Finally listened to the news
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So, I finally gave in and listened a little bit to the news last night when I was driving home from a meeting. The story they were talking about was a letter of cooperation the Health Care Industry had sent the president. My immediate cynical thought was that of course they would take a "proactive" stance in the face of an oncoming train. But, after having a good bowel movement this afternoon I had an idea on the matter. I don't know if it is any good so I thought I'd toss it out amongst the wild :) and see how it stands. What if every employer in the US who currently pays for health care were to announce that in 18 months they would no longer be contributing to health care for employees? Would we see health care become affordable to a middle income family without the contribution of the employer? Or, would the groundswell be so great that we'd rush quickly into a single payer type of system? Personally, I think our current system has some advantages but also some obvious nonsense due to what seems like apparent collusion between the insurers and the care providers. For example when my son was born we received an invoice that included a line item of $23 for an aspirin. And, having worked for the unethical bastards at an insurance company I'd love to see their lobby power get taken down a bit.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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So, I finally gave in and listened a little bit to the news last night when I was driving home from a meeting. The story they were talking about was a letter of cooperation the Health Care Industry had sent the president. My immediate cynical thought was that of course they would take a "proactive" stance in the face of an oncoming train. But, after having a good bowel movement this afternoon I had an idea on the matter. I don't know if it is any good so I thought I'd toss it out amongst the wild :) and see how it stands. What if every employer in the US who currently pays for health care were to announce that in 18 months they would no longer be contributing to health care for employees? Would we see health care become affordable to a middle income family without the contribution of the employer? Or, would the groundswell be so great that we'd rush quickly into a single payer type of system? Personally, I think our current system has some advantages but also some obvious nonsense due to what seems like apparent collusion between the insurers and the care providers. For example when my son was born we received an invoice that included a line item of $23 for an aspirin. And, having worked for the unethical bastards at an insurance company I'd love to see their lobby power get taken down a bit.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
The cure for the American health care system is very simple - get rid of the insurance companies altogether along with all government programs. Let the doctors, clinics and hospitals manage their own subscription service for people precisely the way the health insurance industry does. That would eliminate all of the over paid insurance industry corporate executives and thousands of over paid government bureaucrats. The medical industry would have to compete directly in a free market for their customers, which would keep prices down. The charitable instincts of a still largely christian American society would be more than sufficient to pay for the care of the few who could not afford their own care. It would work perfectly if only it were allowed to.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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The cure for the American health care system is very simple - get rid of the insurance companies altogether along with all government programs. Let the doctors, clinics and hospitals manage their own subscription service for people precisely the way the health insurance industry does. That would eliminate all of the over paid insurance industry corporate executives and thousands of over paid government bureaucrats. The medical industry would have to compete directly in a free market for their customers, which would keep prices down. The charitable instincts of a still largely christian American society would be more than sufficient to pay for the care of the few who could not afford their own care. It would work perfectly if only it were allowed to.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
get rid of the insurance companies altogether
By force? I mean, if I want to guarantee you that I will pay for your health care if you get sick, as long as you pay me money every week until then, will you stick me in jail?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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The cure for the American health care system is very simple - get rid of the insurance companies altogether along with all government programs. Let the doctors, clinics and hospitals manage their own subscription service for people precisely the way the health insurance industry does. That would eliminate all of the over paid insurance industry corporate executives and thousands of over paid government bureaucrats. The medical industry would have to compete directly in a free market for their customers, which would keep prices down. The charitable instincts of a still largely christian American society would be more than sufficient to pay for the care of the few who could not afford their own care. It would work perfectly if only it were allowed to.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Let the doctors, clinics and hospitals manage their own subscription service for people precisely the way the health insurance industry does.
This is a fine ideal but, I am sure they will outsource it to people who "have decades of experience in handling patient billings and claims".
Stan Shannon wrote:
It would work perfectly if only it were allowed to.
I don't think that entropy can ever be ignored. But, little seems worse than a Hospital charging >$20 for a single aspirin and seeing the insurance company happily pay for it.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Let the doctors, clinics and hospitals manage their own subscription service for people precisely the way the health insurance industry does.
This is a fine ideal but, I am sure they will outsource it to people who "have decades of experience in handling patient billings and claims".
Stan Shannon wrote:
It would work perfectly if only it were allowed to.
I don't think that entropy can ever be ignored. But, little seems worse than a Hospital charging >$20 for a single aspirin and seeing the insurance company happily pay for it.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
Chris Austin wrote:
outsource it to people who "have decades of experience in handling patient billings and claims".
I hear medical vacations to India [^]are all the rage. India medicine must be nationalized so people have no place to escape to.
Chris Austin wrote:
But, little seems worse than a Hospital charging >$20 for a single aspirin and seeing the insurance company happily pay for it
As long as illegals hit the emergency room for "free" care, costs have to be distributed.
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Chris Austin wrote:
outsource it to people who "have decades of experience in handling patient billings and claims".
I hear medical vacations to India [^]are all the rage. India medicine must be nationalized so people have no place to escape to.
Chris Austin wrote:
But, little seems worse than a Hospital charging >$20 for a single aspirin and seeing the insurance company happily pay for it
As long as illegals hit the emergency room for "free" care, costs have to be distributed.
kmg365 wrote:
I hear medical vacations to India [^]are all the rage. India medicine must be nationalized so people have no place to escape to.
Yeah. Right I guess.
kmg365 wrote:
As long as illegals hit the emergency room for "free" care, costs have to be distributed.
Well, this wouldn't be a problem if the hospitals administrators reserved the use of an emergency room for emergencies.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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kmg365 wrote:
I hear medical vacations to India [^]are all the rage. India medicine must be nationalized so people have no place to escape to.
Yeah. Right I guess.
kmg365 wrote:
As long as illegals hit the emergency room for "free" care, costs have to be distributed.
Well, this wouldn't be a problem if the hospitals administrators reserved the use of an emergency room for emergencies.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
Chris Austin wrote:
Well, this wouldn't be a problem if the hospitals administrators reserved the use of an emergency room for emergencies.
not possible. by law an emergency room must treat anyone that walks in, regardless of circumstances.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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So, I finally gave in and listened a little bit to the news last night when I was driving home from a meeting. The story they were talking about was a letter of cooperation the Health Care Industry had sent the president. My immediate cynical thought was that of course they would take a "proactive" stance in the face of an oncoming train. But, after having a good bowel movement this afternoon I had an idea on the matter. I don't know if it is any good so I thought I'd toss it out amongst the wild :) and see how it stands. What if every employer in the US who currently pays for health care were to announce that in 18 months they would no longer be contributing to health care for employees? Would we see health care become affordable to a middle income family without the contribution of the employer? Or, would the groundswell be so great that we'd rush quickly into a single payer type of system? Personally, I think our current system has some advantages but also some obvious nonsense due to what seems like apparent collusion between the insurers and the care providers. For example when my son was born we received an invoice that included a line item of $23 for an aspirin. And, having worked for the unethical bastards at an insurance company I'd love to see their lobby power get taken down a bit.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
Chris Austin wrote:
What if every employer in the US who currently pays for health care were to announce that in 18 months they would no longer be contributing to health care for employees?
I actually think that could be an unintended consequence of the Obama plan to pay for his health care coverage extensions by taxing the company paid portion of employee health care. Since the employer contribution can really already be seen as a "tax", required to compete with other US firms for employees, once this becomes taxable to the employee, it ceases to be any more advantageous to provide health care as a benefit than it does to simply increase employee pay by a similar amount and let the employee buy insurance (or not) with it. This would relieve a large administrative cost and essentially put US firms on a level footing with foreign competitors (who don't directly fund or administer health care). Like you I think it is remarkably hypocritical that the insurers can find a Trillion in savings to avoid single payer all of a sudden. The implication is clearly that they have been ripping off that $T all this time, and are now willing to forgo this bounty to survive. One wonders just how much more profit they take that could be saved by eliminating the crooked bastards.
