Dutch doctors organization wants to ban circumsicion
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Why would a woman need one of those ? If it's so important, why is it so hard to find ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
It is not hard to find, simply add alcohol and wait! :)
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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Christian Graus wrote:
Well, it's true that people who remain intact require a degree of personal hygiene that appears to escape those who have been mutilated.
Touche! But not, of course, the case. Anyone can be dirty regardless of a foreskin or not - it is just a lot easier to keep a smooth, unfettered penis clean. :-)
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
Yes, my point would be that we intact males are perhaps forced to learn levels of hygiene that guys who are not complete do not. But, it's not really a big deal. Washing it in the shower was how I learned my number one teenage past time, as I recall.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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It is not hard to find, simply add alcohol and wait! :)
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
ROTFL !!! I'll try that tonight. And have a black eye tomorrow. Seriously though, I've heard guys tell jokes about how hard a clitoris is to find, and my thought has been 'your poor wife'....
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I know DD has posted along similar lines, but:
digital man wrote:
useless, cheese infested piss holder
I don't recognise this description. I was taught the importance of personal hygiene, and passed it on to my lads.
Bob Emmett
Sadly, my lad had to be cut for medical reasons. But otherwise, I'd have done the same.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Yes, my point would be that we intact males are perhaps forced to learn levels of hygiene that guys who are not complete do not. But, it's not really a big deal. Washing it in the shower was how I learned my number one teenage past time, as I recall.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
as how I learned my number one teenage past time, as I recall.
Far too much information!!!
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
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Sense at last! Original source here: http://www.nu.nl/binnenland/2256789/artsen-willen-af-van-besnijdenis-jongens.html[^] You can use a fancy translator or trust my quick translation (or you can speak Dutch, but really, who does that..) Pardon me for my rather literal translation, I suck at translating. Between brackets is clarification/notes about the translation. Circumcision without medical reason goes against the right for bodily integrity, according to KNMG. The doctors organization [KNMG] calls on doctors to tell ["actively" and "strongly" don't really apply to the verb "to tell"] parents who want to have the operation done on their son about the lack of medical advantages and the risk of complication. According to KNMG chairman Arie Nieuwenhuijzen Kruseman, the rule is: don't cut in healthy children. The cause for this [point of view - but points of view don't have a cause, do they?] is the increasing attention for the protection of child rights, according to KNMG. English article about this here[^] Damn right. If my parents had decided that I should be circumcised, I would totally sue them now. And don't give me shit about "a parent's consent is consent" because it clearly isn't. My body. I get to decide. Luckily for them (my parents) they didn't make such silly mistakes. Discuss.
harold aptroot wrote:
or you can speak Dutch, but really, who does that..
Dat klopt.
harold aptroot wrote:
[point of view - but points of view don't have a cause, do they?]
Standpunt would translate as 'position' or even 'statement'. Literally, 'stand point'.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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TMI, but I'm uncloaked, and it has had no negative effect on my use, enjoyment or abuse. If it is done as a child, the nervous system probably has not fully populated the connections. It is plastic enough to make good. Did your parents feed you well, did they teach you good or bad habits? Spank you? I'm sure you can come up with some other good reason to sue them.:~
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Personally I find washing it from time to time helps.
Time to time??? What, once a week not good enough for you? I have heard of that case before: very sad but by no means the norm. I see this is one of those issues that has no clear-cut resolution - I don't see it as all that bad (and I would bet that none of my family, friends or contemporaries would either) but you, and others, plainly do. When my sons have children I will not put any pressure on them to follow what I did but I suspect they will, anyway and not because of nonsensical religious beliefs but for tradition and the perception that it is healthier and cleaner.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
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"I'm qualified to cut off bits from a child, I read a book written by bronze age shepherds"
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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TMI, but I'm uncloaked, and it has had no negative effect on my use, enjoyment or abuse. If it is done as a child, the nervous system probably has not fully populated the connections. It is plastic enough to make good. Did your parents feed you well, did they teach you good or bad habits? Spank you? I'm sure you can come up with some other good reason to sue them.:~
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Yeah, rusty blade, incantations, and some incense. Just what you need.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Yeah, rusty blade, incantations, and some incense. Just what you need.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
Do they teach it at Hogwarts?
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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digital man wrote:
nonsensical religious beliefs
digital man wrote:
tradition and the perception that it is healthier and cleaner
And the difference is...?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
You don't know the difference between tradition and religion??? Okay, since you're having an old-man moment I'll lay it out for you in the most simplistic terms I can manage. Religion: irrational adherence to a set of rules that dictate how you should worship an imaginary being that is omnipotent and invisible. Tradition: honoring and maintaining cultural practices (not always a good thing). There is no necessity for a god or religion here. I will, of course, admit to a hint of hypocrisy here since I have cherry picked the traditions I want to maintain - anything religious has been tossed out like the rubbish it is. So I'm human - bite me.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
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You don't know the difference between tradition and religion??? Okay, since you're having an old-man moment I'll lay it out for you in the most simplistic terms I can manage. Religion: irrational adherence to a set of rules that dictate how you should worship an imaginary being that is omnipotent and invisible. Tradition: honoring and maintaining cultural practices (not always a good thing). There is no necessity for a god or religion here. I will, of course, admit to a hint of hypocrisy here since I have cherry picked the traditions I want to maintain - anything religious has been tossed out like the rubbish it is. So I'm human - bite me.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
digital man wrote:
You don't know the difference between tradition and religion???
I meant, what is the difference in respect of Judaeism (did I spell that right?). It seems to me that the Jewish religion is little more than a collection of traditions. There sems to be no mystical content at all. Its also true though for other religions/traditions. Getting married in a church. Its both. Having christmass on the 24th with mistletoe, trees, presents, saturnalia, etc. Its also both. Lamb and chocolate eggs at easter, also both. All of us practice these things, as traditions, without any heed (or very little) to their religions undertones. Isnt it the same for Jews with circumcision? Eating Pork? Washing in standing water? They are all traditions (or habits perhaps) that many follow without any croyance of the religious ellement.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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digital man wrote:
You don't know the difference between tradition and religion???
I meant, what is the difference in respect of Judaeism (did I spell that right?). It seems to me that the Jewish religion is little more than a collection of traditions. There sems to be no mystical content at all. Its also true though for other religions/traditions. Getting married in a church. Its both. Having christmass on the 24th with mistletoe, trees, presents, saturnalia, etc. Its also both. Lamb and chocolate eggs at easter, also both. All of us practice these things, as traditions, without any heed (or very little) to their religions undertones. Isnt it the same for Jews with circumcision? Eating Pork? Washing in standing water? They are all traditions (or habits perhaps) that many follow without any croyance of the religious ellement.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
I meant, what is the difference in respect of Judaeism (did I spell that right?).
Close enough: Judaism
fat_boy wrote:
It seems to me that the Jewish religion is little more than a collection of traditions. There sems to be no mystical content at all.
That would depend upon how orthodox someone was. I have never been religious so have always excluded those parts from any feeling I might have for the tradition and, as I said, I cherry pick the bits I want. I've never kept or eaten kosher (except in someone else's home or when someone who keeps kosher eats at my house - but I'd do the same for anyone that had particular dietary requirements whatever the reasons).
fat_boy wrote:
Isnt it the same for Jews with circumcision? Eating Pork? Washing in standing water? They are all traditions (or habits perhaps) that many follow without any croyance of the religious ellement.
Most of these traditions (afaik) stem from keeping clean though some (like not eating pork) are a bit outdated, I feel. (Bacon: drool).
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
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fat_boy wrote:
I meant, what is the difference in respect of Judaeism (did I spell that right?).
Close enough: Judaism
fat_boy wrote:
It seems to me that the Jewish religion is little more than a collection of traditions. There sems to be no mystical content at all.
That would depend upon how orthodox someone was. I have never been religious so have always excluded those parts from any feeling I might have for the tradition and, as I said, I cherry pick the bits I want. I've never kept or eaten kosher (except in someone else's home or when someone who keeps kosher eats at my house - but I'd do the same for anyone that had particular dietary requirements whatever the reasons).
fat_boy wrote:
Isnt it the same for Jews with circumcision? Eating Pork? Washing in standing water? They are all traditions (or habits perhaps) that many follow without any croyance of the religious ellement.
Most of these traditions (afaik) stem from keeping clean though some (like not eating pork) are a bit outdated, I feel. (Bacon: drool).
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
digital man wrote:
Most of these traditions (afaik) stem from keeping clean though some (like not eating pork) are a bit outdated, I feel. (Bacon: drool).
I am sure if I knew the religion better I could come up with some more interesting examples, like those I did for christmas and easter for us supposed christians (most aspects of which actually stem form pagan religions) and hence illustrate my sentiment better, but I cant, so I will have to take your word that the Jewish religion is different fomr Jewish tradition. As for bacon, who can resist it! (I was wondering if you would notice my accidental(ish) use of a French word, whcih seemed so apt I left it in. I assume you got its meaning though)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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digital man wrote:
Most of these traditions (afaik) stem from keeping clean though some (like not eating pork) are a bit outdated, I feel. (Bacon: drool).
I am sure if I knew the religion better I could come up with some more interesting examples, like those I did for christmas and easter for us supposed christians (most aspects of which actually stem form pagan religions) and hence illustrate my sentiment better, but I cant, so I will have to take your word that the Jewish religion is different fomr Jewish tradition. As for bacon, who can resist it! (I was wondering if you would notice my accidental(ish) use of a French word, whcih seemed so apt I left it in. I assume you got its meaning though)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
I did though I checked to make sure you weren't just having another 'old-man' moment! :-)
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
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Yes, my point would be that we intact males are perhaps forced to learn levels of hygiene that guys who are not complete do not. But, it's not really a big deal. Washing it in the shower was how I learned my number one teenage past time, as I recall.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Also circumcisions are performed by people without medical training and when it goes wrong families are expected to live with the damage. :mad:
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
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RichardM1 wrote:
and it has had no negative effect on my use, enjoyment or abuse.
How on earth would you know ?
RichardM1 wrote:
If it is done as a child, the nervous system probably has not fully populated the connections.
Bollocks. Again, how would you know ? Why do the babies cry then ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
How on earth would you know ?
- How on earth would you know otherwise? :laugh: 4) No reports of circumcised men being more prone to abuse opiates (mimics endorphins). 3) Reports of wounded vets who learn to orgasm from stimulation elsewhere. 2) Dumping endorphins happens in the brain, and is unaffected by the foreskin. And the number one reason I would on earth know... 1) Because I know how I feel, and I have never heard anything better reported. :-D (sorry I couldn't come up with a full 'top 10')
Christian Graus wrote:
Bollocks. Again, how would you know ?
:laugh: See reasons 1-5 above. Because children with arrested development (not retardation) show that the brain goes through phases. The child is not just learning, the nervous system is developing, changing based on hormones, not just experience. Because the prevalence of prepubescent masturbation is very low, which indicates the systems are not fully formed prior to puberty, because otherwise, kids would.
Christian Graus wrote:
Why do the babies cry then ?
:confused: what is this, a trick question? :laugh: :laugh: Because getting cut hurts, and feeling pain is a requirement at birth, getting off is not. I'm not sure the results would be as, um, 'compelling' later in life. I suspect it would be harder for someone in their teens or later. I remember a kid in 6th or 7th grade had it done. :~ He missed about a week of PE. I think that was pushing it, from a neurological perspective. I still cringe when I think about it. He and his family became Christian. I wonder what stupid told them it was required to be committed Christians? Didn't they read the Counsel of Jerusalem? I'm sure it would 'separate the wheat from the chafe' pretty darn quick.
Opacity, the new Transparency.