Who watches the watchers?
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Doctors involved in torture[^]. This is not unique to the US, the British did far worse in the past and you only have to look at the Stanford Experiment to see how people can change.
As have the US and everyone else but that was when standards differed, things change and what was acceptable is no longer, you can only fairly just current actions not those of previous generations. and if you judge these actions today then they fail to meet the current definition of acceptable
Go away and research the subject, analyze the options for and against, understand the problem and them come back when you agree with me.
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Doctors involved in torture[^]. This is not unique to the US, the British did far worse in the past and you only have to look at the Stanford Experiment to see how people can change.
I really enjoyed the Watchmen movie.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Doctors involved in torture[^]. This is not unique to the US, the British did far worse in the past and you only have to look at the Stanford Experiment to see how people can change.
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You seem to be suggesting that there exist objective standards of right and wrong by which we may judge one another. Are you *sure* you want to go that route?
You should hurry up and evolve a brain already.
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You seem to be suggesting that there exist objective standards of right and wrong by which we may judge one another. Are you *sure* you want to go that route?
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A good comment but my main point is about double standards - expecting your citizens to be treated a certain way but treating others completely differently.
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
Trollslayer wrote:
expecting your citizens to be treated a certain way but treating others completely differently.
Well of course we do. At football I shout encouragement for my team and boo the foreigners. Don't you?
------------------------------------ "Men may make bad decisions, immoral decisions or just plain wrong decisions, but at least they make decisions. Women on the other hand..." Patrick Kielty 2006
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Trollslayer wrote:
expecting your citizens to be treated a certain way but treating others completely differently.
Well of course we do. At football I shout encouragement for my team and boo the foreigners. Don't you?
------------------------------------ "Men may make bad decisions, immoral decisions or just plain wrong decisions, but at least they make decisions. Women on the other hand..." Patrick Kielty 2006
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You expect the other supporters to boo your team so that is not what I am talking about. I mean torture when you condem torture of your people.
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
I don't have the option of displaying the :facetious: smiley. Mind you that said, when Colchester (and Army Garrison town) last played Luton we all sung "All your mothers get fucked by squaddies!" at them, and worse things too, so a mild form of psychological torture. I agree that torture is wrong in 99.99% of the time, but where it is for the public good it must still be an option. A government doesn't invoke laws as a suicide pact. If there was a nuclear bomb set to go off, would you want your security forces to locate it even if it meant torture? A tough question, but valid.
------------------------------------ "Men may make bad decisions, immoral decisions or just plain wrong decisions, but at least they make decisions. Women on the other hand..." Patrick Kielty 2006
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I don't have the option of displaying the :facetious: smiley. Mind you that said, when Colchester (and Army Garrison town) last played Luton we all sung "All your mothers get fucked by squaddies!" at them, and worse things too, so a mild form of psychological torture. I agree that torture is wrong in 99.99% of the time, but where it is for the public good it must still be an option. A government doesn't invoke laws as a suicide pact. If there was a nuclear bomb set to go off, would you want your security forces to locate it even if it meant torture? A tough question, but valid.
------------------------------------ "Men may make bad decisions, immoral decisions or just plain wrong decisions, but at least they make decisions. Women on the other hand..." Patrick Kielty 2006
Dalek Dave wrote:
I agree that torture is wrong in 99.99% of the time, but where it is for the public good it must still be an option.
It's good to know that people can find ways to make anything okay. Mankind's rules are the only ones that seem to have exceptions.:~ X|
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Dalek Dave wrote:
I agree that torture is wrong in 99.99% of the time, but where it is for the public good it must still be an option.
It's good to know that people can find ways to make anything okay. Mankind's rules are the only ones that seem to have exceptions.:~ X|
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You should hurry up and evolve a brain already.
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A good comment but my main point is about double standards - expecting your citizens to be treated a certain way but treating others completely differently.
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
Trollslayer wrote:
A good comment but my main point is about double standards - expecting your citizens to be treated a certain way but treating others completely differently.