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Chris Austin wrote:
What if every employer in the US who currently pays for health care were to announce that in 18 months they would no longer be contributing to health care for employees?
I actually think that could be an unintended consequence of the Obama plan to pay for his health care coverage extensions by taxing the company paid portion of employee health care. Since the employer contribution can really already be seen as a "tax", required to compete with other US firms for employees, once this becomes taxable to the employee, it ceases to be any more advantageous to provide health care as a benefit than it does to simply increase employee pay by a similar amount and let the employee buy insurance (or not) with it. This would relieve a large administrative cost and essentially put US firms on a level footing with foreign competitors (who don't directly fund or administer health care). Like you I think it is remarkably hypocritical that the insurers can find a Trillion in savings to avoid single payer all of a sudden. The implication is clearly that they have been ripping off that $T all this time, and are now willing to forgo this bounty to survive. One wonders just how much more profit they take that could be saved by eliminating the crooked bastards.
Rob Graham wrote:
actually think that could be an unintended consequence of the Obama plan to pay for his health care coverage extensions by taxing the company paid portion of employee health care.
I am partial to the plan being considered in the Senate[^] to tax soft drinks to pay for universal health care. But I don't think the plan goes far enough. I have a list here of 27 communists in the Department of Def -- oops, here's the other list -- of foods that I think should be taxed: Asparagus; Rhubarb; Gummy Bears; Tea; Cow-Tongue; Frozen Pizza; Edible Undies; Starbucks' Coffees; Curry; Lima Beans; and Maraschino Cherries.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Rob Graham wrote:
actually think that could be an unintended consequence of the Obama plan to pay for his health care coverage extensions by taxing the company paid portion of employee health care.
I am partial to the plan being considered in the Senate[^] to tax soft drinks to pay for universal health care. But I don't think the plan goes far enough. I have a list here of 27 communists in the Department of Def -- oops, here's the other list -- of foods that I think should be taxed: Asparagus; Rhubarb; Gummy Bears; Tea; Cow-Tongue; Frozen Pizza; Edible Undies; Starbucks' Coffees; Curry; Lima Beans; and Maraschino Cherries.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
should be taxed:
air, water. after all, these sustain life and life gives way to illness and illness is a burden on our healthcare costs.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Oakman wrote:
should be taxed:
air, water. after all, these sustain life and life gives way to illness and illness is a burden on our healthcare costs.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
air, water.
Ever read "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress?" :thumbsup:
Mike Gaskey wrote:
life gives way to illness
Well, that has been true in the past, but ask anyone under thirty: they are going to live forver.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Oakman wrote:
should be taxed:
air, water. after all, these sustain life and life gives way to illness and illness is a burden on our healthcare costs.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
air, water.
I don't know about air but, T Boone Pickens is working on the water part. He is gobbling up water rights as fast as he can get them here in TX. I wonder if in the foreseeable future my two 300 gallon rain water collection barrels will become illegal here as they could violate some corporate water right.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
air, water.
I don't know about air but, T Boone Pickens is working on the water part. He is gobbling up water rights as fast as he can get them here in TX. I wonder if in the foreseeable future my two 300 gallon rain water collection barrels will become illegal here as they could violate some corporate water right.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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Chris Austin wrote:
What if every employer in the US who currently pays for health care were to announce that in 18 months they would no longer be contributing to health care for employees?
I actually think that could be an unintended consequence of the Obama plan to pay for his health care coverage extensions by taxing the company paid portion of employee health care. Since the employer contribution can really already be seen as a "tax", required to compete with other US firms for employees, once this becomes taxable to the employee, it ceases to be any more advantageous to provide health care as a benefit than it does to simply increase employee pay by a similar amount and let the employee buy insurance (or not) with it. This would relieve a large administrative cost and essentially put US firms on a level footing with foreign competitors (who don't directly fund or administer health care). Like you I think it is remarkably hypocritical that the insurers can find a Trillion in savings to avoid single payer all of a sudden. The implication is clearly that they have been ripping off that $T all this time, and are now willing to forgo this bounty to survive. One wonders just how much more profit they take that could be saved by eliminating the crooked bastards.
