discussion. I hate doing that since I like to treat everybody (and be treated) as an adult. But, this silliness is just taking up too much time and it's incredibly annoying that people are this obtuse. This may not be controversial enough for the "Back Room" but I'd thought I get this little rant off my chest. [Edit] It's been handled. The lead engineer called along with the manager to make nice so we can get started on Monday. Thank goodness, I am hopping on a plane to S. Korea Tuesday morning; one thing I don't have to worry about.

          Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

          modified on Thursday, April 2, 2009 4:06 PM

          O Offline
          O Offline
          Oakman
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          :omg: Back in 2002, I was convincing a large company to switch to .NET. I got Microsoft to agree to provide, for free, a team that would train some of the company's devs in .NET and co-write a major project with them. In return, The company would agree to be one of the written up conversion examples Microsoft was featuring on its site back then. The lawyers of this company, halfway through the negotiations, decided that not only should the company own the code base for this joint application, but the code base for .NET as well. :wtf: :omg: :wtf: Run of the mill lawyers understand software like fish understand farming.

          Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

          C 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • O Oakman

            :omg: Back in 2002, I was convincing a large company to switch to .NET. I got Microsoft to agree to provide, for free, a team that would train some of the company's devs in .NET and co-write a major project with them. In return, The company would agree to be one of the written up conversion examples Microsoft was featuring on its site back then. The lawyers of this company, halfway through the negotiations, decided that not only should the company own the code base for this joint application, but the code base for .NET as well. :wtf: :omg: :wtf: Run of the mill lawyers understand software like fish understand farming.

            Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

            C Offline
            C Offline
            Chris Austin
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Oakman wrote:

            The lawyers of this company, halfway through the negotiations, decided that not only should the company own the code base for this joint application, but the code base for .NET as well.

            Now that is classic. The engineering manager has assured me it will be handled today. Thank goodness for sanity.

            Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

            O 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • C Chris Austin

              Oakman wrote:

              The lawyers of this company, halfway through the negotiations, decided that not only should the company own the code base for this joint application, but the code base for .NET as well.

              Now that is classic. The engineering manager has assured me it will be handled today. Thank goodness for sanity.

              Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

              O Offline
              O Offline
              Oakman
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Chris Austin wrote:

              The engineering manager has assured me it will be handled today

              The advantages of working with a smaller, more technically oriented company. In my case no-one with any technical background was every questioned by the lawyers. Only the head of the division (She had moved over from Marketing as part of getting her ticket punched so she could move up in the hierarchy.) "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers!" ~ Shakespeare.

              Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

              M 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • C Chris Austin

                I am having what I think to be one of the silliest discussions I have ever had with a client's legal and non-technical management. It's about code ownership and licensing. I agree completely with them that they own and should own every line of code and comment that they pay us to write. But, and this is the reason they hired us, we have an existing code base that will be used in the project as it's core. I am guessing I will just have go around them/over their heads and get the engineering lead who made the decision to use our services into the discussion. I hate doing that since I like to treat everybody (and be treated) as an adult. But, this silliness is just taking up too much time and it's incredibly annoying that people are this obtuse. This may not be controversial enough for the "Back Room" but I'd thought I get this little rant off my chest. [Edit] It's been handled. The lead engineer called along with the manager to make nice so we can get started on Monday. Thank goodness, I am hopping on a plane to S. Korea Tuesday morning; one thing I don't have to worry about.

                Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

                modified on Thursday, April 2, 2009 4:06 PM

                S Offline
                S Offline
                Synaptrik
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Setup a licensing agreement for the base code that you've already invested resources into that they didn't pay for. I'm going through the same scenario on a side project of mine. They own the code that's specific to their application and license the base.

                Chris Austin wrote:

                This may not be controversial enough for the "Back Room" but I'd thought I get this little rant off my chest.

                The backroom has no qualifiers for posting.... ;)

                This statement is false

                O C 2 Replies Last reply
                0
                • S Synaptrik

                  Setup a licensing agreement for the base code that you've already invested resources into that they didn't pay for. I'm going through the same scenario on a side project of mine. They own the code that's specific to their application and license the base.

                  Chris Austin wrote:

                  This may not be controversial enough for the "Back Room" but I'd thought I get this little rant off my chest.

