The diminishing power of "boo" words
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Oakman wrote:
I find it ludicrous that a person who has never paid taxes in his life
I've paid my taxes dumbass I've worked most of the time since I was 18. But whatever its not like you matter.
Intel 4004 wrote:
I've paid my taxes
You may have had some taken out, but most of the jobs you listed as having done in your life are paid for in cash and not reported by the payer or the payee. It's highly unlikely, if you had sense to file, that you didn't get back everything your maight have had taken out when you worked as a short-order cook.
Intel 4004 wrote:
its not like you matter
You and Ilion want need to believe that, don't you. :laugh:
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Ilíon wrote:
Oh, do you mean something like how 'racist' and 'fascist' and 'nazi' are now meaningless?
I don't know about racist and nazi. But fascist has certainly lost it's meaning now that the RushBots and the BeckBots are shouting them on cue after having ignored the previous decade's fascism.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
Chris Austin wrote:
But fascist has certainly lost it's meaning now that the RushBots and the BeckBots are shouting them on cue after having ignored the previous decade's fascism.
The previous decade had nothing to do with fascism (well, not until about the last few months of it anyway ). The problem is that you simply buy into the collectivist definitions of fascism. The United States is a full blown fascist society now.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Intel 4004 wrote:
I've paid my taxes
You may have had some taken out, but most of the jobs you listed as having done in your life are paid for in cash and not reported by the payer or the payee. It's highly unlikely, if you had sense to file, that you didn't get back everything your maight have had taken out when you worked as a short-order cook.
Intel 4004 wrote:
its not like you matter
You and Ilion want need to believe that, don't you. :laugh:
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
but most of the jobs you listed as having done in your life are paid for in cash
Most of my life I've worked regular jobs and I've filed and paid my taxes, I get SOME back, I don't get SS & Medicaid and local taxes back which take up more than any other tax. You seem to be on the computer 24x7 What do you do?
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It used to be in the US that calling someone a liberal was a significant political indictment, but that word seems to have lost its power. So Republicans upped the ante, and now characterize as "socialist" anyone who thinks the income tax rate on the rich should be a couple of percent higher. There are even some crazies who promiscuously throw around the word "Marxist" to describe anyone to the left of center. However, such debasing of the language can ultimately be self-defeating. Words lose their power to frighten. This Rasmussen report shows this is happening. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/just_53_say_capitalism_better_than_socialism[^]
John Carson
So you admit than that you, Obama and the democrats have been pushing socialism all along just as I have always claimed?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Oakman wrote:
but most of the jobs you listed as having done in your life are paid for in cash
Most of my life I've worked regular jobs and I've filed and paid my taxes, I get SOME back, I don't get SS & Medicaid and local taxes back which take up more than any other tax. You seem to be on the computer 24x7 What do you do?
Intel 4004 wrote:
I don't get SS & Medicaid and local taxes back which take up more than any other tax.
SS and Medicare, in theory, are not taxes, but involuntary contributions to retirement and health funds you can draw against when needed. Since you were talking about federal taxes, I never considered state or local taxes. Was it state taxes you were talking about while bitching about the federal reserve?
Intel 4004 wrote:
You seem to be on the computer 24x7 What do you do?
Game design and programming. I am being funded by a couple of believers/investors and am working on a MMRPG. Sometimes it feels like I am working 24/7, but in fact I doubt I put in more'n 65 hours a week. These little breaks I take keep me sane. And what do you do all day, besides surf the net?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Chris Austin wrote:
But fascist has certainly lost it's meaning now that the RushBots and the BeckBots are shouting them on cue after having ignored the previous decade's fascism.
The previous decade had nothing to do with fascism (well, not until about the last few months of it anyway ). The problem is that you simply buy into the collectivist definitions of fascism. The United States is a full blown fascist society now.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
The problem is that you simply buy into the collectivist definitions of fascism. The United States is a full blown fascist society now.
