Stereotypes and Cliches
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Ok so I am sick of people telling me not to use cliches and that stereotypes are wrong. Stereotypes and cliches have come into common usage because they actually are based on some truth. If they weren't then they wouldn't have become what they have become. Italians are greasy, Americans loud, Greeks smell of fish, Australians and South Africans are drunks and Englishmen are lousy lovers. Sorry but there is a big enough percentage of truth in that for their to be a stereotype around it. Stereotypes do not magically occur, they are not generated by one sailors ramblings about some strange land. They are built upon the backs of thousands of opinions and experiences. The same goes for cliches. Cliches are built on usage, because how the cliche says what it says is a good way to say it. And yes of course as with any rule there are exceptions. Obviously don't take stereotypes so to heart that you don't let an Englishman into your bed or leave an Italian near a fire. And don't go spouting cliches left right and centre, say something your own way. But don't go AWOL when you hear a stereotype or a cliche. Or do you disagree?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa -
Ok so I am sick of people telling me not to use cliches and that stereotypes are wrong. Stereotypes and cliches have come into common usage because they actually are based on some truth. If they weren't then they wouldn't have become what they have become. Italians are greasy, Americans loud, Greeks smell of fish, Australians and South Africans are drunks and Englishmen are lousy lovers. Sorry but there is a big enough percentage of truth in that for their to be a stereotype around it. Stereotypes do not magically occur, they are not generated by one sailors ramblings about some strange land. They are built upon the backs of thousands of opinions and experiences. The same goes for cliches. Cliches are built on usage, because how the cliche says what it says is a good way to say it. And yes of course as with any rule there are exceptions. Obviously don't take stereotypes so to heart that you don't let an Englishman into your bed or leave an Italian near a fire. And don't go spouting cliches left right and centre, say something your own way. But don't go AWOL when you hear a stereotype or a cliche. Or do you disagree?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaI totally agree. I think I'm a very loud person. I just like for my opinions to be heard...:-D Norm Almond: I seen some GUI's in my life but WTF is this mess ;-) Leppie: I made an app for my sister and she wouldnt use it till it was colorful enough:) Norm:good point leppie, from that statement I can only deduce that this GUI must be aimed at children:laugh: Leppie:My sister is 25:eek: -Norm on the MailMagic GUI
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Ok so I am sick of people telling me not to use cliches and that stereotypes are wrong. Stereotypes and cliches have come into common usage because they actually are based on some truth. If they weren't then they wouldn't have become what they have become. Italians are greasy, Americans loud, Greeks smell of fish, Australians and South Africans are drunks and Englishmen are lousy lovers. Sorry but there is a big enough percentage of truth in that for their to be a stereotype around it. Stereotypes do not magically occur, they are not generated by one sailors ramblings about some strange land. They are built upon the backs of thousands of opinions and experiences. The same goes for cliches. Cliches are built on usage, because how the cliche says what it says is a good way to say it. And yes of course as with any rule there are exceptions. Obviously don't take stereotypes so to heart that you don't let an Englishman into your bed or leave an Italian near a fire. And don't go spouting cliches left right and centre, say something your own way. But don't go AWOL when you hear a stereotype or a cliche. Or do you disagree?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaAw, yer just a drunk South African, whadda you know? ;P Seriously, i'm fairly sure we'd be unable to function, as individuals or as a society with out categorizing other people in general ways. There are just too many of them for us to have the luxury of treating them solely as unique individuals. And, when it comes right down to it, people do tend to behave in ways that others expect them to, at least to some extent. When it becomes dangerous though, is when a stereotype casts such a negative light on a person that they cannot be dealt with in any normal way. An acquaintance of mine sees all people with dark skin as quite likely to be dangerous criminals. He has stats to back up his view. Of course, these stats are country-wide, and not at all relevant in a small Midwestern town such as the one he resides in. But he is still shackled by this stereotype of his. My feeling is that while we need stereotypes, we should try to identify them for what they are. Afterall, they can live on long past the time they cease being relevant or useful: There's nothing wrong with a phrase such as "Indian giver" unless someone hears it and actually believes all Indians have a tendancy to take back gifts! :) Shog9 ------ Crazy lady with the shiny shoes, where are you? Kick your feet and calm the space that makes you hollow
Live, Insomnia And The Hole In The Universe
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Ok so I am sick of people telling me not to use cliches and that stereotypes are wrong. Stereotypes and cliches have come into common usage because they actually are based on some truth. If they weren't then they wouldn't have become what they have become. Italians are greasy, Americans loud, Greeks smell of fish, Australians and South Africans are drunks and Englishmen are lousy lovers. Sorry but there is a big enough percentage of truth in that for their to be a stereotype around it. Stereotypes do not magically occur, they are not generated by one sailors ramblings about some strange land. They are built upon the backs of thousands of opinions and experiences. The same goes for cliches. Cliches are built on usage, because how the cliche says what it says is a good way to say it. And yes of course as with any rule there are exceptions. Obviously don't take stereotypes so to heart that you don't let an Englishman into your bed or leave an Italian near a fire. And don't go spouting cliches left right and centre, say something your own way. But don't go AWOL when you hear a stereotype or a cliche. Or do you disagree?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: Or do you disagree? I disagree with you for the hell of it. Guess my stereotype? ;) -- Please state the nature of your medical emergency.