                  The backroom has no qualifiers for posting.... ;)

                  This statement is false

                  O Offline
                  O Offline
                  Oakman
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Synaptrik wrote:

                  The backroom has no qualifiers for posting

                  How about owning a pair of brass balls? Or at least balls - notice how all the chicks took flight?

                  Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                  S 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • S Synaptrik

                    Setup a licensing agreement for the base code that you've already invested resources into that they didn't pay for. I'm going through the same scenario on a side project of mine. They own the code that's specific to their application and license the base.

                    Chris Austin wrote:

                    This may not be controversial enough for the "Back Room" but I'd thought I get this little rant off my chest.

                    The backroom has no qualifiers for posting.... ;)

                    This statement is false

                    C Offline
                    C Offline
                    Chris Austin
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Synaptrik wrote:

                    Setup a licensing agreement for the base code that you've already invested resources into that they didn't pay for.

                    That's what got this whole thing started. But, as updated it has been handled by the man in charge.

                    Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

                    S 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • O Oakman

                      Chris Austin wrote:

                      The engineering manager has assured me it will be handled today

                      The advantages of working with a smaller, more technically oriented company. In my case no-one with any technical background was every questioned by the lawyers. Only the head of the division (She had moved over from Marketing as part of getting her ticket punched so she could move up in the hierarchy.) "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers!" ~ Shakespeare.

                      Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                      M Offline
                      M Offline
                      MidwestLimey
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Oakman wrote:

                      "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers!" ~ Shakespeare.

                      But if you kill all the lawyers, who do you get to defend you on the homocide changes?

                      10110011001111101010101000001000001101001010001010100000100000101000001000111100010110001011001011

                      O 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • M MidwestLimey

                        Oakman wrote:

                        "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers!" ~ Shakespeare.

                        But if you kill all the lawyers, who do you get to defend you on the homocide changes?

                        10110011001111101010101000001000001101001010001010100000100000101000001000111100010110001011001011

                        O Offline
                        O Offline
                        Oakman
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        MidwestLimey wrote:

                        But if you kill all the lawyers, who do you get to defend you

                        The firm of Colt, Smith and Wesson. :-D

                        Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                        C 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • O Oakman

                          Synaptrik wrote:

                          The backroom has no qualifiers for posting

                          How about owning a pair of brass balls? Or at least balls - notice how all the chicks took flight?

                          Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                          S Offline
                          S Offline
                          Synaptrik
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Ok, I should have added some qualifiers... balls being one, or at least the facsimile there of, the Tigress has been here since the changeover. And.... it requires some thick skin. Bark-like even.

                          This statement is false

                          O 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • C Chris Austin

                            Synaptrik wrote:

                            Setup a licensing agreement for the base code that you've already invested resources into that they didn't pay for.

                            That's what got this whole thing started. But, as updated it has been handled by the man in charge.

                            Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

                            S Offline
                            S Offline
                            Synaptrik
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Good news then. One of the darker sides of our field.

                            This statement is false

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • S Synaptrik

                              Ok, I should have added some qualifiers... balls being one, or at least the facsimile there of, the Tigress has been here since the changeover. And.... it requires some thick skin. Bark-like even.

                              This statement is false

                              O Offline
                              O Offline
                              Oakman
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Synaptrik wrote:

                              the Tigress has been here since the changeover.

                              Are you sure? :confused: Although that doesn't necessarily mean I was wrong. I'd never call her a "chick," and her balls, though metaphoric, are quite brazen.

                              Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                              S 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • O Oakman

                                MidwestLimey wrote:

                                But if you kill all the lawyers, who do you get to defend you

                                The firm of Colt, Smith and Wesson. :-D

                                Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                                C Offline
                                C Offline
                                Chris Austin
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                How did I know you would answer with that?

                                Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

                                O 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • C Chris Austin

                                  How did I know you would answer with that?

                                  Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

                                  O Offline
                                  O Offline
                                  Oakman
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Chris Austin wrote:

                                  How did I know you would answer with that?

                                  :omg: Am I that predictable? Sigh. Well, tie me down, call me Troy, and spank me.

                                  Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • O Oakman

                                    Synaptrik wrote:

                                    the Tigress has been here since the changeover.

                                    Are you sure? :confused: Although that doesn't necessarily mean I was wrong. I'd never call her a "chick," and her balls, though metaphoric, are quite brazen.

                                    Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                                    S Offline
                                    S Offline
                                    Synaptrik
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    She made an appearance. And... your point is well taken. heh

                                    This statement is false

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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