Murder is irrelevant. [modified]
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I've seen a lot of people "complain" about 'events' that caused people to die. So what? People died .. ok? It doesn't matter, not even a bit. There are some groups of people who mistakenly think that it does. - People that got hurt financially by those deaths. - Relatives etc. Just because it matters to them, doesn't mean it matters. Also, I don't get why people get so upset about murder especially. Murder is illegal because almost no one wants to die. Not because it is inherently a bad thing when someone is killed. Realize that about 250k people die each day. One (or anything up 250 or so) more or less doesn't make a significant difference. And then there's the overpopulation - murderers are doing us all a (very small) favour by helping a bit. The cause of death is not relevant in any way, except to the current legal system, and to silly people. Is it just because children are indoctrinated to 'care' about deaths? Does human life somehow have "value"? (why should any collection of chemical processes have "value"?) (I have asked this often, just not on CP. I never got satisfying answers.) Discuss. edit: spelling fixed.
modified on Tuesday, June 8, 2010 9:12 AM
OK - it looks like you're serious. In the first instance, the reason we object to murder is self interest. If people are allowed to kill each other, someone can kill you. A society where life is tenuous, is inherently unstable - why work for a future that will probably not happen because life is cheap ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I can predict how this one will go... CSS will chime in, calling you a eugenicist. The religious right will talk about life being sacred. The constitutionalists will chime in with the "Life, Liberty, and Property"... Gotta love this forum. But anyway... Yeah, in the greater scheme of things, a few extra people dying really doesn't matter. But if it was YOUR family/friends, I think you would care. If it was YOU, I think... Well, then you probably wouldn't care, being dead and all that. I figure it's all a matter of statistics. If the murder rate is X%, and public outrage triggers more effective crime prevention or (*gasp*) human decency that reduces it to Y%, then my chances of survival have increased by (X-Y)% (Yes, I'm oversimplifying). It's statistical self-preservation.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
I've seen a lot of people "complain" about 'events' that caused people to die. So what? People died .. ok? It doesn't matter, not even a bit. There are some groups of people who mistakenly think that it does. - People that got hurt financially by those deaths. - Relatives etc. Just because it matters to them, doesn't mean it matters. Also, I don't get why people get so upset about murder especially. Murder is illegal because almost no one wants to die. Not because it is inherently a bad thing when someone is killed. Realize that about 250k people die each day. One (or anything up 250 or so) more or less doesn't make a significant difference. And then there's the overpopulation - murderers are doing us all a (very small) favour by helping a bit. The cause of death is not relevant in any way, except to the current legal system, and to silly people. Is it just because children are indoctrinated to 'care' about deaths? Does human life somehow have "value"? (why should any collection of chemical processes have "value"?) (I have asked this often, just not on CP. I never got satisfying answers.) Discuss. edit: spelling fixed.
modified on Tuesday, June 8, 2010 9:12 AM
It's important to the survival of the human race. As humans evolved, we cared because it helped us survive because a group is stronger than an individual from a survival point of view. I saw a PBS special that explained the evolution of man far better than I could. It covered both the physical and psychological development that makes us, well us.
harold aptroot wrote:
Just because it matters to them, doesn't mean it matters.
This can be applied to anything or any action a person makes. If it doesn't matter so much why don't people kill themselves. I don't suggest anyone doing this.
harold aptroot wrote:
Does human life somehow have "value"? (why should any collection of chemical processes have "value"?)
The only value anything or action has is placed there based on a persons perceptions, beliefs, etc. Mostly faith of one kind or another makes something have value. If you've been reading any of this forum's threads some would believe that precious metals have value while our paper and coin currency is worthless or based on faith. The problem with only believing that precious metals have value while paper doesn't is that it's only worth something because they believe it does. The law puts federal employees, firemen, policemen, etc as having more value if one is murdered because it deprives society of a vital service. That is also perceived value.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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There's two things I hate...
