Ron Paul’s Amendment To Audit The Federal Reserve Approved
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
Better to devalue it first and skip the panic.
The point of this whole conversation is to actually recognize that this will come. You've again proved my point. Yes, fractional reserve banking will create these bank runs. Again, you're saying what I've been saying. I think that you should really see this is proving my point; that fiat currencies eventually end. Again, look at the Weimar republic, Zimbabwe, the USSR, etc. I'm glad that you're seeing that the dollar is not immune to the fact that it is now completely and absolutely fiat, and that fiat money will eventually amount to a value of NOTHING, just as the value of the paper it is printed on. You are proving my point sir, and I really hope you open your eyes here.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
SAVINGS accounts are supposed to be safe from harm. They are, thanks to the FDIC. Investment accounts are inherently risky, and people are informed of this risk before they put money in. Most retirement programs let you put some portion into a "Stable value" fund, which is essentially just treasury bonds. That's safe.
No. Treasury bonds are NOT safe. Especially where, as I've said, the dollar is collapsing. They are MORE SAFE, but not completely safe. If inflation occurs at 3% and the treasury bond only aggregates at about 1.5%, you're losing 1.5% a year. But that's not even the point... the point is that the National Debt is over 12 trillion, and even according to the government, the debt will reach 24 trillion in about 8 years. So if the government goes bankrupt, those treasurys don't mean a damned thing.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
A Ponzi scheme is a very specific form of financial fraud, not just a synonym for "Bad accounting practices."
And "Bad Accounting Practices" is just so PC.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
But most people don't want to get 2-3% a year when they can put money into more risky assets and pull in 5-15%.
Two things wrong here. A) you're assuming that you know what most people like. Realize that people are very shy if not downright scared to put their money into investing, but they're bombarded with it everyday on TV. B) True conservatives would not risk that much. But they're told to do it. What I would do is just save the money... but then the money loses value through inflation, so you basically have
josda1000 wrote:
The point of this whole conversation is to actually recognize that this will come. You've again proved my point. Yes, fractional reserve banking will create these bank runs
You're misreading. I'm saying that it's better to devalue it BEFORE the bank runs, in order to prevent them.
josda1000 wrote:
So if the government goes bankrupt, those treasurys don't mean a damned thing.
True, but if the government goes bankrupt, I don't think anyone's going to care about the economy anymore, because the entire country would be in anarchy and chaos.
josda1000 wrote:
And "Bad Accounting Practices" is just so PC.
Hey, just talking terminology here... A Ponzi Scheme is a very specific form of fraud... Call it fraud if you want, but calling it a Ponzi Scheme doesn't apply. It's like calling every car crash a DUI. Pick another term if you want, but people are calling every corrupt accountant and cheating hedge fund manager a Ponzi schemer, just because Big Bad Bernie has monopolized the papers so much :)
josda1000 wrote:
Two things wrong here. A) you're assuming that you know what most people like. Realize that people are very shy if not downright scared to put their money into investing, but they're bombarded with it everyday on TV. B) True conservatives would not risk that much. But they're told to do it. What I would do is just save the money... but then the money loses value through inflation, so you basically have to invest in something, or just get gold/silver. There's no choice. But basic human nature tells you to save at least SOME of your money, not to just throw it all into a company and cross your fingers.
People are greedy. It's human nature. Everyone wants more... Ok, not EVERYONE, but generally people want more money. Can you really argue with that? If you want to just keep up with inflation, buy T-Bonds. Sure, it's not as stable as gold-backed, but it's better than losing 3% a year.
josda1000 wrote:
Look, the market always recovers. But it starts with the little man.... I think more of us should do such a thing and not be so freakin scared of what is to come instead of delaying it. We're living in a basic fantasy here. I think you do realize this, you're just angering me on purpose.
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josda1000 wrote:
Good, I'm glad you realize that. So why do you listen to them?
I don't listen to politicians to get information. I crawl the Internet for that. On those rare occasions that I watch politicians, it's to see how they present themselves on camera. Personally, I think the primary job of the President is just making us look good to the rest of the world. Dubya made us look like a laughing stock... Obama looks like he has a brain, and that goes a long way.
josda1000 wrote:
I'm just asking that you think of both ends of this issue. Inflation is a tax. We were prosperous for not having so many obvious taxes and inflation at the same time back in the 1800s. Now we have income taxes and inflation (more than the natural inflation of gold, obviously). It's just common sense.
Sure, inflation is a tax... But if we didn't have inflation, the government would just increase the actual tax rate a few percent instead. Net result, we get screwed the same amount. I've actually been reading a few articles on either side of the gold standard issue, and I'm still leaning toward fiat currency. Whether it's being managed properly is debatable, but I don't think the gold standard is the answer.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
Ian, this has been a great talk. BTW my name is Josh. So I just wanted to commend you on your end of the debate, and I'd also like to ask if I could use your name on my local cable access show next week. My show is basically an hour long, and I do an episode once every two weeks. My tag line is that it's a libertarian opinion show, explaining how the government is growing and the dollar is losing value. I'd like to use this forum debate in the show, if that's ok with you.
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Ian, this has been a great talk. BTW my name is Josh. So I just wanted to commend you on your end of the debate, and I'd also like to ask if I could use your name on my local cable access show next week. My show is basically an hour long, and I do an episode once every two weeks. My tag line is that it's a libertarian opinion show, explaining how the government is growing and the dollar is losing value. I'd like to use this forum debate in the show, if that's ok with you.
I'd rather you didn't, actually. I have no interest in that kind of publicity. If you want to post the conversation, feel free, but I'd rather my name be left out.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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josda1000 wrote:
Though that wouldn't stop them from creating bubbles; as seen in the great depression, the housing, the automotive sector, etc.
This is pretty ignorant. Are you CSS posting on another account, or just someone like minded ? The market creates bubbles, not any secret cabal. government policy can affect how things play out, but they can't FORCE a bubble to form.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
Why you referring to inflation as if someone sat down and said "Hey, let's make the money less valuable each year!"
Conspiracy theorists tend to act out of insecurity. A world where everything is controlled by evil bogey men, is more predictable than one where stuff just happens.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.