What do you think?
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I was having a conversation with Domenic about abortion. I was taking the "pro-life" viewpoint and saying that it's a small human being. Domenic was taking the opposing view and saying that until the first forty or so days, the "fetus" is incapable of human thought processes. So my question is: Which side do you take? Why? And how do you defend it? I'm not trying to offend anyone who has had an abortion. I just want to know what all of you think... Norm Almond: I seen some GUI's in my life but WTF is this mess ;-) Leppie: I made an app for my sister and she wouldnt use it till it was colorful enough:) Norm:good point leppie, from that statement I can only deduce that this GUI must be aimed at children:laugh: Leppie:My sister is 25:eek: -Norm on the MailMagic GUI
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I was having a conversation with Domenic about abortion. I was taking the "pro-life" viewpoint and saying that it's a small human being. Domenic was taking the opposing view and saying that until the first forty or so days, the "fetus" is incapable of human thought processes. So my question is: Which side do you take? Why? And how do you defend it? I'm not trying to offend anyone who has had an abortion. I just want to know what all of you think... Norm Almond: I seen some GUI's in my life but WTF is this mess ;-) Leppie: I made an app for my sister and she wouldnt use it till it was colorful enough:) Norm:good point leppie, from that statement I can only deduce that this GUI must be aimed at children:laugh: Leppie:My sister is 25:eek: -Norm on the MailMagic GUI
I think there are 6 billion people on the planet and roughly that many different opinions about abortion, religion and politics. Hence, I pick my arguments very carefully in these areas and almost never comment on abortion. At least with religion and politics there is someone to make fun of, but with abortion there is absolutely nothing to joke about. :rose:
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
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I was having a conversation with Domenic about abortion. I was taking the "pro-life" viewpoint and saying that it's a small human being. Domenic was taking the opposing view and saying that until the first forty or so days, the "fetus" is incapable of human thought processes. So my question is: Which side do you take? Why? And how do you defend it? I'm not trying to offend anyone who has had an abortion. I just want to know what all of you think... Norm Almond: I seen some GUI's in my life but WTF is this mess ;-) Leppie: I made an app for my sister and she wouldnt use it till it was colorful enough:) Norm:good point leppie, from that statement I can only deduce that this GUI must be aimed at children:laugh: Leppie:My sister is 25:eek: -Norm on the MailMagic GUI
There was a thread on this not too long ago, that started some heavy discussions. It's at msg=171545&forumid=2605[^] if you're interested...
Shog9 ------
So they took me down to the gallows And this boy, he said to me: "Why do you smile, when the rope's around your neck?" I said, "I tell you boy, when i get back..."
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There was a thread on this not too long ago, that started some heavy discussions. It's at msg=171545&forumid=2605[^] if you're interested...
Shog9 ------
So they took me down to the gallows And this boy, he said to me: "Why do you smile, when the rope's around your neck?" I said, "I tell you boy, when i get back..."
Leaving my religion and politics out of it, I'm a pro-lifer. HOWEVER, I learned a long time ago that I have no business deciding that others should follow my beliefs. The long and short of that is that while I believe is abortion is [wrong/immoral/not an option] I also believe each of us has to make our own decision. With the addition of children into my life, I have learned that value ten fold. The very best I can ever hope to do is pass my beliefs on to those around (for better or worse... as the case maybe). -mel --------------------------------------------- Be good! But if you can't be good, at least be good at it and try not to get any on ya! -mjf
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I was having a conversation with Domenic about abortion. I was taking the "pro-life" viewpoint and saying that it's a small human being. Domenic was taking the opposing view and saying that until the first forty or so days, the "fetus" is incapable of human thought processes. So my question is: Which side do you take? Why? And how do you defend it? I'm not trying to offend anyone who has had an abortion. I just want to know what all of you think... Norm Almond: I seen some GUI's in my life but WTF is this mess ;-) Leppie: I made an app for my sister and she wouldnt use it till it was colorful enough:) Norm:good point leppie, from that statement I can only deduce that this GUI must be aimed at children:laugh: Leppie:My sister is 25:eek: -Norm on the MailMagic GUI
Abortion is tragic, not only for the baby, but for the mother as well. I always take the pro-life argument, but have had a couple of friends who, before I met them, found themselves in desparate circumstances and had abortions. It seems that people who have been like this never actually get over it, and once it is over, would do anything to go back, give up those 9 months of their lives, and then follow the adoption course of action. I also have a friend who had an unwanted pregnancy, but eventually decided not to have an abortion. She is now happily married to the baby's father, with a beautiful son. I'm not saying it's easy, but it seems that in the long run it is not only better for the baby in question to allow the pregnancy to see its course, but for the mother as well. However, the desparation a person must feel to give up a baby like that must be something the rest of us can't begin to comprehend, and people who have been through this should be treated with compassion and love, not given more hell. On a ps - the harsh side of me says that people should take responsibility for their actions. Something along the lines of "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime". ie. Be careful, and don't take sex lightly. :rose:
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