Rob Graham wrote:
This would relieve a large administrative cost and essentially put US firms on a level footing with foreign competitors (who don't directly fund or administer health care).
I am surprised this hasn't happened yet. When we began our business we understood their would be no way we could offer good health care to workers and be able to build a war chest to grow the company. A vendor that used to work for my wife was really helpful when we were planning the company and even let us see some of their expenses; it was pretty shocking to me at the time that health care was their biggest expense.
Rob Graham wrote:
One wonders just how much more profit they take that could be saved by eliminating the crooked bastards.
Yeah. And the irony is that they have become so powerful because of previous government intervention. But, if their access to the middle class were to be suddenly cut off....whoa nelly.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
modified on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:22 AM
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Crops...600 gallons of rain water. . . how defensible is your place?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Crops...600 gallons of rain water
:laugh: You left out solar powered. But, the water is really just about enough for the veggies and fruits. I'd love a Hawaiian style 3K gallon tank.
Oakman wrote:
how defensible is your place?
Not to good on our own. But, we are at the end of a large cul de sac so I think we could work out a plan of sorts with the neighbors. Now, I just need to replace my toothless old retriever with a couple of strapping young dobermans.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
air, water.
I don't know about air but, T Boone Pickens is working on the water part. He is gobbling up water rights as fast as he can get them here in TX. I wonder if in the foreseeable future my two 300 gallon rain water collection barrels will become illegal here as they could violate some corporate water right.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
Does that mean he's given up on natural gas? I haven't seen his commercials lately. That guy is certainly interested in something... I just can't quite put my finger on it... But I think it's green. :~
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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Chris Austin wrote:
Well, this wouldn't be a problem if the hospitals administrators reserved the use of an emergency room for emergencies.
not possible. by law an emergency room must treat anyone that walks in, regardless of circumstances.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
by law an emergency room must treat anyone that walks in, regardless of circumstances.
Now that is a stupid law. I am pretty sure we used to have lots of county and city ran 'clinics' for check ups, and medications.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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Does that mean he's given up on natural gas? I haven't seen his commercials lately. That guy is certainly interested in something... I just can't quite put my finger on it... But I think it's green. :~
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
Does that mean he's given up on natural gas?
No. He is trying to lock in water, gas and, wind rights all over Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and a few other states. He and his people are smart and realize that we are in the middle of a dramatic population shift where a lot of people are moving to coastal and South Western states.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
by law an emergency room must treat anyone that walks in, regardless of circumstances.
Now that is a stupid law. I am pretty sure we used to have lots of county and city ran 'clinics' for check ups, and medications.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
Chris Austin wrote:
Now that is a stupid law.
agreed. as a Texan you're probably aware that illegals make great use of this law.
Chris Austin wrote:
I am pretty sure we used to have lots of county and city ran 'clinics' for check ups, and medications.
Parkland in Dallas is one such very large organization that, if I remember correctly, charges on the basis of ability to pay - but, Dallas County taxes are astronomical as a result and the emergency room is always at capacity unless soemthing has changed dramatically since I last checked. That has been a year or so ago since I dumped my Dallas propertys.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Chris Austin wrote:
Well, this wouldn't be a problem if the hospitals administrators reserved the use of an emergency room for emergencies.
not possible. by law an emergency room must treat anyone that walks in, regardless of circumstances.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
The smart hospitals have staffed 24 hr. walk in clinics for "non-emergency" visitors. The result is treatment of those who can't pay still happens for free, but not at the emergency room cost. A few States have begun to fund these out of MedicAid, since they produce big cost savings over ER as the only "free" alternative.