This is, of course, because any definition of fascism must have as its last clause, "unless the preceding politico-economic practices are put into place by someone Stan Shannon approves of in which case the proper term is 'Jeffersonianism'"
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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So you admit than that you, Obama and the democrats have been pushing socialism all along just as I have always claimed?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
So you admit than that you, Obama and the democrats have been pushing socialism
Stan, did you forget that John is an Australian? He doesn't work with the Democrats or in tandem with Obama, at all. . .ever. There is no way he could admit they he and they were ever doing anything together. (New World Order conspiracies not withstanding.)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Intel 4004 wrote:
I don't get SS & Medicaid and local taxes back which take up more than any other tax.
SS and Medicare, in theory, are not taxes, but involuntary contributions to retirement and health funds you can draw against when needed. Since you were talking about federal taxes, I never considered state or local taxes. Was it state taxes you were talking about while bitching about the federal reserve?
Intel 4004 wrote:
You seem to be on the computer 24x7 What do you do?
Game design and programming. I am being funded by a couple of believers/investors and am working on a MMRPG. Sometimes it feels like I am working 24/7, but in fact I doubt I put in more'n 65 hours a week. These little breaks I take keep me sane. And what do you do all day, besides surf the net?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Game design and programming.
Oakman wrote:
And what do you do all day
Well I used to do exactly that, I'd spend all day from sun up to sun up writing AI algorithms, reading my programming books, and just plain having fun developing a game of some sort. I never got paid because it is a hobby so my dad thought I was wasting my time. Now I spend my time figuring out how I can make money through some kind of business. I am thinking about what I can do to get around 500-800 a month from ad revenue online. Perhaps if I can create a high traffic cluster of websites I could inject my own advertisements for my own software. I have an excellent idea for a game which I believe would be fun and rewarding to play. I won't mention it here because I don't want anyone to steal my idea. If I can make it the ad revenue would be tremendous if it gained popularity.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
The problem is that you simply buy into the collectivist definitions of fascism. The United States is a full blown fascist society now.
This is, of course, because any definition of fascism must have as its last clause, "unless the preceding politico-economic practices are put into place by someone Stan Shannon approves of in which case the proper term is 'Jeffersonianism'"
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Not at all. Fascism is defined by the institutions of a society being coopted by the government to promote a collectivist agenda defined by a central political authority. Jeffersonianism is the exact opposite, where the social agenda is defined by individuals participating equally at local levels of government to define the parameters of their society. You can try to redefine those terms all you like, but that is what they mean.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
So you admit than that you, Obama and the democrats have been pushing socialism
Stan, did you forget that John is an Australian? He doesn't work with the Democrats or in tandem with Obama, at all. . .ever. There is no way he could admit they he and they were ever doing anything together. (New World Order conspiracies not withstanding.)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Stan, did you forget that John is an Australian? He doesn't work with the Democrats or in tandem with Obama, at all. . .ever. There is no way he could admit they he and they were ever doing anything together. (New World Order conspiracies not withstanding.)
I'm not forgeting anything. SOcialism has always been an international movement. John is simply proof that they all, in fact, do move in tandem politically.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Oakman wrote:
Game design and programming.
Oakman wrote:
And what do you do all day
Well I used to do exactly that, I'd spend all day from sun up to sun up writing AI algorithms, reading my programming books, and just plain having fun developing a game of some sort. I never got paid because it is a hobby so my dad thought I was wasting my time. Now I spend my time figuring out how I can make money through some kind of business. I am thinking about what I can do to get around 500-800 a month from ad revenue online. Perhaps if I can create a high traffic cluster of websites I could inject my own advertisements for my own software. I have an excellent idea for a game which I believe would be fun and rewarding to play. I won't mention it here because I don't want anyone to steal my idea. If I can make it the ad revenue would be tremendous if it gained popularity.
Intel 4004 wrote:
I won't mention it here because I don't want anyone to steal my idea.