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Abortion is tragic, not only for the baby, but for the mother as well. I always take the pro-life argument, but have had a couple of friends who, before I met them, found themselves in desparate circumstances and had abortions. It seems that people who have been like this never actually get over it, and once it is over, would do anything to go back, give up those 9 months of their lives, and then follow the adoption course of action. I also have a friend who had an unwanted pregnancy, but eventually decided not to have an abortion. She is now happily married to the baby's father, with a beautiful son. I'm not saying it's easy, but it seems that in the long run it is not only better for the baby in question to allow the pregnancy to see its course, but for the mother as well. However, the desparation a person must feel to give up a baby like that must be something the rest of us can't begin to comprehend, and people who have been through this should be treated with compassion and love, not given more hell. On a ps - the harsh side of me says that people should take responsibility for their actions. Something along the lines of "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime". ie. Be careful, and don't take sex lightly. :rose:
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
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I was having a conversation with Domenic about abortion. I was taking the "pro-life" viewpoint and saying that it's a small human being. Domenic was taking the opposing view and saying that until the first forty or so days, the "fetus" is incapable of human thought processes. So my question is: Which side do you take? Why? And how do you defend it? I'm not trying to offend anyone who has had an abortion. I just want to know what all of you think... Norm Almond: I seen some GUI's in my life but WTF is this mess ;-) Leppie: I made an app for my sister and she wouldnt use it till it was colorful enough:) Norm:good point leppie, from that statement I can only deduce that this GUI must be aimed at children:laugh: Leppie:My sister is 25:eek: -Norm on the MailMagic GUI
I am pro-choice. The question as to whether the foetus can "think" or not is a moot point - the decision should be up to the mother - simple as that. No-one has the right to stop her from going ahead with an abortion if that is her choice.
Faith. Believing in something you *know* isn't true.
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you didn't really mean that they wanted those 9 months back as they did the "deed" that late? Did you? --------------------------------------------- Be good! But if you can't be good, at least be good at it and try not to get any on ya! -mjf
Sorry, what? Maybe my brain still needs to wake up, not too sure what you are asking? :~
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
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Abortion is tragic, not only for the baby, but for the mother as well. I always take the pro-life argument, but have had a couple of friends who, before I met them, found themselves in desparate circumstances and had abortions. It seems that people who have been like this never actually get over it, and once it is over, would do anything to go back, give up those 9 months of their lives, and then follow the adoption course of action. I also have a friend who had an unwanted pregnancy, but eventually decided not to have an abortion. She is now happily married to the baby's father, with a beautiful son. I'm not saying it's easy, but it seems that in the long run it is not only better for the baby in question to allow the pregnancy to see its course, but for the mother as well. However, the desparation a person must feel to give up a baby like that must be something the rest of us can't begin to comprehend, and people who have been through this should be treated with compassion and love, not given more hell. On a ps - the harsh side of me says that people should take responsibility for their actions. Something along the lines of "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime". ie. Be careful, and don't take sex lightly. :rose:
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
Megan Forbes wrote: It seems that people who have been like this never actually get over it, and once it is over, would do anything to go back, give up those 9 months of their lives, and then follow the adoption course of action. I have noticed this also, however it is amazing how little attention this gets in the popular media. I know plenty of women who have never recovered from this and seem to never leave their state of shock. Whether abortion is right or wrong, on a personal basis it is still regarded as a taboo topic by many of those women that have had it. The other statistic that I'm curious as to it's accuracy is the number of women who are unable to concieve after having an abortion. Depending on who you talk to the percentage differs wildly. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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I think there are 6 billion people on the planet and roughly that many different opinions about abortion, religion and politics. Hence, I pick my arguments very carefully in these areas and almost never comment on abortion. At least with religion and politics there is someone to make fun of, but with abortion there is absolutely nothing to joke about. :rose:
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
Good reply Mike. Too many flames wars already :suss: Elaine Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
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I was having a conversation with Domenic about abortion. I was taking the "pro-life" viewpoint and saying that it's a small human being. Domenic was taking the opposing view and saying that until the first forty or so days, the "fetus" is incapable of human thought processes. So my question is: Which side do you take? Why? And how do you defend it? I'm not trying to offend anyone who has had an abortion. I just want to know what all of you think... Norm Almond: I seen some GUI's in my life but WTF is this mess ;-) Leppie: I made an app for my sister and she wouldnt use it till it was colorful enough:) Norm:good point leppie, from that statement I can only deduce that this GUI must be aimed at children:laugh: Leppie:My sister is 25:eek: -Norm on the MailMagic GUI
Well, as my parents admitted to me that my conception was accidental, I'm certainly glad an abortion didn't happen! However, I don't think I have any right to enforce any personal views onto anyone else. In the end of the day I believe that people should have the right to make their own choices -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit!
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I was having a conversation with Domenic about abortion. I was taking the "pro-life" viewpoint and saying that it's a small human being. Domenic was taking the opposing view and saying that until the first forty or so days, the "fetus" is incapable of human thought processes. So my question is: Which side do you take? Why? And how do you defend it? I'm not trying to offend anyone who has had an abortion. I just want to know what all of you think... Norm Almond: I seen some GUI's in my life but WTF is this mess ;-) Leppie: I made an app for my sister and she wouldnt use it till it was colorful enough:) Norm:good point leppie, from that statement I can only deduce that this GUI must be aimed at children:laugh: Leppie:My sister is 25:eek: -Norm on the MailMagic GUI
I think that its very difficult to speak about abortion in a general sense. Is it right or wrong to kill a man? Is it right or wrong to kill an animal? Is it right or wrong to lie? Is it right or wrong to use Hungarian notation? All these questions attempt to get an answer to a subject without specifying the context of the sitation. If a man was trying to kill your children, then it might be acceptable to kill that man. If an animal is suffering after a car hit it, it might be acceptable to kill the animal. If a robber asks you for your bank card number, it is acceptable to lie and give him the wrong number. If all developers in your team do not use Hunagrian notation it might be wrong to use it yourself. It can be very interesting to ask "Is abortion wrong or right?". Undoubtedly you will get many interesting replies with varying opinions. Some of these replies will give you new perspectives on how you will look at the subject in the future. Many replies will be nothing more than philosophy and ethics. This is all very interesting, but not very useful as such. There is no advantage in knowing whether abortion is good or bad unless you need to know. When you do need to know (e.g. you are considering it yourself, you have a friend who needs advice etc..) then you need to think about abortion in the context of the situation. Will the birth of this new baby kill the mother? Is this baby going to be mentally retarded? I am getting rid of the baby because of greed or selfishness? Do I have any social responsibilites which disallow me to have an abortion? I do have an opinion, like everybody else, on abortion in a general sense. This opinion is interesting, but not very useful in itself. It might help someone broaden their perspective on the subject, but it should not be the basis of their decsision. My opinion is that abortion in general can damage a society since it may lower the value of life. Ask an infertile female if abortion is right or wrong. I'm sure that she values new life more than us, so I'm sure she'll be against it. James Drinking In The Sun Forgot Password?
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Abortion is tragic, not only for the baby, but for the mother as well. I always take the pro-life argument, but have had a couple of friends who, before I met them, found themselves in desparate circumstances and had abortions. It seems that people who have been like this never actually get over it, and once it is over, would do anything to go back, give up those 9 months of their lives, and then follow the adoption course of action. I also have a friend who had an unwanted pregnancy, but eventually decided not to have an abortion. She is now happily married to the baby's father, with a beautiful son. I'm not saying it's easy, but it seems that in the long run it is not only better for the baby in question to allow the pregnancy to see its course, but for the mother as well. However, the desparation a person must feel to give up a baby like that must be something the rest of us can't begin to comprehend, and people who have been through this should be treated with compassion and love, not given more hell. On a ps - the harsh side of me says that people should take responsibility for their actions. Something along the lines of "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime". ie. Be careful, and don't take sex lightly. :rose:
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
Megan Forbes wrote: the harsh side of me says that people should take responsibility for their actions Yes, in most cases, I agree. But what if the woman has been raped and got pregnant ? In this situation, she didn't ask for anything, her life is devastated and I guess in this situation, having to take care of a baby she didn't want is even worse. Jerome
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I think that its very difficult to speak about abortion in a general sense. Is it right or wrong to kill a man? Is it right or wrong to kill an animal? Is it right or wrong to lie? Is it right or wrong to use Hungarian notation? All these questions attempt to get an answer to a subject without specifying the context of the sitation. If a man was trying to kill your children, then it might be acceptable to kill that man. If an animal is suffering after a car hit it, it might be acceptable to kill the animal. If a robber asks you for your bank card number, it is acceptable to lie and give him the wrong number. If all developers in your team do not use Hunagrian notation it might be wrong to use it yourself. It can be very interesting to ask "Is abortion wrong or right?". Undoubtedly you will get many interesting replies with varying opinions. Some of these replies will give you new perspectives on how you will look at the subject in the future. Many replies will be nothing more than philosophy and ethics. This is all very interesting, but not very useful as such. There is no advantage in knowing whether abortion is good or bad unless you need to know. When you do need to know (e.g. you are considering it yourself, you have a friend who needs advice etc..) then you need to think about abortion in the context of the situation. Will the birth of this new baby kill the mother? Is this baby going to be mentally retarded? I am getting rid of the baby because of greed or selfishness? Do I have any social responsibilites which disallow me to have an abortion? I do have an opinion, like everybody else, on abortion in a general sense. This opinion is interesting, but not very useful in itself. It might help someone broaden their perspective on the subject, but it should not be the basis of their decsision. My opinion is that abortion in general can damage a society since it may lower the value of life. Ask an infertile female if abortion is right or wrong. I'm sure that she values new life more than us, so I'm sure she'll be against it. James Drinking In The Sun Forgot Password?
[James Pullicino] wrote: Is it right or wrong to use Hungarian notation :laugh: Good points on the rest. The question is - does a mother own a baby's life until it's born (is it considered an extension of herself) or does the baby own it's life?
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
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I was having a conversation with Domenic about abortion. I was taking the "pro-life" viewpoint and saying that it's a small human being. Domenic was taking the opposing view and saying that until the first forty or so days, the "fetus" is incapable of human thought processes. So my question is: Which side do you take? Why? And how do you defend it? I'm not trying to offend anyone who has had an abortion. I just want to know what all of you think... Norm Almond: I seen some GUI's in my life but WTF is this mess ;-) Leppie: I made an app for my sister and she wouldnt use it till it was colorful enough:) Norm:good point leppie, from that statement I can only deduce that this GUI must be aimed at children:laugh: Leppie:My sister is 25:eek: -Norm on the MailMagic GUI
There is a big difference between being anti-abortion and being anti-"Roe-V-Wade". I can fully appreciate that pregnancy constitutes a medical condition which is best left to the woman and her doctor. However, Roe-V-Wade was an arbitrary political decision made by an out of control federal judiciary trying to impose its will upon the entire country by a non-democratic process. I can never support that. I also think arbitrary definitions of what constitutes human life are dangerous. Can a fetus think like a full grown adult? No. Can a five year old? Again, no. But we don't go around killing five year olds. A civilization should be very cautious in the application of such arbitrary power. :rose: "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
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There is a big difference between being anti-abortion and being anti-"Roe-V-Wade". I can fully appreciate that pregnancy constitutes a medical condition which is best left to the woman and her doctor. However, Roe-V-Wade was an arbitrary political decision made by an out of control federal judiciary trying to impose its will upon the entire country by a non-democratic process. I can never support that. I also think arbitrary definitions of what constitutes human life are dangerous. Can a fetus think like a full grown adult? No. Can a five year old? Again, no. But we don't go around killing five year olds. A civilization should be very cautious in the application of such arbitrary power. :rose: "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
Stan Shannon wrote: Roe-V-Wade Sorry to be ignorant - please tell me what it is? I've heard of it, but never had an explanation :-O
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
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I was having a conversation with Domenic about abortion. I was taking the "pro-life" viewpoint and saying that it's a small human being. Domenic was taking the opposing view and saying that until the first forty or so days, the "fetus" is incapable of human thought processes. So my question is: Which side do you take? Why? And how do you defend it? I'm not trying to offend anyone who has had an abortion. I just want to know what all of you think... Norm Almond: I seen some GUI's in my life but WTF is this mess ;-) Leppie: I made an app for my sister and she wouldnt use it till it was colorful enough:) Norm:good point leppie, from that statement I can only deduce that this GUI must be aimed at children:laugh: Leppie:My sister is 25:eek: -Norm on the MailMagic GUI
David Stone wrote: Which side do you take? Pro-choice. David Stone wrote: Why? And how do you defend it? Because a person who wants an abortion but is forced to have the baby is not going to make a good mother. For every "I am so glad I didn't have an abortion, I love my new baby and I am amazed but I am a great mother" case there are 5 "Shut up you brat, I never wnted you anyway! And get off that table, you are sitting on my coke stash" cases. The way I think about is that a baby can ruin a persons future. I knew a girl in school who was pretty smart and had a good chance of making something of her life. But she fell in love with a real jock. He had sex with her and she fell pregnant, he dumped her and now she is barely managing to survive as she could not finish school properly, could not go onto varsity and has to take any job she can while looking after a young kid. Now not only is her life badly affected but so is the childs. The child has no father, will grow up in poverty and generally is going to have a tough time of things. People make mistakes and while responsibility must be taken, ruining their life for falling in love and getting knocked up is just plain wrong. And don't come with the adoption line. There is something like a million AIDs orphans and hundres of thousands more unwanted kids languishing in sub-standard living conditions in government orphanages. Abortion is not something to be taken lightly and I do agree that repeat "offenders" should have the law come down on them. Abortion is not an enjoy-the-free-ride ticket, it is deadly serious. I guess bottom line for me is: If she has the abortion she has a chance of rectifying her mistake and contributing to society. If she does not have the abortion then she could very well just become a bigger burden to society an raise an unbalanced child. Neither is a win-win situation, but at least the former is a win-lose situation and not a lose-lose situation.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote: Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul Watson
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David Stone wrote: Which side do you take? Pro-choice. David Stone wrote: Why? And how do you defend it? Because a person who wants an abortion but is forced to have the baby is not going to make a good mother. For every "I am so glad I didn't have an abortion, I love my new baby and I am amazed but I am a great mother" case there are 5 "Shut up you brat, I never wnted you anyway! And get off that table, you are sitting on my coke stash" cases. The way I think about is that a baby can ruin a persons future. I knew a girl in school who was pretty smart and had a good chance of making something of her life. But she fell in love with a real jock. He had sex with her and she fell pregnant, he dumped her and now she is barely managing to survive as she could not finish school properly, could not go onto varsity and has to take any job she can while looking after a young kid. Now not only is her life badly affected but so is the childs. The child has no father, will grow up in poverty and generally is going to have a tough time of things. People make mistakes and while responsibility must be taken, ruining their life for falling in love and getting knocked up is just plain wrong. And don't come with the adoption line. There is something like a million AIDs orphans and hundres of thousands more unwanted kids languishing in sub-standard living conditions in government orphanages. Abortion is not something to be taken lightly and I do agree that repeat "offenders" should have the law come down on them. Abortion is not an enjoy-the-free-ride ticket, it is deadly serious. I guess bottom line for me is: If she has the abortion she has a chance of rectifying her mistake and contributing to society. If she does not have the abortion then she could very well just become a bigger burden to society an raise an unbalanced child. Neither is a win-win situation, but at least the former is a win-lose situation and not a lose-lose situation.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote: Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul Watson
Paul Watson wrote: Now not only is her life badly affected but so is the childs. The child has no father, will grow up in poverty and generally is going to have a tough time of things. It would be interesting to wait till he's about 14 years old, and then ask him if he would have preferred not to have lived. Sometimes it seems that we have evolved faster academically faster than we have socially. We are capable of ending lives, yet we are not capable of setting up decent support structures for people who make mistakes and find themselves in these desparate circumstances.
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
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Stan Shannon wrote: Roe-V-Wade Sorry to be ignorant - please tell me what it is? I've heard of it, but never had an explanation :-O
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
Roe Versus Wade The basic criticism of it is that the Court "made law". That is, they invented a law where none previously existed regarding abortion. As making law is supposed to be the power of the Legislative (democratically elected) branch of our government, many people, including myself, think it was a very bad direction to take the federal court system. The court's decision was made on purely political and personal, not constitutional or legal, grounds. The Left continues to make criticism of Roe-V-Wade sound like criticism of abortion itself. It's not. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
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Paul Watson wrote: Now not only is her life badly affected but so is the childs. The child has no father, will grow up in poverty and generally is going to have a tough time of things. It would be interesting to wait till he's about 14 years old, and then ask him if he would have preferred not to have lived. Sometimes it seems that we have evolved faster academically faster than we have socially. We are capable of ending lives, yet we are not capable of setting up decent support structures for people who make mistakes and find themselves in these desparate circumstances.
I've always heard that there was an idea behind Win ME... I still can't figure out what that was... anyboy know??? I;ve herad the idea was that it was supposed to be n operating system but I doubt this. - Brian Delahunty
Megan Forbes wrote: yet we are not capable of setting up decent support structures for people who make mistakes and find themselves in these desparate circumstances And until we can setup a decent support structure we should not be bringing children into this world that will have to survive on the, well, indecent support structure. Also bringing in these children will mean people who normally would have been fine on their own will now also have to rely on the poor support structure.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote: Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul Watson