8 hours
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So, bit of a discussion going on with my manager. If you were given a list of 9 bugs, would you say that 8 hours is enough time to fix them all, build an installer, burn 5 DVDs, test them thoroughly on two machines, and send them ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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So, bit of a discussion going on with my manager. If you were given a list of 9 bugs, would you say that 8 hours is enough time to fix them all, build an installer, burn 5 DVDs, test them thoroughly on two machines, and send them ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Nope, not even in Bizzaroworld.
CCC solved so far: 2 (including a Hard One!) 37!?!! - Randall, Clerks
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So, bit of a discussion going on with my manager. If you were given a list of 9 bugs, would you say that 8 hours is enough time to fix them all, build an installer, burn 5 DVDs, test them thoroughly on two machines, and send them ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
would you say that 8 hours is enough time to fix them all,
Possibly
build an installer,
You can build a simple installer very easily in the latest versions of Visual Studio, so definitely here.
burn 5 DVDs,
Might need multiple machines to burn them in parallel , but yes.
test them thoroughly on two machines,
Tight, but might just manage it.
and send them ?
With your luck with public and private organisations, not a chance
Graham Librarians rule, Ook!
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Christian Graus wrote:
would you say that 8 hours is enough time to fix them all,
Possibly
build an installer,
You can build a simple installer very easily in the latest versions of Visual Studio, so definitely here.
burn 5 DVDs,
Might need multiple machines to burn them in parallel , but yes.
test them thoroughly on two machines,
Tight, but might just manage it.
and send them ?
With your luck with public and private organisations, not a chance
Graham Librarians rule, Ook!
Graham Shanks wrote:
Possibly
Yes, this was not an issue.
Graham Shanks wrote:
You can build a simple installer very easily in the latest versions of Visual Studio, so definitely here.
The installer in VS is useless for us, we use Advanced Installer. The main issue was simply getting all the ducks in a row to create the DVD with all the right files.
Graham Shanks wrote:
Might need multiple machines to burn them in parallel , but yes.
Not an option here. They were all done on my Vista notebook.
Graham Shanks wrote:
Tight, but might just manage it.
This is the core issue. Your definition of testing is obviously far looser than mine, or you're just used to writing far more trivial software than me.
Graham Shanks wrote:
With your luck with public and private organisations, not a chance
*grin*
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Graham Shanks wrote:
Possibly
Yes, this was not an issue.
Graham Shanks wrote:
You can build a simple installer very easily in the latest versions of Visual Studio, so definitely here.
The installer in VS is useless for us, we use Advanced Installer. The main issue was simply getting all the ducks in a row to create the DVD with all the right files.
Graham Shanks wrote:
Might need multiple machines to burn them in parallel , but yes.
Not an option here. They were all done on my Vista notebook.
Graham Shanks wrote:
Tight, but might just manage it.
This is the core issue. Your definition of testing is obviously far looser than mine, or you're just used to writing far more trivial software than me.
Graham Shanks wrote:
With your luck with public and private organisations, not a chance
*grin*
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
Your definition of testing is obviously far looser than mine, or you're just used to writing far more trivial software than me.
Probably not, the project I'm working on now has an acceptance programme measured in months. On the other hand, the previous project had an automated test suite that tested out the business logic, which took about 15 minutes to run, plus an test schedule for the GUI components, which took an hour to run. The libraries my group produce use continuous integration, which takes upwards of 75 minutes to cycle; testing a single library for release could be less than half that. So test time depends entirely on what your product is and how you test it. I generally would feel uncomfortable with less than half a day for testing and producing the media for release for a lot of the software we produce.
Graham Librarians rule, Ook!
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Christian Graus wrote:
Your definition of testing is obviously far looser than mine, or you're just used to writing far more trivial software than me.
Probably not, the project I'm working on now has an acceptance programme measured in months. On the other hand, the previous project had an automated test suite that tested out the business logic, which took about 15 minutes to run, plus an test schedule for the GUI components, which took an hour to run. The libraries my group produce use continuous integration, which takes upwards of 75 minutes to cycle; testing a single library for release could be less than half that. So test time depends entirely on what your product is and how you test it. I generally would feel uncomfortable with less than half a day for testing and producing the media for release for a lot of the software we produce.
Graham Librarians rule, Ook!
Our program is almost entirely visual, I can't figure out a way to write useful unit tests for it. The 9 changes were across enough of the program that I'd have considered a full day less than adequate to test it fully.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Our program is almost entirely visual, I can't figure out a way to write useful unit tests for it. The 9 changes were across enough of the program that I'd have considered a full day less than adequate to test it fully.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I feel for you. I've not found a decent UI tester that saves more time than it costs. The old human following a test schedule is still the best way, I reckon
Graham Librarians rule, Ook!
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So, bit of a discussion going on with my manager. If you were given a list of 9 bugs, would you say that 8 hours is enough time to fix them all, build an installer, burn 5 DVDs, test them thoroughly on two machines, and send them ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
test them thoroughly
Most of the time I just see testing taking a back seat to getting it out the door. Doesn't thrill me much. Where I'm at now takes days to get things released. It takes a while to get through all the paper work and get the people who requested the changes to sign off on them.
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I feel for you. I've not found a decent UI tester that saves more time than it costs. The old human following a test schedule is still the best way, I reckon
Graham Librarians rule, Ook!
Well, I use to do some QA a while ago. We used Winrunner on the back end and had a front end harness to our UI via winrunner. We created tests [keyword driven]. A 200 line test takes about 30 min. to create: Prototype: Window|Control|Action|Expected Result I would crank out 1000+ line tests all day long. The harness is really the only had part, esp. if you have custom widgets.
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Christian Graus wrote:
test them thoroughly
Most of the time I just see testing taking a back seat to getting it out the door. Doesn't thrill me much. Where I'm at now takes days to get things released. It takes a while to get through all the paper work and get the people who requested the changes to sign off on them.
Sign off is a pain. The last two places wanted everything now but when it came time to sign off it took forever. Then they go to management and complain that IT did not finish in a timely manner.
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Sign off is a pain. The last two places wanted everything now but when it came time to sign off it took forever. Then they go to management and complain that IT did not finish in a timely manner.
I've been praying for a sign-off since I dropped an app in November. If only one freaking person would pay one scrap of attention to one frakking little report they were willing to accept and order at 80 hours. It's close to two crying damn months and I don't even have one sentence, even an animal grunt, of feedback. I was supposed to leave tomorrow (3am) for the mine, today they postponed another week; the third one-week postponment in a row.