Ideas are cheap and easy to come by. I cannot begin to count the number of times someone came up to me and said, "I have a great idea for a game. Let me tell it to you and then you design it, program it, and test it and I'll give you 40% of the profits." What's expensive and hard to find is knowledge, experience, and skill. You don't get those things by reading a book or thinking about how to make money. You definitely don't get them dumping chemicals into your system. And you don't get them by pissing everyone off, especially those who know more than you do. $500 @ month is chump change. Think in terms of $500 every four hours. 24/7.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Intel 4004 wrote:
I won't mention it here because I don't want anyone to steal my idea.
Ideas are cheap and easy to come by. I cannot begin to count the number of times someone came up to me and said, "I have a great idea for a game. Let me tell it to you and then you design it, program it, and test it and I'll give you 40% of the profits." What's expensive and hard to find is knowledge, experience, and skill. You don't get those things by reading a book or thinking about how to make money. You definitely don't get them dumping chemicals into your system. And you don't get them by pissing everyone off, especially those who know more than you do. $500 @ month is chump change. Think in terms of $500 every four hours. 24/7.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Not at all. Fascism is defined by the institutions of a society being coopted by the government to promote a collectivist agenda defined by a central political authority. Jeffersonianism is the exact opposite, where the social agenda is defined by individuals participating equally at local levels of government to define the parameters of their society. You can try to redefine those terms all you like, but that is what they mean.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Fascism is defined by the institutions of a society being coopted by the government to promote a collectivist agenda defined by a central political authority
Stan Shannon wrote:
Jeffersonianism is the exact opposite, where the social agenda is defined by individuals
Interesting. You define fascism as having a "collectivist agenda," by which i assume you mean a politico-economic one. But Jeffersonianism is defined by you as having a "social agenda" by which I take it you mean decisions about what is and is not politically correct. And then you go on to stress that this can only happen on 'the local level.' Accepting for the moment, your definitions lock, stock and barrel, it would appear that Jeffersonian Fascism is possible as would be Jeffersonian Socialism - at least on the local level. That proviso begs the question: what is the local level? Back in Jefferson's day Virgina was mostly wilderness and extended, iirc, all the way to Mississippi. Rhode Island, which is tucked into a tiny corner of seacoast and sandwiched between Massachusetts and Connecticut was considered to be days, even weeks away from Boston or Hartford. It made great good sense to think that Georgia being separated from New York by a journey of a month of more should be thought of as separate, just as Spain and Germany were separate and sovereign. Now, when one can travel from Maine to California in less time than it took Paul Revere to get from Boston to Concord, what is the local level? Elsewhere we've both posted about Star Trek. In that continuum, Mars is part of the local level. Yet you seem to put great faith in the more or less artificial divisions George III (and other politicians since him) drew on a map as if they somehow define a different species or at least a different breed.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Intel 4004 wrote:
I won't mention it here because I don't want anyone to steal my idea.
Ideas are cheap and easy to come by. I cannot begin to count the number of times someone came up to me and said, "I have a great idea for a game. Let me tell it to you and then you design it, program it, and test it and I'll give you 40% of the profits." What's expensive and hard to find is knowledge, experience, and skill. You don't get those things by reading a book or thinking about how to make money. You definitely don't get them dumping chemicals into your system. And you don't get them by pissing everyone off, especially those who know more than you do. $500 @ month is chump change. Think in terms of $500 every four hours. 24/7.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
You underestimate me far too much.
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This discussion is for people with jobs, people who pay tax. How do you have a vested interest ?
Intel 4004 wrote:
Lets say I buy a beer from a company that pays one of those rich bastards
So, people who are successful, are to be hated for it ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )
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Intel 4004 wrote:
Why shouldn't they?
The issue under discussion is labelling. You shouldn't use dramatically different labels for things that are only modestly different.
