Second Ammendment of Constitution Does not apply In Chicago, says court! [modified]
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
Personal responability (as Bonesoft has already noted), includes self reliance Family before all other considerations Moral / ethical behavior Individual rights, ie., the natural rights of man including the sanctity of personal property rights Limited Federal authority over individuals, as outlined in the Constituition
Nothing there I'd argue with. If I had to sum it up, I'd say that the conservatives I am talking about are those who take personal responsibility for the survival of their family, their friends, their nation, and their species - not necessarily in that order. To me, that is conservative and moral.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
If I had to sum it up, I'd say
Good summary, a bit better than my list approach - but more to the point, we agree.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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BoneSoft wrote:
- Personal responsibility 2) Personal responsibility 3) Personal responsibility 4) Personal responsibility and, last but not least... 5) Personal responsibility
I believe in personal responsibility too, but I was looking for a serious answer.
You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt
Serious as a heart attack. It all boils down to personal responsibility. I don't need or want a hand-out from anybody, least of all a government. Anybody who's ever watched a single episode of Sopranos knows that "hey lemme help you out there" usually means "hey lemme own your ass". As a consequence, I pull my own weight, and I expect others to do the same. Self reliance and personal responsibility. Also as a consequence, how I do in this world rests entirely on my shoulders, so I have incentive to work hard because nobody's going to do it for me. An economy and social structure built on this foundation is self governing to a large extent and prosperous for anybody with the motivation to make the most of it. That was America. Of course there will always be a small number of people who truly cannot provide for themselves and have no family to be responsible for them. Who, for the most part, can be helped by churches and other charitable individuals and organizations. Or even possibly some modest state sponsored groups. This philosophy did us very well for a long time, through some of the most prosperous times in human history. Now, there have always been those who didn't want to pull their own weight, which meant they and their families suffered. The problems come when somebody doesn't like Darwin's work and insists that somebody help those poor lazy wastes of space. But since most people pulling their own weight have no sympathy for those who don't, the government is asked to do it with all of our tax money. And pretty soon, more and more people don't want to pull their own weight. And a good portion of the people forget where the government gets their money and therefore don't feel in the least bit embarrassed or guilty for screwing the government. And before you know it, you have a legally ineligible communist elected president. And we all know how this story ends, the senate kills him, allowing Augustus to take power and we're saddled with an emperor for the next several hundred years until the empire dissolves under its own weight and the dark ages begin. Then with any luck, somebody sits around contemplating the universe long enough to come to the epiphany that, maybe if people pulled their own weight, prosperity and harmony could rule the land. And round and round we go. Personal responsibility. Plain and simple.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some f
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BoneSoft wrote:
Personal responsibility
Which lets out most of the neos. They seem to favor a big government with lots of control and all kinds of rules and regulations.
BoneSoft wrote:
And just imagine a world where the majority of people in government were responsible people.
You shouldn't start drinking so early in the evening.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Which lets out most of the neos. They seem to favor a big government with lots of control and all kinds of rules and regulations.
George went way off the reservation, and a lot of people didn't question the party line. I suspect it would be much easier to break away from that party line if the other party wasn't treating the divide like a war. When you hear all day long that "you suck because your party blah blah blah" the easiest thing to fall back on in defense mode is to defend the party or denounce it, and THEN try to fight the premise. Why, I don't know, but that's how most people react. If we could get past all this "you're a moron because you think something different" I think a lot of things would straighten out.
Oakman wrote:
ou shouldn't start drinking so early in the evening.
I know huh? Responsible honest people forming a responsible honest government? That's just CRAZY talk! Something in our system either weeds out the decent people, or just attracts douche bags. I wish to God I knew what it was, so I could suggest we change it.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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BoneSoft wrote:
- Personal responsibility 2) Personal responsibility 3) Personal responsibility 4) Personal responsibility and, last but not least... 5) Personal responsibility
I believe in personal responsibility too, but I was looking for a serious answer.
You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt
Daniel Ferguson wrote:
I believe in personal responsibility too, but I was looking for a serious answer.
You got one. That I guarantee. For what it's worth, it doesn't matter whether someone believes in personal responsibility, it's whether they practice it. If someone sees a problem and says, the government ought to do something about that, they aren't practicing it. If they see inequities in the system and think they can be fixed by passing a law, they aren't practicing it. If they cheat on their taxes, they aren't practicing it. If they fruck a whore on Saturday night and condemn her in church on Sunday, they aren't practicing it. Even here in this little corner of the cyberworld, if they agree to the Terms of Service of CodeProject and then use their posts to personally attack and insult other posters rather than debate or respond civilly, they aren't practicing it. Equally, people who assume that no-one else is taking personal responsibility is not practing it either. One of the things I admire about the Marines, is their assumption that every other Marine will do whatever it takes to accomplish the mission, to get his buddies back - alive if possible, but back just the same, and then - and only then, to get back themself. They trust other people to take personal responsibility - at least until its proven that they don't. (I'm not talking about a suicide pact.) i.e. If they think they need to disarm everyone so they can be safe, they aren't practicing it. If they think they need to make everyone pray to their god, they aren't practicing it. If they think they need to write a bunch of laws detailing who to marry and how to have sex and what to smoke, and when to demonstrate (a phoney) respect, they aren't practicing it. Looking back, I believe I can say that everything I have done in my life that I wish I hadn't done can be summed up as those times when I didn't take personal responsibility.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Daniel Ferguson wrote:
Good point, there are quite a few (Bush Jr, Cheney) Conservatives leaders and pundits too who actively avoided service while talking a lot about military and honor
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
That's funny, the only two women on the entire list are Anne Coulter and Condie Rice. But they did get every Republican they could think of, all the way from Dan Quayle up to Matt Drudge and Ted Nugent. Wait, Drudge and Nugent? :laugh: Good stuff.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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That's funny, the only two women on the entire list are Anne Coulter and Condie Rice. But they did get every Republican they could think of, all the way from Dan Quayle up to Matt Drudge and Ted Nugent. Wait, Drudge and Nugent? :laugh: Good stuff.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
's truth. I don't think serving in the military is the only way of serving your country, but I am fascinated by the number of guys who talk like John Wayne, but who, when the chips were down, acted like Woody Allen.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Good point. Which makes me think that maybe we need an Immancipation Creation Proclamation for unborn babies. And who knows, in a couple of years we may need another one for conservatives, (a Conservation Proclamation?), but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. ;P
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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Serious as a heart attack. It all boils down to personal responsibility. I don't need or want a hand-out from anybody, least of all a government. Anybody who's ever watched a single episode of Sopranos knows that "hey lemme help you out there" usually means "hey lemme own your ass". As a consequence, I pull my own weight, and I expect others to do the same. Self reliance and personal responsibility. Also as a consequence, how I do in this world rests entirely on my shoulders, so I have incentive to work hard because nobody's going to do it for me. An economy and social structure built on this foundation is self governing to a large extent and prosperous for anybody with the motivation to make the most of it. That was America. Of course there will always be a small number of people who truly cannot provide for themselves and have no family to be responsible for them. Who, for the most part, can be helped by churches and other charitable individuals and organizations. Or even possibly some modest state sponsored groups. This philosophy did us very well for a long time, through some of the most prosperous times in human history. Now, there have always been those who didn't want to pull their own weight, which meant they and their families suffered. The problems come when somebody doesn't like Darwin's work and insists that somebody help those poor lazy wastes of space. But since most people pulling their own weight have no sympathy for those who don't, the government is asked to do it with all of our tax money. And pretty soon, more and more people don't want to pull their own weight. And a good portion of the people forget where the government gets their money and therefore don't feel in the least bit embarrassed or guilty for screwing the government. And before you know it, you have a legally ineligible communist elected president. And we all know how this story ends, the senate kills him, allowing Augustus to take power and we're saddled with an emperor for the next several hundred years until the empire dissolves under its own weight and the dark ages begin. Then with any luck, somebody sits around contemplating the universe long enough to come to the epiphany that, maybe if people pulled their own weight, prosperity and harmony could rule the land. And round and round we go. Personal responsibility. Plain and simple.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some f
BoneSoft wrote:
I pull my own weight, and I expect others to do the same. Self reliance and personal responsibility. Also as a consequence, how I do in this world rests entirely on my shoulders, so I have incentive to work hard because nobody's going to do it for me.
I really do agree that personal responsibility is crucial. I grew up in a poor family and decided not to be poor. However, I think that personal responsibility can't solve all of the problems. I'll start a topic one day when I have more time to explain that.
You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt
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Daniel Ferguson wrote:
I believe in personal responsibility too, but I was looking for a serious answer.
You got one. That I guarantee. For what it's worth, it doesn't matter whether someone believes in personal responsibility, it's whether they practice it. If someone sees a problem and says, the government ought to do something about that, they aren't practicing it. If they see inequities in the system and think they can be fixed by passing a law, they aren't practicing it. If they cheat on their taxes, they aren't practicing it. If they fruck a whore on Saturday night and condemn her in church on Sunday, they aren't practicing it. Even here in this little corner of the cyberworld, if they agree to the Terms of Service of CodeProject and then use their posts to personally attack and insult other posters rather than debate or respond civilly, they aren't practicing it. Equally, people who assume that no-one else is taking personal responsibility is not practing it either. One of the things I admire about the Marines, is their assumption that every other Marine will do whatever it takes to accomplish the mission, to get his buddies back - alive if possible, but back just the same, and then - and only then, to get back themself. They trust other people to take personal responsibility - at least until its proven that they don't. (I'm not talking about a suicide pact.) i.e. If they think they need to disarm everyone so they can be safe, they aren't practicing it. If they think they need to make everyone pray to their god, they aren't practicing it. If they think they need to write a bunch of laws detailing who to marry and how to have sex and what to smoke, and when to demonstrate (a phoney) respect, they aren't practicing it. Looking back, I believe I can say that everything I have done in my life that I wish I hadn't done can be summed up as those times when I didn't take personal responsibility.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Equally, people who assume that no-one else is taking personal responsibility is not practing it either. One of the things I admire about the Marines, is their assumption that every other Marine will do whatever it takes to accomplish the mission, to get his buddies back - alive if possible, but back just the same, and then - and only then, to get back themself. They trust other people to take personal responsibility - at least until its proven that they don't.
Sounds like there's a social/group element to personal responsibility. I think this is where personal responsibility gets complicated.
Oakman wrote:
If they think they need to disarm everyone so they can be safe, they aren't practicing it. If they think they need to make everyone pray to their god, they aren't practicing it. If they think they need to write a bunch of laws detailing who to marry and how to have sex and what to smoke, and when to demonstrate (a phoney) respect, they aren't practicing it.
I couldn't agree more. I personally don't do illegal drugs, but why is the government wasting money by paying police to arrest and jail people who choose to do it to themselves? Bottom line is: I totally agree that personal responsibility is important, but I think it gets complicated in crowded cities. I'll start a post when I have more time to explain that.
You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt
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Oakman wrote:
Equally, people who assume that no-one else is taking personal responsibility is not practing it either. One of the things I admire about the Marines, is their assumption that every other Marine will do whatever it takes to accomplish the mission, to get his buddies back - alive if possible, but back just the same, and then - and only then, to get back themself. They trust other people to take personal responsibility - at least until its proven that they don't.
Sounds like there's a social/group element to personal responsibility. I think this is where personal responsibility gets complicated.
Oakman wrote:
If they think they need to disarm everyone so they can be safe, they aren't practicing it. If they think they need to make everyone pray to their god, they aren't practicing it. If they think they need to write a bunch of laws detailing who to marry and how to have sex and what to smoke, and when to demonstrate (a phoney) respect, they aren't practicing it.
I couldn't agree more. I personally don't do illegal drugs, but why is the government wasting money by paying police to arrest and jail people who choose to do it to themselves? Bottom line is: I totally agree that personal responsibility is important, but I think it gets complicated in crowded cities. I'll start a post when I have more time to explain that.
You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt
Daniel Ferguson wrote:
Sounds like there's a social/group element to personal responsibility.
Of course there is. Even dogs know that. "I take personal responsibility for the survival of the family/group/clan/nation/species" is the hallmark of the responsible person - or animal.
Daniel Ferguson wrote:
think this is where personal responsibility gets complicated.
That's why the original answer wasn't as simple as you thought it was. Civilization, in my humble opinion, is all about assuming, aiding, teaching and acting as if everyone can take and has taken personal responsibility for themselves and for civiliztion - until, as I said, they prove incapable or unwilling to behave in a civilized manner.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin