Guardian.UK: Climate Priests withdraw journal claims of rising sea levels
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
They are criminals
Please can you inform us all what laws have been broken.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
They committed outright fraud and perpetuated a fear-mongering lie using taxpayer dollars, and broke various other laws in the process. They destroyed science.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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No, they were forced to admit a lie.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
they were forced to admit a lie
Having just read the piece[^] I am forced to disagree - it is not a lie to say "Oops, we made a mistake". It is not a lie to make a mistake in the first place. I see nothing in the piece that says they were "forced" to do anything. All it says is "A study has been retracted because of a mistake". Wow! It happens. Car companies find mistakes - they do recalls. Electrical companies find mistakes - they do recalls. Food companies, ditto. None of them are "lying", they are just taking appropriate action to remedy a mistake.
You should never use standby on an elephant. It always crashes when you lift the ears. - Mark Wallace C/C++ (I dont see a huge difference between them, and the 'benefits' of C++ are questionable, who needs inheritance when you have copy and paste) - fat_boy
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Reality check: People are not perfect. People make mistakes. When someone makes a mistake, particularly in such a hugely complicated model as the one predicting future climates, they don't get "whipped with a leather belt." They fix the error and move on. Would you like to be whipped with a leather belt, stomped on, cursed at, spit on, and whipped some more, every time someone finds a bug in your code? Well, maybe you would, but this isn't the place for such fantasies.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
They committed outright fraud and perpetuated a fear-mongering lie using taxpayer dollars, and broke various other laws in the process. They destroyed science.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
committed outright fraud
Check the legal definition of Fraud.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
perpetuated a fear-mongering lie using taxpayer dollars
Wow, from what I can find, the study was at UK, Finish and German Universities - are they being funded by YOUR 'tax dollars' too?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
broke various other laws
Cheap shot. List them!
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
They destroyed science
In what way? Be very EXACT if you are going to criticise others mistakes.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
People are not perfect. People make mistakes
They also commit fraud and get sent to prison for it.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
The question is intent. If they INTENTIONALLY altered the data to support a certain outcome, then it is dishonest, and could be considered fraud, given the financial support and political significance. If they simply made a mistake, then the study should be withdrawn, corrected, and re-released.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
Scientists have been forced to withdraw a study on projected sea level rise due to global warming after finding mistakes that undermined the findings. The STUPID PIECE OF SHIT Climate Cultists need whipped with a leather belt. Stomped on, cursed at, spit on, and whipped some more. Filthy slimy pieces of trash. Whip their faces.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
The study, published in 2009 in Nature Geoscience,[^] So much for peer review. Of course what is MORE interesting is that it is the Guardian that is running the story. They have been AGW proponents for a long time, Monbiot, the looniest of them all, was their regular contributor of vitriol and diatribe, but he hasnt been heard of since.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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The question is intent. If they INTENTIONALLY altered the data to support a certain outcome, then it is dishonest, and could be considered fraud, given the financial support and political significance. If they simply made a mistake, then the study should be withdrawn, corrected, and re-released.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
They are criminals. When you commit a crime, you've made a mistake.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
Does that mean Microsoft has committed a crime every time someone finds a security hole in Windows? Does it mean the weatherman has committed a crime when he says it will be partly cloudy, when it's actually overcast?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
Does that mean Microsoft has committed a crime every time someone finds a security hole in Windows? Does it mean the weatherman has committed a crime when he says it will be partly cloudy, when it's actually overcast?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)Listen, they knew they were fucking lying. They destroyed the data, they made up a load up bullshit, and they attacked any scientist who disagreed with their findings. Capeesh? They need to be fucking whipped with jellyfish laced steel cables.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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And we will never know. And we might never know about the CRU data manipulation either. It seems the panel has been exposed as biased. Pity the hearings arent in public.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
If you're going to start on the "hide the decline" stuff, I'm not even going to dignify it with a response, as it's already been shown to be a false accusation. Anyway, it sounds to me like they found a bug in their model, and are letting everyone know that the data is invalid and needs to be corrected. That earns them respect in my book, as if they were politicians, they would probably do anything they could to hide the problem until they were no longer responsible for it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
If you're going to start on the "hide the decline" stuff, I'm not even going to dignify it with a response, as it's already been shown to be a false accusation. Anyway, it sounds to me like they found a bug in their model, and are letting everyone know that the data is invalid and needs to be corrected. That earns them respect in my book, as if they were politicians, they would probably do anything they could to hide the problem until they were no longer responsible for it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)Ian Shlasko wrote:
I'm not even going to dignify it with a response, as it's already been shown to be a false accusation.
Bull-fucking-shit!
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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The study, published in 2009 in Nature Geoscience,[^] So much for peer review. Of course what is MORE interesting is that it is the Guardian that is running the story. They have been AGW proponents for a long time, Monbiot, the looniest of them all, was their regular contributor of vitriol and diatribe, but he hasnt been heard of since.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
This IS peer review. "He said there were two separate technical mistakes in the paper, which were pointed out by other scientists after it was published. A formal retraction was required, rather than a correction, because the errors undermined the study's conclusion." That's peer review. Other scientists pointing out mistakes so they can be corrected. "One mistake was a miscalculation; the other was not to allow fully for temperature change over the past 2,000 years. Because of these issues we have retracted the paper and will now invest in the further work needed to correct these mistakes." Oh look, they made a mistake. They were corrected by their PEERS. This is science at work. The only difference between this and a million other studies is that this error was caught after publication instead of before. This does not prove GW/AGW, and this does not disprove them. As before, it just confirms that we don't yet know the answer.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
Listen, they knew they were fucking lying. They destroyed the data, they made up a load up bullshit, and they attacked any scientist who disagreed with their findings. Capeesh? They need to be fucking whipped with jellyfish laced steel cables.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Listen, they knew they were f***ing lying
Oh of course... Because they're all-knowing and infallible, so they couldn't possibly have made a mistake. [/sarcasm]
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
Ian Shlasko wrote:
I'm not even going to dignify it with a response, as it's already been shown to be a false accusation.
Bull-fucking-shit!
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
Ah, the words of a true believer.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
This IS peer review. "He said there were two separate technical mistakes in the paper, which were pointed out by other scientists after it was published. A formal retraction was required, rather than a correction, because the errors undermined the study's conclusion." That's peer review. Other scientists pointing out mistakes so they can be corrected. "One mistake was a miscalculation; the other was not to allow fully for temperature change over the past 2,000 years. Because of these issues we have retracted the paper and will now invest in the further work needed to correct these mistakes." Oh look, they made a mistake. They were corrected by their PEERS. This is science at work. The only difference between this and a million other studies is that this error was caught after publication instead of before. This does not prove GW/AGW, and this does not disprove them. As before, it just confirms that we don't yet know the answer.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
Noooooo, peer review is before it gets published, not after.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
So after it gets published, it should be assumed to be infallible? Peer review means getting other people to look at the findings, run their own experiments, and confirm or refute them. It doesn't guarantee that every error is caught. Of course, once it's published, particularly in something as well known as Nature, it'll attract more attention both from the public and from other scientists, giving more opportunities for said scientists to investigate and review the findings. This is science at work. We should be commending Vermeer and Rahmstorf for finding the errors, not lambasting the original team for being human and therefore fallible.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
Scientists have been forced to withdraw a study on projected sea level rise due to global warming after finding mistakes that undermined the findings. The STUPID PIECE OF SHIT Climate Cultists need whipped with a leather belt. Stomped on, cursed at, spit on, and whipped some more. Filthy slimy pieces of trash. Whip their faces.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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So after it gets published, it should be assumed to be infallible? Peer review means getting other people to look at the findings, run their own experiments, and confirm or refute them. It doesn't guarantee that every error is caught. Of course, once it's published, particularly in something as well known as Nature, it'll attract more attention both from the public and from other scientists, giving more opportunities for said scientists to investigate and review the findings. This is science at work. We should be commending Vermeer and Rahmstorf for finding the errors, not lambasting the original team for being human and therefore fallible.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)Ian Shlasko wrote:
So after it gets published, it should be assumed to be infallible?
Of course, didnt you know that? (Sarcasm intended).
Ian Shlasko wrote:
This is science at work. We should be commending Vermeer and Rahmstorf for finding the errors, not lambasting the original team for being human and therefore fallible.
But we should lambast the general lack of effective peer review of papers relating to AGW. Such as the IPCC AR4, which as you nkw know, is riddled with errors.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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If you're going to start on the "hide the decline" stuff, I'm not even going to dignify it with a response, as it's already been shown to be a false accusation. Anyway, it sounds to me like they found a bug in their model, and are letting everyone know that the data is invalid and needs to be corrected. That earns them respect in my book, as if they were politicians, they would probably do anything they could to hide the problem until they were no longer responsible for it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)Ian Shlasko wrote:
it's already been shown to be a false accusation.
Where?
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Anyway, it sounds to me like they found a bug in their model, and are letting everyone know that the data is invalid and needs to be corrected
And Phil Jones's statement after the CRU email exposure is not a similar retraction? After all, he now states the debate is not over and that the recent warming is not significant.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
They are criminals
Please can you inform us all what laws have been broken.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
