Domestic Terrorism
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http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=why_clinic_violence_is_obamas_problem[^]
While FACE improved the situation (the number of clinics experiencing severe violence dropped from 52 percent in 1994 to 20 percent in 2000), it didn't succeed in ending the violence. Attacks against women's health clinics -- both those that provide abortions and those that do not -- continued throughout the Bush years. According to the National Abortion Federation, since 2000 abortion providers have reported 14 arsons, 78 death threats, 66 incidents of assault and battery, 117 anthrax threats, 128 bomb threats, 109 incidents of stalking, 541 acts of vandalism, one bombing, and one attempted murder. Add one murder to that list.
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http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=why_clinic_violence_is_obamas_problem[^]
While FACE improved the situation (the number of clinics experiencing severe violence dropped from 52 percent in 1994 to 20 percent in 2000), it didn't succeed in ending the violence. Attacks against women's health clinics -- both those that provide abortions and those that do not -- continued throughout the Bush years. According to the National Abortion Federation, since 2000 abortion providers have reported 14 arsons, 78 death threats, 66 incidents of assault and battery, 117 anthrax threats, 128 bomb threats, 109 incidents of stalking, 541 acts of vandalism, one bombing, and one attempted murder. Add one murder to that list.
Yet you would prefer all this violence continue rather than taking harsher methods to prevent it.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Yet you would prefer all this violence continue rather than taking harsher methods to prevent it.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Why in the world do you think that I want this terrorism against a woman's access to legal medical care to continue?
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http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=why_clinic_violence_is_obamas_problem[^]
While FACE improved the situation (the number of clinics experiencing severe violence dropped from 52 percent in 1994 to 20 percent in 2000), it didn't succeed in ending the violence. Attacks against women's health clinics -- both those that provide abortions and those that do not -- continued throughout the Bush years. According to the National Abortion Federation, since 2000 abortion providers have reported 14 arsons, 78 death threats, 66 incidents of assault and battery, 117 anthrax threats, 128 bomb threats, 109 incidents of stalking, 541 acts of vandalism, one bombing, and one attempted murder. Add one murder to that list.
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Why in the world do you think that I want this terrorism against a woman's access to legal medical care to continue?
oilFactotum wrote:
Why in the world do you think that I want this terrorism against a woman's access to legal medical care to continue?
But how far are you willing to go to root out the terrorists? What sort of interogation techniques would you use if you knew they were planning a clinic-bombing?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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oilFactotum wrote:
Why in the world do you think that I want this terrorism against a woman's access to legal medical care to continue?
But how far are you willing to go to root out the terrorists? What sort of interogation techniques would you use if you knew they were planning a clinic-bombing?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
The legal and effective methods that have been our mainstay until recently.
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The legal and effective methods that have been our mainstay until recently.
oilFactotum wrote:
The legal and effective methods that have been our mainstay until recently.
how is that working out?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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oilFactotum wrote:
The legal and effective methods that have been our mainstay until recently.
how is that working out?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
So you'd advocate illegal methods? Regardless of their effectiveness or lack thereof.
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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oilFactotum wrote:
The legal and effective methods that have been our mainstay until recently.
how is that working out?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Better than torture, that's for sure.
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So you'd advocate illegal methods? Regardless of their effectiveness or lack thereof.
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
So you'd advocate illegal methods?
the debate is, "what is legal" and that is subjective but yes, I advocate measures some deem illegal.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
So you'd advocate illegal methods?
the debate is, "what is legal" and that is subjective but yes, I advocate measures some deem illegal.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
the debate is, "what is legal" and that is subjective
Sorry, bud. Torture is illegal and clearly defined. The precedents go back over a century. Whether waterboarding or stress positions. It's torture and it is illegal.
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Does Bill Ayers fit in there somewhere? Ayers was a much better terrorist, and he has connections. I hear he even has a book out about his exploits. :rolleyes:
kmg365 wrote:
Does Bill Ayers fit in there somewhere
I doubt it covers the Black Panthers or the Weathermen, either. After all they were forced to do what they did by an uncaring and unhearing government enforcing unjust laws.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
the debate is, "what is legal" and that is subjective
Sorry, bud. Torture is illegal and clearly defined. The precedents go back over a century. Whether waterboarding or stress positions. It's torture and it is illegal.
oilFactotum wrote:
Torture is illegal and clearly defined
you betcha
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Does Bill Ayers fit in there somewhere? Ayers was a much better terrorist, and he has connections. I hear he even has a book out about his exploits. :rolleyes:
Glad to see that you agree that Roeder is a terrorist.
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oilFactotum wrote:
Torture is illegal and clearly defined
you betcha
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Glad you agree.
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Why in the world do you think that I want this terrorism against a woman's access to legal medical care to continue?
oilFactotum wrote:
woman's access to legal medical care
That what we should call abortion. That makes it sound all better. Legal medical care...
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The legal and effective methods that have been our mainstay until recently.
Whoa, hold the phone. You believe that the CIA had their happy faces on up until 2000? :omg: You got anything to back up that crazy assertion, or did it grow out of necessity to fuel your hatred of all things Bush? I know the CIA has enjoyed such a wonderful reputation for handing out smiles and cotton candy up until 8 years ago but... :rolleyes:
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
the debate is, "what is legal" and that is subjective
Sorry, bud. Torture is illegal and clearly defined. The precedents go back over a century. Whether waterboarding or stress positions. It's torture and it is illegal.
oilFactotum wrote:
clearly defined. The precedents go back over a century. Whether waterboarding or stress positions. It's torture and it is illegal.
Again, if any of what you said there was true, there would be no debate.
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Glad to see that you agree that Roeder is a terrorist.
oilFactotum wrote:
agree that Roeder is a terrorist.
I would say he is a vigilante, his objective I don't think was to inspire terror. I would agree that he is subject to the penalties of law... now-day's a vaporous, nebulous squishy subjective touchy feely thing (ask Sotomayor). I did not look at his race, but he is a male. + 20 years if he's white + 20 years if he hated + 20 years if he called the abortionist a fag + 20 black - 20 hispanic - 40 lesbian, hispanic with pms - off with 2 month probation. I could be a judge :)
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Glad to see that you agree that Roeder is a terrorist.
Now that depends on his intent. Was he trying to make the government change it's policies as a result of the terror he inspired? Is anybody scared that he (or his organization, if there is one) will strike again? Or was he just trying to kill someone he saw as a mass murderer that needed to be stopped? None of us know. In any event, what we do know is that he's a murderer, who should and will be put to justice. And there's no way to know just how many lives will be saved by his actions. A better question might be, why is it important to you to label him a terrorist? Because he seems to have taken extreme action based on a right wing belief? Because there's a word for that kind of bating antagonism on the internet... It starts with a "T" and ends with a "roll".
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