Intel 4004 wrote:
It would be better if everyone paid an equal share. In the end it all evens out anyways. Someone is paying their income, and that someone gets money from somewhere else and so on. Lets say I buy a beer from a company that pays one of those rich bastards, I end up contributing to his salary and ultimately contributing to the money he sends to the IRS.
Interpreted generously, you appear to be claiming that the post-tax distribution of income is the same regardless of the progressivity of the tax system because tax burdens get shifted by means of changes in salaries and prices. Please provide the proof. A Nobel Prize in economics awaits you.
John Carson
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Intel 4004 wrote:
It would be better if everyone paid an equal share.
With this you and I agree 100%. I find the idea of a graduated tax distasteful and see no logical means to justify it a society where people are supposed to be treated as equals and have the same opportunities.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
How do you reconcile the reality of how much infrastructure is used? Shouldn't taxation be relative to usage? A wealthy businessman depends on all of the social infrastructure paid by taxes more than lower class people do. All you have to consider is use of the court system to start. Police etc seem to be used more by the wealthy. Contract enforcement, copyright infringement, etc. I think taxation should be proportional to usage of the public commons.
This statement is false
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Intel 4004 wrote:
Yes but Oakhead & Co disagree so we must be wrong. :~
I never claimed to be right. But, my opinion is that the graduated tax code has lead to the incredible cruft and vaguely written rules in our tax code. Hell, I'll admit that as an owner of multiple business and someone who invests I pay far less in taxes than the published rate. It is the system and I'd be stupid not to understand it and to be as efficient as possible when it comes to it.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
Chris Austin wrote:
Hell, I'll admit that as an owner of multiple business and someone who invests I pay far less in taxes than the published rate.
Exactly. The loopholes need to be closed. I do agree that our taxcode is whacked.
This statement is false
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Intel 4004 wrote:
I won't mention it here because I don't want anyone to steal my idea.
Ideas are cheap and easy to come by. I cannot begin to count the number of times someone came up to me and said, "I have a great idea for a game. Let me tell it to you and then you design it, program it, and test it and I'll give you 40% of the profits." What's expensive and hard to find is knowledge, experience, and skill. You don't get those things by reading a book or thinking about how to make money. You definitely don't get them dumping chemicals into your system. And you don't get them by pissing everyone off, especially those who know more than you do. $500 @ month is chump change. Think in terms of $500 every four hours. 24/7.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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How do you reconcile the reality of how much infrastructure is used? Shouldn't taxation be relative to usage? A wealthy businessman depends on all of the social infrastructure paid by taxes more than lower class people do. All you have to consider is use of the court system to start. Police etc seem to be used more by the wealthy. Contract enforcement, copyright infringement, etc. I think taxation should be proportional to usage of the public commons.
This statement is false
Synaptrik wrote:
Shouldn't taxation be relative to usage?
Shouldn't you be arguing for a usage tax rather than an income tax that does not treat all taxpayers in a uniform manner?
Synaptrik wrote:
A wealthy businessman depends on all of the social infrastructure paid by taxes more than lower class people do.
I don't think I am convinced. The business man is taxed every step of the way. He has to pay taxes on products he uses, office equipment, land, property, vehicles, fuel tax to move those vehicles. So on and so on. As a business owner, it seems I can't take a breath without paying some kind of tax.
Synaptrik wrote:
All you have to consider is use of the court system to start.
Criminal or civil? I don't know the statistic so I wont say this is a fact but I doubt that middle class or better off people are clogging up the criminal system.
Synaptrik wrote:
Police etc seem to be used more by the wealthy.
Are they? How often is a police car needed to head out to a wealthy person's house versus a crack house?
Synaptrik wrote:
I think taxation should be proportional to usage of the public commons.
Then how would a poor person get food, free training, job placement assistance, heath care for their children? As they are using far more resources than a middle class American. So, if I take my children to a park or lake less often would I get a tax break under your plan?
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell