Political Correctness gone mad
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Karl wrote: she was more a Reagan clone than a puppet, but a least a virulent anti-European I could argue that Reagan was more a Thatcher clone than vice versa but otherwise I'd agree with you. Karl wrote: An "ultra-liberal" person is here someone who is against any State intervention and think that everything should be regulated by the Market only. Ahh, I see. In that case, yes, it would apply to Thatcher. Within certain limits, it would apply to me too :) Karl wrote: 'cause we are very happy with EdF Interesting. I can see why Eurpe might impose such a regulation. Privatisation has been proved (largely) to be to the benfit of the customer. Certainly, apart from RailTrack, privatisation has been very successful here. Remember that the problems with our health serivces are within the nationalised sector, not within private organisations. Karl wrote: About France and Germany, the issue is IMHO less economical than political. EU needs to have some countries which push it forward politically And therein lies the problem. Politically you are absolutely correct, there do need to be strong forces controlling the European position, rather than being a mess of conflicting countries who couldn't agree on anything. But those forces will always impose their will economically and that's what the rest of Europe is afraid of. Karl wrote: I don't think languages could be an insuperable barrier, as Belgium and Switzerland demonstrate it. I don't think it should be a problem, but I think it will be because discussion is the road to understanding. Look at this conversation. We started off from completely opposing viewpoints, now you and I both have a better understanding of each other's opinions and have even found some common ground. Next time I hear someone bitching about French liberalism, I can say "to be fair" and explain the opposing point of view, even if I don't feel it myself (and I will do). This has to happen between all people of all nations before a Federal European Nation could ever exist. It's no good having only politicians understanding each other, they're all just faceless Eurocrats to the people and the people have to be sold on the idea of a federal europe before it can work. So yes, language barriers will always be a factor. In the same way, national pride should never be an issue, but it would be.
Paul Riley wrote: Privatisation has been proved (largely) to be to the benfit of the customer I would say for some (probably the majority of) customers. For example, about electricity, what about people living in isolated parts of the country ? Do they pay the same price than others ? Do they benefit from competition ? For me, the equality of all citizens (yes, not subjects, citizens ;P) across all the territory is more important than economic considerations, even if I have to pay electricity a little more. After all, our national "slogan" is "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity". Paul Riley wrote: what the rest of Europe is afraid of. Others european countries have probably bad memories about French and German imperialisms, but I hope these times are over Paul Riley wrote: No one in France would vote for an Englishman for prime minister Yes, probably not, because you're politically too different. But I'm not sure it would be the same with a German, a Spanish or an Italian. And since I voted once for the right-wing, I think everything is possible. Paul Riley wrote: At least as a State we would gain all these things You would also loose the kingdom, and I thought you are pretty attached to your Queen, aren't you ? Paul Riley wrote: and they still use Imperial measurements And it's a total non-sense :-D ! (Just for fun, calculate with Imperial measurements the surface of a house knowing its width (let's say 7 yards and 3 feet) and its length(9 yards 2 feets), then make the calculation using metric system :) ) Paul Riley wrote: France's actions over Sangatte and our own BSE crisis have put a poison in our relationship I'm not sure Sangatte have a great influence on French opinion about UK (What about the opposite ?). BSE has more, but we assimilate that to search for profit before other considerations, so we blame more liberalism than UK. Another issue, more important, is the refusal of UK to extrade a terrorist (Rachid Ramda), held for responsible for several deadly terrorist attacks in Paris in 1995. Paul Riley wrote: I can say "to be fair" and explain the opposing point of view, even if I don't feel it myself (and I will do). It may be another thing we have in common :) . I generally disagree with everyone, whatever he thinks, because IMHO there's always two ways to handle a p
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Paul Riley wrote: Privatisation has been proved (largely) to be to the benfit of the customer I would say for some (probably the majority of) customers. For example, about electricity, what about people living in isolated parts of the country ? Do they pay the same price than others ? Do they benefit from competition ? For me, the equality of all citizens (yes, not subjects, citizens ;P) across all the territory is more important than economic considerations, even if I have to pay electricity a little more. After all, our national "slogan" is "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity". Paul Riley wrote: what the rest of Europe is afraid of. Others european countries have probably bad memories about French and German imperialisms, but I hope these times are over Paul Riley wrote: No one in France would vote for an Englishman for prime minister Yes, probably not, because you're politically too different. But I'm not sure it would be the same with a German, a Spanish or an Italian. And since I voted once for the right-wing, I think everything is possible. Paul Riley wrote: At least as a State we would gain all these things You would also loose the kingdom, and I thought you are pretty attached to your Queen, aren't you ? Paul Riley wrote: and they still use Imperial measurements And it's a total non-sense :-D ! (Just for fun, calculate with Imperial measurements the surface of a house knowing its width (let's say 7 yards and 3 feet) and its length(9 yards 2 feets), then make the calculation using metric system :) ) Paul Riley wrote: France's actions over Sangatte and our own BSE crisis have put a poison in our relationship I'm not sure Sangatte have a great influence on French opinion about UK (What about the opposite ?). BSE has more, but we assimilate that to search for profit before other considerations, so we blame more liberalism than UK. Another issue, more important, is the refusal of UK to extrade a terrorist (Rachid Ramda), held for responsible for several deadly terrorist attacks in Paris in 1995. Paul Riley wrote: I can say "to be fair" and explain the opposing point of view, even if I don't feel it myself (and I will do). It may be another thing we have in common :) . I generally disagree with everyone, whatever he thinks, because IMHO there's always two ways to handle a p
Karl wrote: I would say for some (probably the majority of) customers. For example, about electricity, what about people living in isolated parts of the country ? Do they pay the same price than others ? Do they benefit from competition ? Yes on all counts. I am one of those in an outlying area and the only privatised company that treats me differently from other customers is BT. They don't charge any more but they're not willing to extend ADSL services because they can't make enough money. I've whined enough on that subject in this forum but I don't blame it on privatisation, I suspect it would be the same (possibly worse) if it were nationalised. Karl wrote: French and German imperialisms, but I hope these times are over Quite. We have exactly the same problem as I'm sure you're aware :( Karl wrote: Yes, probably not, because you're politically too different. But I'm not sure it would be the same with a German, a Spanish or an Italian. Really? It wouldn't happen here, whatever the nationality. We had enough problems convincing people that a national football manager could be a Swede! Karl wrote: You would also loose the kingdom, and I thought you are pretty attached to your Queen, aren't you ? I'm not. I'd happily lose them, but I'm equally happy to keep them as long as the majority of people want to. Polls tend to show 50-60% of people in favour of the monarchy but admittedly polls are usually held after discussions about the Queen's £56m wage bill, rather than after discussions about how much money they bring in through tourism. So yes, I'd say a majority are still in favour. BUT... if it came down to a choice, I wonder how many would hold to that. Since the commonwealth has proved itself completely useless over the last 12 months (esp. in not dealing with Robert Mugabe), I don't see a lot of point in holding onto the past like that. Karl wrote: And it's a total non-sense ! I know, I know. I'm not going to try to justify imperial over metric, it's just not possible. But a lot of people have a problem with it when they're used to imperial (my wife can't handle conversions at all). The only thing I strongly object to there is that people have actually been jailed for refusing to sell in metric. Karl wrote: I'm not sure Sangatte have a great influence on French opinion about UK (What about t
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Karl wrote: I would say for some (probably the majority of) customers. For example, about electricity, what about people living in isolated parts of the country ? Do they pay the same price than others ? Do they benefit from competition ? Yes on all counts. I am one of those in an outlying area and the only privatised company that treats me differently from other customers is BT. They don't charge any more but they're not willing to extend ADSL services because they can't make enough money. I've whined enough on that subject in this forum but I don't blame it on privatisation, I suspect it would be the same (possibly worse) if it were nationalised. Karl wrote: French and German imperialisms, but I hope these times are over Quite. We have exactly the same problem as I'm sure you're aware :( Karl wrote: Yes, probably not, because you're politically too different. But I'm not sure it would be the same with a German, a Spanish or an Italian. Really? It wouldn't happen here, whatever the nationality. We had enough problems convincing people that a national football manager could be a Swede! Karl wrote: You would also loose the kingdom, and I thought you are pretty attached to your Queen, aren't you ? I'm not. I'd happily lose them, but I'm equally happy to keep them as long as the majority of people want to. Polls tend to show 50-60% of people in favour of the monarchy but admittedly polls are usually held after discussions about the Queen's £56m wage bill, rather than after discussions about how much money they bring in through tourism. So yes, I'd say a majority are still in favour. BUT... if it came down to a choice, I wonder how many would hold to that. Since the commonwealth has proved itself completely useless over the last 12 months (esp. in not dealing with Robert Mugabe), I don't see a lot of point in holding onto the past like that. Karl wrote: And it's a total non-sense ! I know, I know. I'm not going to try to justify imperial over metric, it's just not possible. But a lot of people have a problem with it when they're used to imperial (my wife can't handle conversions at all). The only thing I strongly object to there is that people have actually been jailed for refusing to sell in metric. Karl wrote: I'm not sure Sangatte have a great influence on French opinion about UK (What about t
Paul Riley wrote: We have exactly the same problem as I'm sure you're aware Don't worry about us: England has left since 1904 the place of hereditary enemy it owned for 7 centuries (except during 6 Nations tournament :-D ) Paul Riley wrote: Really? It wouldn't happen here, whatever the nationality It's harder (it should be) for us to be so nationalistic, because our country is made of population mixing since its gallic beginning, and our culture is quiet good to integrate people from different origin. The problem is often that the descendants of immigrate population may be more racist than the ones who disparage their parents or grand-parents ! Paul Riley wrote: I strongly object to there is that people have actually been jailed for refusing to sell in metric Dura lex, sed lex...It's true it's a little bit harsh to jail someone for this, but being part of European union UK has to respect the rules. Forcing tradesmen to use metric system is perhaps the solution for the next generations to use it easily. It's always hard to change references, we have seen that with the disparition of our national currency for the Euro. A lot of people (and not only older ones) here still make the conversion Franc/Euro for every price their ear, even if the conversion isn't easy (the factor is 6.55957). It's stupid, 'cause Franc doesn't and won't exist anymore, but people are generally to lazy to force themselve to change their practice. Paul Riley wrote: I was quite impressed by the speech announcing the closure the other week It's like closing hospitals to stop a disease. The closure won't change anything, on the contrary, it's just a political annoucement. The center was first opened because illegal immigrants wandered through North towns like tramps, waiting an occasion to cross the channel. Now the center closed, illegal immigrant will spread through the country as before, with less control and more delinquency. There are already evidences than clandestine organisations now use the Rouen and Cherboug harbors. Paul Riley wrote: Not ONE European country came and said "How can we help?" Every single one said "Stupid British farmers, shut down the borders." It was also a good occasion to do some protectionism... Food quality is here a very, very important matter. Everything in this area is very sensitive and very emotional. The fact than England continued to