Once again (and, as before, I'll leave unexamined the question of whether your charge has merit), you seem to be appealing to some objective moral standard in this condemnation of hypocrisy. As I asked before, are you sure you want to go there?
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I don't have the option of displaying the :facetious: smiley. Mind you that said, when Colchester (and Army Garrison town) last played Luton we all sung "All your mothers get fucked by squaddies!" at them, and worse things too, so a mild form of psychological torture. I agree that torture is wrong in 99.99% of the time, but where it is for the public good it must still be an option. A government doesn't invoke laws as a suicide pact. If there was a nuclear bomb set to go off, would you want your security forces to locate it even if it meant torture? A tough question, but valid.
------------------------------------ "Men may make bad decisions, immoral decisions or just plain wrong decisions, but at least they make decisions. Women on the other hand..." Patrick Kielty 2006
Dalek Dave wrote:
I agree that torture is wrong in 99.99% of the time, but where it is for the public good it must still be an option.
So, it's wrong, unless we REALLY want to do it ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Trollslayer wrote:
A good comment but my main point is about double standards - expecting your citizens to be treated a certain way but treating others completely differently.
Once again (and, as before, I'll leave unexamined the question of whether your charge has merit), you seem to be appealing to some objective moral standard in this condemnation of hypocrisy. As I asked before, are you sure you want to go there?
Objective moral standards are pretty universally agreed upon, by people of all sorts of belief. Everyone knows that.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Dalek Dave wrote:
I agree that torture is wrong in 99.99% of the time, but where it is for the public good it must still be an option.
So, it's wrong, unless we REALLY want to do it ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I can admit openly to sticking a knife into an open wound of a man I watched being shot, but you what, he gave up the information we needed. I was in the army at the time and we didn't have time for shits like this. Am I a torturer, or someone who saved many lives? I bet if you kid died that day and we could have stopped it I would have been a basterd if we didn't stop it. You call it?
------------------------------------ "Men may make bad decisions, immoral decisions or just plain wrong decisions, but at least they make decisions. Women on the other hand..." Patrick Kielty 2006
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I can admit openly to sticking a knife into an open wound of a man I watched being shot, but you what, he gave up the information we needed. I was in the army at the time and we didn't have time for shits like this. Am I a torturer, or someone who saved many lives? I bet if you kid died that day and we could have stopped it I would have been a basterd if we didn't stop it. You call it?
------------------------------------ "Men may make bad decisions, immoral decisions or just plain wrong decisions, but at least they make decisions. Women on the other hand..." Patrick Kielty 2006
I would do it again
------------------------------------ "Men may make bad decisions, immoral decisions or just plain wrong decisions, but at least they make decisions. Women on the other hand..." Patrick Kielty 2006
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Objective moral standards are pretty universally agreed upon, by people of all sorts of belief. Everyone knows that.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
Trollslayer: A good comment but my main point is about double standards - expecting your citizens to be treated a certain way but treating others completely differently. Ilíon: Once again (and, as before, I'll leave unexamined the question of whether your charge has merit), you seem to be appealing to some objective moral standard in this condemnation of hypocrisy. As I asked before, are you sure you want to go there? Christian Graus: Objective moral standards are pretty universally agreed upon, by people of all sorts of belief. Everyone knows that.
Are you vastly ignorant, or merely disingenuous? Or -- shocker, here -- are you trying to be ironic, are you trying to express agreement with me without, you know, actually expressing agreement? People universally -- at any rate, when "universe" is defined as "'liberals' and other leftists" -- dispute either that: 1) there is such a thing as objectively binding moral obligations, in the first place; or, 2) that any objectively binding moral obligations can be known, even if they do exist. Of course, these deniers don't *really* believe what they assert; it's always about asserting that real morality doesn't apply to themselves.
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I would do it again
------------------------------------ "Men may make bad decisions, immoral decisions or just plain wrong decisions, but at least they make decisions. Women on the other hand..." Patrick Kielty 2006
You need to be inoculated.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
You should hurry up and evolve a brain already.
It's too bad that your mind hasn't yet evolved (to use the word properly).
'Evolve' in the context of biological evolution is very much a proper way of using it.