Ron Paul and a Timeline of CIA Crimes and Atrocities
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You've out done yourself this time, that has to be the longest post yet to date I have ever seen.
Yes, cut and paste of the entire article: Kurt Nimmo Infowars.com January 21, 2010 Why bother to post a link?
Bob Emmett @ Ynys Thanatos
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I may tend to believe some of this. HOWEVER! A citation is not "citations". You referenced youtube videos of Ron Paul's speech, which is relevant. BUT you blatantly copied all of that text from a news article, which is infowars, as usual, and is only ONE citation. You don't understand what it means to be independent. Sorry. I'ma give you your own political party, "Crazy-extreme Party". Call me stupid, but are you really out of the box at all? You seriously are destroying the cause. YES the CIA does crazy stuff, and completely unconstitutional stuff, and they should never have been created in a free republican society (small "R" republic). But too bad you really don't see that you're still spitting hogwash. Like was previously said, DO something. Don't just inform people that don't want to talk about a conspiracy theory that you can't prove. DIG. Educate yourself instead of relying on media, whether it's mainstream media or "independent" media. This is definitely the last time i'm posting something like this. YOU have to wake up. Do you really know the truth? Do your own research.
josda1000 wrote:
YES the CIA does crazy stuff, and completely unconstitutional stuff
Now, I don't know ANYONE who would disagree with that statement.
josda1000 wrote:
and they should never have been created in a free republican society (small "R" republic).
If the whole world was a free republican society (Or multiple ones), that may be true... But there are a lot of messed-up countries out there, and the CIA does serve a purpose. Keep in mind that the CIA is SUPPOSED to only operate outside of our borders (Or was originally supposed to - I dunno what the hell they're doing now). CIA = Foreign intelligence (Spy on foreigners) NSA = National intelligence (Spy on ourselves) The thing is... The CIA and NSA seem to use completely different strategies and tactics, which makes sense. The NSA should be following the law to the letter, while the CIA operates outside of our jurisdiction and can bend the rules in certain environments (Authoritarian regimes, mainly). The problems start when the CIA, or even just their tactics, are applied here at home. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that was the whole reason the agencies were kept separate, and now we have Dubya's DHS to connect them together. Sounds like a bad move to me.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
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Yes, cut and paste of the entire article: Kurt Nimmo Infowars.com January 21, 2010 Why bother to post a link?
Bob Emmett @ Ynys Thanatos
Exactly
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josda1000 wrote:
YES the CIA does crazy stuff, and completely unconstitutional stuff
Now, I don't know ANYONE who would disagree with that statement.
josda1000 wrote:
and they should never have been created in a free republican society (small "R" republic).
If the whole world was a free republican society (Or multiple ones), that may be true... But there are a lot of messed-up countries out there, and the CIA does serve a purpose. Keep in mind that the CIA is SUPPOSED to only operate outside of our borders (Or was originally supposed to - I dunno what the hell they're doing now). CIA = Foreign intelligence (Spy on foreigners) NSA = National intelligence (Spy on ourselves) The thing is... The CIA and NSA seem to use completely different strategies and tactics, which makes sense. The NSA should be following the law to the letter, while the CIA operates outside of our jurisdiction and can bend the rules in certain environments (Authoritarian regimes, mainly). The problems start when the CIA, or even just their tactics, are applied here at home. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that was the whole reason the agencies were kept separate, and now we have Dubya's DHS to connect them together. Sounds like a bad move to me.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Keep in mind that the CIA is SUPPOSED to only operate outside of our borders
That's precisely where it all goes wrong, and why they should not have been created in the first place. Yes, they are theoretically to work outside of the United States of America. But once you give any authority to anyone, they will try to get away with more. Firstly, it's unconstitutional to terrorize and is not explicitly delegated as a power to Congress. Second, because it is not a power to Congress, they couldn't delegate the power to anyone if they didn't have it in the first place. Third, it's not in our form of government: "Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our form of government." -- Thomas Jefferson. But if you give a power to an institution that is not accountable and does not tell the truth to the people of its society, how are the people to trust its government? The founders had it right: to secure the liberty of a society, the society must be diligent to keep accountable its government.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
CIA = Foreign intelligence (Spy on foreigners) NSA = National intelligence (Spy on ourselves)
The CIA does actually spy internally, not just the NSA, not to mention the FBI with self-written search warrants and wiretapping. The CIA unmasked themselves (poor choice of words, but apropos nonetheless) when the libertarian ex-wrestler Jesse Ventura took office after being elected governor of Minnesota. Yes, they work internally.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
The NSA should be following the law to the letter
That's up for debate. The Constitution gives no authority to the federal government to do such a thing, but they did it anyway. No accountability at all...
Ian Shlasko wrote:
while the CIA operates outside of our jurisdiction and can bend the rules in certain environments (Authoritarian regimes, mainly)
Yes. They do operate outside of our jurisdiction. That's precisely the point... they shouldn't have been created at all. The federal government should only stay within its jurisdiction. But if you give up more power, it'll go out of control. As we are starting to see today...
Ian Shlasko wrote:
The problems start when the CIA, or even just their tactics, are applied here at h
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
Keep in mind that the CIA is SUPPOSED to only operate outside of our borders
That's precisely where it all goes wrong, and why they should not have been created in the first place. Yes, they are theoretically to work outside of the United States of America. But once you give any authority to anyone, they will try to get away with more. Firstly, it's unconstitutional to terrorize and is not explicitly delegated as a power to Congress. Second, because it is not a power to Congress, they couldn't delegate the power to anyone if they didn't have it in the first place. Third, it's not in our form of government: "Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our form of government." -- Thomas Jefferson. But if you give a power to an institution that is not accountable and does not tell the truth to the people of its society, how are the people to trust its government? The founders had it right: to secure the liberty of a society, the society must be diligent to keep accountable its government.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
CIA = Foreign intelligence (Spy on foreigners) NSA = National intelligence (Spy on ourselves)
The CIA does actually spy internally, not just the NSA, not to mention the FBI with self-written search warrants and wiretapping. The CIA unmasked themselves (poor choice of words, but apropos nonetheless) when the libertarian ex-wrestler Jesse Ventura took office after being elected governor of Minnesota. Yes, they work internally.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
The NSA should be following the law to the letter
That's up for debate. The Constitution gives no authority to the federal government to do such a thing, but they did it anyway. No accountability at all...
Ian Shlasko wrote:
while the CIA operates outside of our jurisdiction and can bend the rules in certain environments (Authoritarian regimes, mainly)
Yes. They do operate outside of our jurisdiction. That's precisely the point... they shouldn't have been created at all. The federal government should only stay within its jurisdiction. But if you give up more power, it'll go out of control. As we are starting to see today...
Ian Shlasko wrote:
The problems start when the CIA, or even just their tactics, are applied here at h
josda1000 wrote:
Firstly, it's unconstitutional to terrorize and is not explicitly delegated as a power to Congress. Second, because it is not a power to Congress, they couldn't delegate the power to anyone if they didn't have it in the first place.
The original PURPOSE of the CIA was to gather foreign intelligence, not to "terrorize." With some of their covert ops, they seem to have exceeded that mandate, but unfortunately, sometimes that's the lesser of two evils. But regardless, Congress does have the power "To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces." Now, I'm no expert, obviously, and this might not be the actual part they used to justify the National Security Act of '47, but it seems to me that the CIA could be classified as a "force."
josda1000 wrote:
Third, it's not in our form of government: "Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our form of government." -- Thomas Jefferson.
This isn't conquest, though. Conquest implies territorial expansion, and it's a bit of a stretch to refer to CIA black ops as "conquest." Just looking at the worst things they do (Or that we're pretty confident that they do)... Assassination and destabilization. They push aside the dictators, but we don't move in and take over (Granted, the dictator that comes in after isn't always better).
josda1000 wrote:
The CIA does actually spy internally, not just the NSA, not to mention the FBI with self-written search warrants and wiretapping.
As I said, the CIA is SUPPOSED to operate outside of our borders. When their target enters the US, they're supposed to pass the buck to the FBI. Any domestic spying done by the CIA is, I agree, a problem, due to their differing tactics (As I mentioned). As for the FBI wiretapping... Yes, also a problem, but we're talking about the CIA here. By the way, gotta correct myself... The FBI is actually the only agency that's supposed to operate within our borders. The CIA and NSA are both supposed to be foreign intelligence. NSA monitors communications, CIA operates field agents. (Again, SUPPOSED to be... Their mandate has grown a bit too much over the years) Basically, I do agree that they've exceeded their mandates (Patriot act, DHS, etc), but I also believe that in their original capacity, they are necessary. EDIT: Clarifying last statemen
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
Keep in mind that the CIA is SUPPOSED to only operate outside of our borders
That's precisely where it all goes wrong, and why they should not have been created in the first place. Yes, they are theoretically to work outside of the United States of America. But once you give any authority to anyone, they will try to get away with more. Firstly, it's unconstitutional to terrorize and is not explicitly delegated as a power to Congress. Second, because it is not a power to Congress, they couldn't delegate the power to anyone if they didn't have it in the first place. Third, it's not in our form of government: "Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our form of government." -- Thomas Jefferson. But if you give a power to an institution that is not accountable and does not tell the truth to the people of its society, how are the people to trust its government? The founders had it right: to secure the liberty of a society, the society must be diligent to keep accountable its government.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
CIA = Foreign intelligence (Spy on foreigners) NSA = National intelligence (Spy on ourselves)
The CIA does actually spy internally, not just the NSA, not to mention the FBI with self-written search warrants and wiretapping. The CIA unmasked themselves (poor choice of words, but apropos nonetheless) when the libertarian ex-wrestler Jesse Ventura took office after being elected governor of Minnesota. Yes, they work internally.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
The NSA should be following the law to the letter
That's up for debate. The Constitution gives no authority to the federal government to do such a thing, but they did it anyway. No accountability at all...
Ian Shlasko wrote:
while the CIA operates outside of our jurisdiction and can bend the rules in certain environments (Authoritarian regimes, mainly)
Yes. They do operate outside of our jurisdiction. That's precisely the point... they shouldn't have been created at all. The federal government should only stay within its jurisdiction. But if you give up more power, it'll go out of control. As we are starting to see today...
Ian Shlasko wrote:
The problems start when the CIA, or even just their tactics, are applied here at h
josda1000 wrote:
The federal government should only stay within its jurisdiction.
That's a bad move. You want a country that is not seen as isolationist. That and sometimes, you really do need to step in and stop stuff that is just wrong. But as always, our government is kinda stupid. Sticks its nose in the wrong places, pushes the wrong buttons and generally makes people mad when it doesn't tread lightly or when certain groups get out of hand.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dECSYm5bSM[^] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYOVQezWaCY[^] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9VxnCBD9W4[^] Citations here[^] A video of Ron Paul calling out the CIA at the Campaign for Liberty Regional Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, earlier this week has gone viral on the internet. In the video, Paul declared the CIA “runs everything” and is the dark force behind illegal invasions and occupations around the world. He said we need to get rid of the agency. The CIA has committed thousands of illegal and immoral acts around the world, including almost unfathomable mass murder and countless acts of terrorism and torture. “The CIA and the big corporations were, in my experience, in step with each other,” writes former CIA agent John Stockwell. “the CIA had been running thousands of operations over the years… there have been about 3,000 major covert operations and over 10,000 minor operations… all designed to disrupt, destabilize, or modify the activities of other countries… But they are all illegal and they all disrupt the normal functioning, often the democratic functioning, of other societies.” The CIA recruited Nazi war criminals. It is not known as the “Cocaine Import Agency” for nothing (see video below). It has engaged in assassination and covert chemical and biological warfare. The late Steve Kangas (who allegedly committed suicide in a 39th floor bathroom at One Oxford Center, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, immediately outside the offices of foundations run by known CIA operative Richard Mellon Scaife) compiled in the 1990s the following disturbing list of CIA crimes around the world: 1929 The culture we lost — Secretary of State Henry Stimson refuses to endorse a code-breaking operation, saying, “Gentlemen do not read each other’s mail.” 1941 COI created — In preparation for World War II, Preside
TLDR: The CIA is a bunch of jerks. Not really news here, everyone knows they have been stupidly overstepping their bounds and they have a bunch of guys with every James Bond movie in their collection to which they spend quality time with a tissue watching them and wishing they could just blow away bad guys all day long.
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I may tend to believe some of this. HOWEVER! A citation is not "citations". You referenced youtube videos of Ron Paul's speech, which is relevant. BUT you blatantly copied all of that text from a news article, which is infowars, as usual, and is only ONE citation. You don't understand what it means to be independent. Sorry. I'ma give you your own political party, "Crazy-extreme Party". Call me stupid, but are you really out of the box at all? You seriously are destroying the cause. YES the CIA does crazy stuff, and completely unconstitutional stuff, and they should never have been created in a free republican society (small "R" republic). But too bad you really don't see that you're still spitting hogwash. Like was previously said, DO something. Don't just inform people that don't want to talk about a conspiracy theory that you can't prove. DIG. Educate yourself instead of relying on media, whether it's mainstream media or "independent" media. This is definitely the last time i'm posting something like this. YOU have to wake up. Do you really know the truth? Do your own research.
A lot of what he posted is probably correct, but, you are right, the big issue with CSS is that he copies and pastes and does not comprehend, so if you try to discuss, he will just call you names b/c he doesn't comprehend the issues he posts, not in a way that he can discuss them. He just reads them and thinks 'yeah, THAT'S why I have failed at life. The CIA'.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I may tend to believe some of this. HOWEVER! A citation is not "citations". You referenced youtube videos of Ron Paul's speech, which is relevant. BUT you blatantly copied all of that text from a news article, which is infowars, as usual, and is only ONE citation. You don't understand what it means to be independent. Sorry. I'ma give you your own political party, "Crazy-extreme Party". Call me stupid, but are you really out of the box at all? You seriously are destroying the cause. YES the CIA does crazy stuff, and completely unconstitutional stuff, and they should never have been created in a free republican society (small "R" republic). But too bad you really don't see that you're still spitting hogwash. Like was previously said, DO something. Don't just inform people that don't want to talk about a conspiracy theory that you can't prove. DIG. Educate yourself instead of relying on media, whether it's mainstream media or "independent" media. This is definitely the last time i'm posting something like this. YOU have to wake up. Do you really know the truth? Do your own research.
You are becoming an annoyance. You should check the inforwars site and you will see there are citations scattered about in the article itself. Instead of crying and browning your pants, why don't you just look into it. Use the Freedom of Information Act to get original scans direct from the government for your TV show or something.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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josda1000 wrote:
The federal government should only stay within its jurisdiction.
That's a bad move. You want a country that is not seen as isolationist. That and sometimes, you really do need to step in and stop stuff that is just wrong. But as always, our government is kinda stupid. Sticks its nose in the wrong places, pushes the wrong buttons and generally makes people mad when it doesn't tread lightly or when certain groups get out of hand.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
You want a country that is not seen as isolationist.
The purpose of boarders are to isolate. You want isolationism. Isolationism is good.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
Keep in mind that the CIA is SUPPOSED to only operate outside of our borders
That's precisely where it all goes wrong, and why they should not have been created in the first place. Yes, they are theoretically to work outside of the United States of America. But once you give any authority to anyone, they will try to get away with more. Firstly, it's unconstitutional to terrorize and is not explicitly delegated as a power to Congress. Second, because it is not a power to Congress, they couldn't delegate the power to anyone if they didn't have it in the first place. Third, it's not in our form of government: "Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our form of government." -- Thomas Jefferson. But if you give a power to an institution that is not accountable and does not tell the truth to the people of its society, how are the people to trust its government? The founders had it right: to secure the liberty of a society, the society must be diligent to keep accountable its government.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
CIA = Foreign intelligence (Spy on foreigners) NSA = National intelligence (Spy on ourselves)
The CIA does actually spy internally, not just the NSA, not to mention the FBI with self-written search warrants and wiretapping. The CIA unmasked themselves (poor choice of words, but apropos nonetheless) when the libertarian ex-wrestler Jesse Ventura took office after being elected governor of Minnesota. Yes, they work internally.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
The NSA should be following the law to the letter
That's up for debate. The Constitution gives no authority to the federal government to do such a thing, but they did it anyway. No accountability at all...
Ian Shlasko wrote:
while the CIA operates outside of our jurisdiction and can bend the rules in certain environments (Authoritarian regimes, mainly)
Yes. They do operate outside of our jurisdiction. That's precisely the point... they shouldn't have been created at all. The federal government should only stay within its jurisdiction. But if you give up more power, it'll go out of control. As we are starting to see today...
Ian Shlasko wrote:
The problems start when the CIA, or even just their tactics, are applied here at h
josda1000 wrote:
That's precisely where it all goes wrong, and why they should not have been created in the first place.
Citation needed.
josda1000 wrote:
But once you give any authority to anyone, they will try to get away with more.
Citation needed.
josda1000 wrote:
The CIA does actually spy internally
Citation needed.
josda1000 wrote:
The CIA unmasked themselves (poor choice of words, but apropos nonetheless) when the libertarian ex-wrestler Jesse Ventura took office after being elected governor of Minnesota.
Citation needed.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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A lot of what he posted is probably correct, but, you are right, the big issue with CSS is that he copies and pastes and does not comprehend, so if you try to discuss, he will just call you names b/c he doesn't comprehend the issues he posts, not in a way that he can discuss them. He just reads them and thinks 'yeah, THAT'S why I have failed at life. The CIA'.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
He just reads them and thinks 'yeah, THAT'S why I have failed at life. The CIA'
I thought it was Climategate... Or was that last week's excuse? :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
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josda1000 wrote:
Firstly, it's unconstitutional to terrorize and is not explicitly delegated as a power to Congress. Second, because it is not a power to Congress, they couldn't delegate the power to anyone if they didn't have it in the first place.
The original PURPOSE of the CIA was to gather foreign intelligence, not to "terrorize." With some of their covert ops, they seem to have exceeded that mandate, but unfortunately, sometimes that's the lesser of two evils. But regardless, Congress does have the power "To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces." Now, I'm no expert, obviously, and this might not be the actual part they used to justify the National Security Act of '47, but it seems to me that the CIA could be classified as a "force."
josda1000 wrote:
Third, it's not in our form of government: "Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our form of government." -- Thomas Jefferson.
This isn't conquest, though. Conquest implies territorial expansion, and it's a bit of a stretch to refer to CIA black ops as "conquest." Just looking at the worst things they do (Or that we're pretty confident that they do)... Assassination and destabilization. They push aside the dictators, but we don't move in and take over (Granted, the dictator that comes in after isn't always better).
josda1000 wrote:
The CIA does actually spy internally, not just the NSA, not to mention the FBI with self-written search warrants and wiretapping.
As I said, the CIA is SUPPOSED to operate outside of our borders. When their target enters the US, they're supposed to pass the buck to the FBI. Any domestic spying done by the CIA is, I agree, a problem, due to their differing tactics (As I mentioned). As for the FBI wiretapping... Yes, also a problem, but we're talking about the CIA here. By the way, gotta correct myself... The FBI is actually the only agency that's supposed to operate within our borders. The CIA and NSA are both supposed to be foreign intelligence. NSA monitors communications, CIA operates field agents. (Again, SUPPOSED to be... Their mandate has grown a bit too much over the years) Basically, I do agree that they've exceeded their mandates (Patriot act, DHS, etc), but I also believe that in their original capacity, they are necessary. EDIT: Clarifying last statemen
Noooo... both of you have it wrong. You should be friendly with all, but entagle yourselves with none. Isolationism is usually only implemented in a totally authoritarian state (AKA Cuba, China...) We should defend our borders, but it doesn't mean that we seal the borders. Since the CIA deals in covert action, of course we have alliances that us normal folk don't understand at all. Why is there so much confusion? How about this: bring the troops home, destroy the NSA and CIA, and everyone would be happy again. The CIA and MI6 are the ones creating problems, not "extremist muslims" or "right-wing extremists" or "terrorists" in general. BTW: This is an opinion post. Citation not necessary.
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josda1000 wrote:
That's precisely where it all goes wrong, and why they should not have been created in the first place.
Citation needed.
josda1000 wrote:
But once you give any authority to anyone, they will try to get away with more.
Citation needed.
josda1000 wrote:
The CIA does actually spy internally
Citation needed.
josda1000 wrote:
The CIA unmasked themselves (poor choice of words, but apropos nonetheless) when the libertarian ex-wrestler Jesse Ventura took office after being elected governor of Minnesota.
Citation needed.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
That's precisely where it all goes wrong, and why they should not have been created in the first place.
This is an opinion. Citation unnecessary.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
But once you give any authority to anyone, they will try to get away with more.
This is an opinion. Citation unnecessary.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The CIA does actually spy internally
USA Patriot Act. Look up Jesse Ventura. I'd assume you'd know better, but how do I really know that, you're just being defensive.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The CIA unmasked themselves (poor choice of words, but apropos nonetheless) when the libertarian ex-wrestler Jesse Ventura took office after being elected governor of Minnesota.
See previous blockquote.
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ragnaroknrol wrote:
You want a country that is not seen as isolationist.
The purpose of boarders are to isolate. You want isolationism. Isolationism is good.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The purpose of boarders are to isolate.
I thought the purpose of boarders was to look cool while surfing or skating. For someone who's always claiming to know what's best for the US, you could at least learn the language. Of course, if you meant BORDERS, which are those funny little lines on the map that separate us from Canada and Mexico, their purpose is not to isolate, but to define the boundaries of ownership or sovereignty. You can claim to be an isolationist (Which is pretty silly in this day and age), but don't redefine words to suit your belief.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
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Noooo... both of you have it wrong. You should be friendly with all, but entagle yourselves with none. Isolationism is usually only implemented in a totally authoritarian state (AKA Cuba, China...) We should defend our borders, but it doesn't mean that we seal the borders. Since the CIA deals in covert action, of course we have alliances that us normal folk don't understand at all. Why is there so much confusion? How about this: bring the troops home, destroy the NSA and CIA, and everyone would be happy again. The CIA and MI6 are the ones creating problems, not "extremist muslims" or "right-wing extremists" or "terrorists" in general. BTW: This is an opinion post. Citation not necessary.
We need to have somewhat of an isolationism policy. We should only trade with economies that do not underpay their workers, and we should never ever allow trade imbalances. We should only send troops if we legally declare war on a country, and not some phony abstract war like terror or drugs.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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Noooo... both of you have it wrong. You should be friendly with all, but entagle yourselves with none. Isolationism is usually only implemented in a totally authoritarian state (AKA Cuba, China...) We should defend our borders, but it doesn't mean that we seal the borders. Since the CIA deals in covert action, of course we have alliances that us normal folk don't understand at all. Why is there so much confusion? How about this: bring the troops home, destroy the NSA and CIA, and everyone would be happy again. The CIA and MI6 are the ones creating problems, not "extremist muslims" or "right-wing extremists" or "terrorists" in general. BTW: This is an opinion post. Citation not necessary.
If, by bringing the troops home, you're talking about Iraq and Afghanistan, then I agree with you. Do realize, though, that part of the reason the world is in a state of relative stability (Wars are pretty much confined to small regions or individual countries nowadays) is because of our worldwide presence. Just stumbled on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Empire[^], an interesting read with several sides to the issue. As for the CIA/NSA... The way I see it, being one of the larger countries, and one of the richest, makes us a target no matter what we do or don't do beyond our borders. I don't think I have to point out our position as one of the major hubs of commerce, finance, etc... That's enough to ensure that we WILL be a target. Getting rid of the CIA and NSA wouldn't change that. Now, having the CIA/NSA focus more on intelligence gathering than covert ops might be a good thing... But ditching them entirely would practically be an invitation. Obviously I have no proof, but I'm of the opinion that there's a LOT of nasty stuff being prevented by those agencies without us even knowing about it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
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ragnaroknrol wrote:
You want a country that is not seen as isolationist.
The purpose of boarders are to isolate. You want isolationism. Isolationism is good.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Isolationism is good.
Yep, obviously. Because it works so well. Like in the early 1900s Or after the Great Depression. Oh wait, World Wars all started while we were too busy minding our own business not to step in and stop things before they got out of hand. It doesn't work. You seriously think we shouldn't get involved in world politics when they directly impact us?
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You are becoming an annoyance. You should check the inforwars site and you will see there are citations scattered about in the article itself. Instead of crying and browning your pants, why don't you just look into it. Use the Freedom of Information Act to get original scans direct from the government for your TV show or something.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Instead of crying and browning your pants, why don't you just look into it. Use the Freedom of Information Act to get original scans direct from the government
Like you do? Oh, wait, sorry, you don't do that either. You post in a PROGRAMMING site a bunch of youtube and infowars links and don't actually DO anything.
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Christian Graus wrote:
He just reads them and thinks 'yeah, THAT'S why I have failed at life. The CIA'
I thought it was Climategate... Or was that last week's excuse? :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
Yeah, it's a moving target, obviously.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.