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I've seen a lot of people "complain" about 'events' that caused people to die. So what? People died .. ok? It doesn't matter, not even a bit. There are some groups of people who mistakenly think that it does. - People that got hurt financially by those deaths. - Relatives etc. Just because it matters to them, doesn't mean it matters. Also, I don't get why people get so upset about murder especially. Murder is illegal because almost no one wants to die. Not because it is inherently a bad thing when someone is killed. Realize that about 250k people die each day. One (or anything up 250 or so) more or less doesn't make a significant difference. And then there's the overpopulation - murderers are doing us all a (very small) favour by helping a bit. The cause of death is not relevant in any way, except to the current legal system, and to silly people. Is it just because children are indoctrinated to 'care' about deaths? Does human life somehow have "value"? (why should any collection of chemical processes have "value"?) (I have asked this often, just not on CP. I never got satisfying answers.) Discuss. edit: spelling fixed.
modified on Tuesday, June 8, 2010 9:12 AM
Murder is irellevant. Spelling too.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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There's two things I hate...
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Dutch and empathy?
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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There's two things I hate...
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
It's important to the survival of the human race. As humans evolved, we cared because it helped us survive because a group is stronger than an individual from a survival point of view. I saw a PBS special that explained the evolution of man far better than I could. It covered both the physical and psychological development that makes us, well us.
harold aptroot wrote:
Just because it matters to them, doesn't mean it matters.
This can be applied to anything or any action a person makes. If it doesn't matter so much why don't people kill themselves. I don't suggest anyone doing this.
harold aptroot wrote:
Does human life somehow have "value"? (why should any collection of chemical processes have "value"?)
The only value anything or action has is placed there based on a persons perceptions, beliefs, etc. Mostly faith of one kind or another makes something have value. If you've been reading any of this forum's threads some would believe that precious metals have value while our paper and coin currency is worthless or based on faith. The problem with only believing that precious metals have value while paper doesn't is that it's only worth something because they believe it does. The law puts federal employees, firemen, policemen, etc as having more value if one is murdered because it deprives society of a vital service. That is also perceived value.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
So evolution is to blame - the people who cared most about surviving made the best effort to survive and therefore did? Your currency argument looks valid, but trading with your life is useless (how would you use the thing you bought? you'd be dead.), so is that really a proper parallel to draw?
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Murder is irellevant. Spelling too.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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Dutch and empathy?
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
It's from Ausin Powers. "There's two things I can't stand. People who are intolerant of other people's culture, and the Dutch' I am half Dutch.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Statistics.. ok, but why would I/someone else be trying to increase my/their own chances of survival? It would be hard to care about being dead
Hey, if you're looking for a reason to live, you have to find that yourself.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
I've seen a lot of people "complain" about 'events' that caused people to die. So what? People died .. ok? It doesn't matter, not even a bit. There are some groups of people who mistakenly think that it does. - People that got hurt financially by those deaths. - Relatives etc. Just because it matters to them, doesn't mean it matters. Also, I don't get why people get so upset about murder especially. Murder is illegal because almost no one wants to die. Not because it is inherently a bad thing when someone is killed. Realize that about 250k people die each day. One (or anything up 250 or so) more or less doesn't make a significant difference. And then there's the overpopulation - murderers are doing us all a (very small) favour by helping a bit. The cause of death is not relevant in any way, except to the current legal system, and to silly people. Is it just because children are indoctrinated to 'care' about deaths? Does human life somehow have "value"? (why should any collection of chemical processes have "value"?) (I have asked this often, just not on CP. I never got satisfying answers.) Discuss. edit: spelling fixed.
modified on Tuesday, June 8, 2010 9:12 AM
Just as an aside, I was talking to some SDA people recently, who told me that Adam and Eve MUST have been given the 10 commandments, to know that murder was wrong. Otherwise, how could Cain be guilty for killing Abel. In fact, there is no society on earth that does not recognise the value of human life, and the wrongness of taking it by force. No society who failed to recognise this, would survive.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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OK - it looks like you're serious. In the first instance, the reason we object to murder is self interest. If people are allowed to kill each other, someone can kill you. A society where life is tenuous, is inherently unstable - why work for a future that will probably not happen because life is cheap ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
So evolution is to blame - the people who cared most about surviving made the best effort to survive and therefore did? Your currency argument looks valid, but trading with your life is useless (how would you use the thing you bought? you'd be dead.), so is that really a proper parallel to draw?
harold aptroot wrote:
but trading with your life is useless (how would you use the thing you bought? you'd be dead.), so is that really a proper parallel to draw?
I was just trying to make a couple examples of how value is derived by people having faith in something other than life. Faith is derived from an instinctual desire for there to be rhythm and reason in the universe. The PBS special also covered that as well or at least explained the origin of religion. Valuing things has evolved the same way we have with time. By us not killing each other there is a higher mixture and success of genes mixing. This doesn't negate other ways for people to die, however.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
-
Just as an aside, I was talking to some SDA people recently, who told me that Adam and Eve MUST have been given the 10 commandments, to know that murder was wrong. Otherwise, how could Cain be guilty for killing Abel. In fact, there is no society on earth that does not recognise the value of human life, and the wrongness of taking it by force. No society who failed to recognise this, would survive.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
I've seen a lot of people "complain" about 'events' that caused people to die. So what? People died .. ok? It doesn't matter, not even a bit. There are some groups of people who mistakenly think that it does. - People that got hurt financially by those deaths. - Relatives etc. Just because it matters to them, doesn't mean it matters. Also, I don't get why people get so upset about murder especially. Murder is illegal because almost no one wants to die. Not because it is inherently a bad thing when someone is killed. Realize that about 250k people die each day. One (or anything up 250 or so) more or less doesn't make a significant difference. And then there's the overpopulation - murderers are doing us all a (very small) favour by helping a bit. The cause of death is not relevant in any way, except to the current legal system, and to silly people. Is it just because children are indoctrinated to 'care' about deaths? Does human life somehow have "value"? (why should any collection of chemical processes have "value"?) (I have asked this often, just not on CP. I never got satisfying answers.) Discuss. edit: spelling fixed.
modified on Tuesday, June 8, 2010 9:12 AM
Alright, let's get some basics down. Would you agree that stealing is wrong?
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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I've seen a lot of people "complain" about 'events' that caused people to die. So what? People died .. ok? It doesn't matter, not even a bit. There are some groups of people who mistakenly think that it does. - People that got hurt financially by those deaths. - Relatives etc. Just because it matters to them, doesn't mean it matters. Also, I don't get why people get so upset about murder especially. Murder is illegal because almost no one wants to die. Not because it is inherently a bad thing when someone is killed. Realize that about 250k people die each day. One (or anything up 250 or so) more or less doesn't make a significant difference. And then there's the overpopulation - murderers are doing us all a (very small) favour by helping a bit. The cause of death is not relevant in any way, except to the current legal system, and to silly people. Is it just because children are indoctrinated to 'care' about deaths? Does human life somehow have "value"? (why should any collection of chemical processes have "value"?) (I have asked this often, just not on CP. I never got satisfying answers.) Discuss. edit: spelling fixed.
modified on Tuesday, June 8, 2010 9:12 AM
harold aptroot wrote:
Just because it matters to them, doesn't mean it matters.
Since whether something matters or not is subjective, it mattering to them means it matters.
harold aptroot wrote:
Also, I don't get why people get so upset about murder especially.
It's not really something that can be explained.
harold aptroot wrote:
And then there's the overpopulation - murderers are doing us all a (very small) favour by helping a bit.
Overpopulation isn't really a problem.
harold aptroot wrote:
The cause of death is not relevant in any way, except to the current legal system, and to silly people.
Relevant to what? If it's relevant to people, then how is it irrelevant?
harold aptroot wrote:
Is it just because children are indoctrinated to 'care' about deaths? Does human life somehow have "value"? (why should any collection of chemical processes have "value"?)
No, it's because evolution couldn't possibly have progressed this far if organisms and populations had no motivation for survival.
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Christian Graus wrote:
why work for a future that will probably not happen because life is cheap ?
Why indeed? Someone could still kill you. It's not allowed, but you'd be just as dead. And you'll die anyway, maybe a bit later.
Well, you can say that logically, but the fact is, if I have no hope for the future, I won't work hard for a distant payoff I probably won't see.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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It's from Ausin Powers. "There's two things I can't stand. People who are intolerant of other people's culture, and the Dutch' I am half Dutch.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
"There's two things I can't stand. People who are intolerant of other people's culture, and the Dutch'
I love that quote.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.