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Paul Watson wrote: Or do you disagree? I disagree with you for the hell of it. Guess my stereotype? ;) -- Please state the nature of your medical emergency.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Guess my stereotype? Cool, a new stereotype: Swedish people are disagreeable for the hell of it. ;) Though I find Swedish girls highly agreeable... at least in looks and their attitude towards... *Paul shuts up*
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa -
Aw, yer just a drunk South African, whadda you know? ;P Seriously, i'm fairly sure we'd be unable to function, as individuals or as a society with out categorizing other people in general ways. There are just too many of them for us to have the luxury of treating them solely as unique individuals. And, when it comes right down to it, people do tend to behave in ways that others expect them to, at least to some extent. When it becomes dangerous though, is when a stereotype casts such a negative light on a person that they cannot be dealt with in any normal way. An acquaintance of mine sees all people with dark skin as quite likely to be dangerous criminals. He has stats to back up his view. Of course, these stats are country-wide, and not at all relevant in a small Midwestern town such as the one he resides in. But he is still shackled by this stereotype of his. My feeling is that while we need stereotypes, we should try to identify them for what they are. Afterall, they can live on long past the time they cease being relevant or useful: There's nothing wrong with a phrase such as "Indian giver" unless someone hears it and actually believes all Indians have a tendancy to take back gifts! :) Shog9 ------ Crazy lady with the shiny shoes, where are you? Kick your feet and calm the space that makes you hollow
Live, Insomnia And The Hole In The Universe
Shog9 wrote: When it becomes dangerous though, is when a stereotype casts such a negative light on a person that they cannot be dealt with in any normal way. I totally agree. I guess my beef with all the negative energy towards stereotypes is the people who just automatically assume I do not have the intelligence to question a stereotype or at least realise when it "applies" and when it does not. I do, honest! As you say there are far too many of us not to have to resort to broad categorisations to function in this world. We simply have to group people, at least initially. We have to start somewhere. It is the people who cling to stereotypes or enforce it without possibility of parol that give stereotypes a bad name. Of course saying all that there is absolutely no way we won't be swayed by a stereotype. If we weren't swayable then a stereotype would fade and become utterly useless. So sadly some people will start out on a lower rung in my mind to other people, simply because of a stereotype I have heard or read. I am human and I challenge anybody to truthfully say they can be 100% open-minded towards a new person after having learnt they are X, Y and Z. You can try, I try, but that is all we can do. Shog9 wrote: Aw, yer just a drunk South African, whadda you know? Sober since the begining of the year (at which point I was so horribly drunk I gave up vodka and became an atheist... :rolleyes:) But give me 20 more days and I will break that spell with a bang! :-D
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa -
Ok so I am sick of people telling me not to use cliches and that stereotypes are wrong. Stereotypes and cliches have come into common usage because they actually are based on some truth. If they weren't then they wouldn't have become what they have become. Italians are greasy, Americans loud, Greeks smell of fish, Australians and South Africans are drunks and Englishmen are lousy lovers. Sorry but there is a big enough percentage of truth in that for their to be a stereotype around it. Stereotypes do not magically occur, they are not generated by one sailors ramblings about some strange land. They are built upon the backs of thousands of opinions and experiences. The same goes for cliches. Cliches are built on usage, because how the cliche says what it says is a good way to say it. And yes of course as with any rule there are exceptions. Obviously don't take stereotypes so to heart that you don't let an Englishman into your bed or leave an Italian near a fire. And don't go spouting cliches left right and centre, say something your own way. But don't go AWOL when you hear a stereotype or a cliche. Or do you disagree?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaYeah, I'm inclined to agree with you. It can be a problem (a) if people take them too seriously or (b) where a country is trying hard to throw off an image (I have to admit that in all honesty, drunk isn't the first thing that springs to mind when I think of South Africa). But all-in-all, people who get offended by even the most harmless stereotype and scream racist at every turn should just grow up. Besides, I've always found that it's best for people to expect the worst of me, then they're rarely disappointed (especially considering your English stereotype :laugh: ). Paul
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Guess my stereotype? Cool, a new stereotype: Swedish people are disagreeable for the hell of it. ;) Though I find Swedish girls highly agreeable... at least in looks and their attitude towards... *Paul shuts up*
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: Though I find Swedish girls highly agreeable... Uh uh. They're way too liberated here.. :-D Ok, any militant feminists reading this: It was a joke! -- Please state the nature of your medical emergency.
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Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you. It can be a problem (a) if people take them too seriously or (b) where a country is trying hard to throw off an image (I have to admit that in all honesty, drunk isn't the first thing that springs to mind when I think of South Africa). But all-in-all, people who get offended by even the most harmless stereotype and scream racist at every turn should just grow up. Besides, I've always found that it's best for people to expect the worst of me, then they're rarely disappointed (especially considering your English stereotype :laugh: ). Paul
Paul Riley wrote: I have to admit that in all honesty, drunk isn't the first thing that springs to mind when I think of South Africa Well when I was doing my list of stereotypes I thought "I had better put South African in or reap the wrath of critics saying I am a hypocrite." But being SAn I could not think of much, so I just lumped us in with the Aussies (who do drink like fish, just go to London and find the nearest pub showing cricket or rugby. Filled with drunk Aussies and South Africans.) So what stereotype of us Southies comes to your mind then? I am actually quite interested. Paul Riley wrote: then they're rarely disappointed (especially considering your English stereotype ). :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Ahhh now there is one great Brit stereotype: That of the underdog coming out tops and breaking expectations. I have always admired that in the Brits.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa -
Paul Watson wrote: Though I find Swedish girls highly agreeable... Uh uh. They're way too liberated here.. :-D Ok, any militant feminists reading this: It was a joke! -- Please state the nature of your medical emergency.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Ok, any militant feminists reading this: It was a joke! Seeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! That is exactly what I mean. You and I make a just-for-fun stereotype joke about Swedish girls and we have to cover ourselves by putting up Anti-Feminist/Anti-Non-Typical-Swedish-Girl shields just to save some face. We have to grovel so as not to be branded as chauvinist pigs (and the sad thing is that the feminists do not realise they are just perpetuating the cycle of stereotyping by calling us chauvinist pigs for making a joke about Swedish girls and their attitude towards sex. So we all end up in the same boat while one appears to the rest of the world to have the moral high ground... pffft! Sick of it!) Really we should not need to, and I am sick of having to do so. As Paul Riley said, people like that just need to grow up.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa -
Shog9 wrote: When it becomes dangerous though, is when a stereotype casts such a negative light on a person that they cannot be dealt with in any normal way. I totally agree. I guess my beef with all the negative energy towards stereotypes is the people who just automatically assume I do not have the intelligence to question a stereotype or at least realise when it "applies" and when it does not. I do, honest! As you say there are far too many of us not to have to resort to broad categorisations to function in this world. We simply have to group people, at least initially. We have to start somewhere. It is the people who cling to stereotypes or enforce it without possibility of parol that give stereotypes a bad name. Of course saying all that there is absolutely no way we won't be swayed by a stereotype. If we weren't swayable then a stereotype would fade and become utterly useless. So sadly some people will start out on a lower rung in my mind to other people, simply because of a stereotype I have heard or read. I am human and I challenge anybody to truthfully say they can be 100% open-minded towards a new person after having learnt they are X, Y and Z. You can try, I try, but that is all we can do. Shog9 wrote: Aw, yer just a drunk South African, whadda you know? Sober since the begining of the year (at which point I was so horribly drunk I gave up vodka and became an atheist... :rolleyes:) But give me 20 more days and I will break that spell with a bang! :-D
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: Sober since the begining of the year What? You give me a stereotype and then later reveal it's not applicable? :mad: Hmm, ok, uh... "Long-winded South African" work for ya? :D Shog9 ------ Crazy lady with the shiny shoes, where are you? Kick your feet and calm the space that makes you hollow
Live, Insomnia And The Hole In The Universe
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Ok, any militant feminists reading this: It was a joke! Seeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! That is exactly what I mean. You and I make a just-for-fun stereotype joke about Swedish girls and we have to cover ourselves by putting up Anti-Feminist/Anti-Non-Typical-Swedish-Girl shields just to save some face. We have to grovel so as not to be branded as chauvinist pigs (and the sad thing is that the feminists do not realise they are just perpetuating the cycle of stereotyping by calling us chauvinist pigs for making a joke about Swedish girls and their attitude towards sex. So we all end up in the same boat while one appears to the rest of the world to have the moral high ground... pffft! Sick of it!) Really we should not need to, and I am sick of having to do so. As Paul Riley said, people like that just need to grow up.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaAmen brother! -- Please state the nature of your medical emergency.
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Paul Riley wrote: I have to admit that in all honesty, drunk isn't the first thing that springs to mind when I think of South Africa Well when I was doing my list of stereotypes I thought "I had better put South African in or reap the wrath of critics saying I am a hypocrite." But being SAn I could not think of much, so I just lumped us in with the Aussies (who do drink like fish, just go to London and find the nearest pub showing cricket or rugby. Filled with drunk Aussies and South Africans.) So what stereotype of us Southies comes to your mind then? I am actually quite interested. Paul Riley wrote: then they're rarely disappointed (especially considering your English stereotype ). :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Ahhh now there is one great Brit stereotype: That of the underdog coming out tops and breaking expectations. I have always admired that in the Brits.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: So what stereotype of us Southies comes to your mind then? I am actually quite interested. Actually, THIS[^] is usually the first thing that springs to my mind. Old but a classic from the Spitting Image crowd, I'll never forget it. Oddly, I can't find the lyrics anywhere on the net. Paul
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Ok so I am sick of people telling me not to use cliches and that stereotypes are wrong. Stereotypes and cliches have come into common usage because they actually are based on some truth. If they weren't then they wouldn't have become what they have become. Italians are greasy, Americans loud, Greeks smell of fish, Australians and South Africans are drunks and Englishmen are lousy lovers. Sorry but there is a big enough percentage of truth in that for their to be a stereotype around it. Stereotypes do not magically occur, they are not generated by one sailors ramblings about some strange land. They are built upon the backs of thousands of opinions and experiences. The same goes for cliches. Cliches are built on usage, because how the cliche says what it says is a good way to say it. And yes of course as with any rule there are exceptions. Obviously don't take stereotypes so to heart that you don't let an Englishman into your bed or leave an Italian near a fire. And don't go spouting cliches left right and centre, say something your own way. But don't go AWOL when you hear a stereotype or a cliche. Or do you disagree?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaSo that makes me an "Angerlo-Italiani-Ostrallyan-Amerikun-Seuth Efrican"? * You have to say it out loud to fully appreciate it :cool:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
Whales are drinking all our water and eating our sailors...
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So that makes me an "Angerlo-Italiani-Ostrallyan-Amerikun-Seuth Efrican"? * You have to say it out loud to fully appreciate it :cool:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
Whales are drinking all our water and eating our sailors...
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Paul Watson wrote: Though I find Swedish girls highly agreeable... Uh uh. They're way too liberated here.. :-D Ok, any militant feminists reading this: It was a joke! -- Please state the nature of your medical emergency.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: They're way too liberated here.. Can I import some of them? Word of the day: Rotundacrat
Extra Credit will be awarded for: Quasimobo... -
Paul Watson wrote: So what stereotype of us Southies comes to your mind then? I am actually quite interested. Actually, THIS[^] is usually the first thing that springs to my mind. Old but a classic from the Spitting Image crowd, I'll never forget it. Oddly, I can't find the lyrics anywhere on the net. Paul
Hmmm... I actually have met a nice South African. She was an exchange student in my High School by the name of Cathy Gurney, and a nicer person I have rarely met. It was very saddenning to learn that, because of her visit to the US and her exposure to undesirable racial attitudes, she would be watched forever more by the police upon her return, and would never have a chance to be accepted into the trusted body politic. What a sacrifice to make for the opportunity to see and learn about a new land...:( Word of the day: Rotundacrat
Extra Credit will be awarded for: Quasimobo... -
Ok so I am sick of people telling me not to use cliches and that stereotypes are wrong. Stereotypes and cliches have come into common usage because they actually are based on some truth. If they weren't then they wouldn't have become what they have become. Italians are greasy, Americans loud, Greeks smell of fish, Australians and South Africans are drunks and Englishmen are lousy lovers. Sorry but there is a big enough percentage of truth in that for their to be a stereotype around it. Stereotypes do not magically occur, they are not generated by one sailors ramblings about some strange land. They are built upon the backs of thousands of opinions and experiences. The same goes for cliches. Cliches are built on usage, because how the cliche says what it says is a good way to say it. And yes of course as with any rule there are exceptions. Obviously don't take stereotypes so to heart that you don't let an Englishman into your bed or leave an Italian near a fire. And don't go spouting cliches left right and centre, say something your own way. But don't go AWOL when you hear a stereotype or a cliche. Or do you disagree?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: Obviously don't take stereotypes so to heart that you don't let an Englishman into your bed or leave an Italian near a fire. And don't go spouting cliches left right and centre, say something your own way. Just don't let me anywhere near a sheep either. I have lost count of the number of illegitimate lambs I am putting through school.
qwote undur construktshun!?!!
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Hmmm... I actually have met a nice South African. She was an exchange student in my High School by the name of Cathy Gurney, and a nicer person I have rarely met. It was very saddenning to learn that, because of her visit to the US and her exposure to undesirable racial attitudes, she would be watched forever more by the police upon her return, and would never have a chance to be accepted into the trusted body politic. What a sacrifice to make for the opportunity to see and learn about a new land...:( Word of the day: Rotundacrat
Extra Credit will be awarded for: Quasimobo...And that, Roger, is the exact point of this thread. I've met a nice South African too, several in fact. One that I met in Florida last year... ooo, if only I could have been single for a while :rolleyes: However, it's a stereotype that South Africans are arrogant bastards with no sense of humour, and not a completely unfair stereotype in the days of apartheid when that was written (which was my point about countries that are trying to throw off an image). I have ABSOLUTELY no doubt that Paul is a nice South African and I know he has a sense of humour, so I know that I can post a link to that without having to qualify it by saying "remember this was written in the days of apartheid" or "I'm sure this doesn't apply to you, Paul". More people should be like that in my opinion. Say what you like about the English, I won't be offended. I may argue the point if you make a serious political statement about the country but if you make a glib generalisation then why should I care? Paul
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So that makes me an "Angerlo-Italiani-Ostrallyan-Amerikun-Seuth Efrican"? * You have to say it out loud to fully appreciate it :cool:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
Whales are drinking all our water and eating our sailors...
David Wulff wrote: Seuth Efrican Have you seen a show called "Time Team"? It's a show about archeology. They dig stuff up all over the UK - mostly roman stuff :) Anyway, there's this tall red headed archeologist on the show which talks with an accent just like you wrote - Seuth African. Do you know if the guy on the show is south african or if he's just talking with yet another UK accent? :) -- Please state the nature of your medical emergency.