Murder is irrelevant. [modified]
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I take it you've never been murdered? :-) Human life has value to other humans that care about those lives, either in a specific way (close family/friends) or a general way (isn't it awful that all those people died in wherever?). So, whilst it is pretty meaningless in the general scale of things if n people get murdered it is meaningful in a much more immediate way. You are, of course, correct, that, in reality, one life, more or less, has no particular meaning to society as a whole; what matters is no one wants it to happen to them so, as a society, we make it unacceptable to take somebody else's life. That way there is less chance that we will be killed by someone else. However, you can't legislate against sociopaths. I guess what most people would be scared of is the manner of death not the fact of death.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
digital man wrote:
I take it you've never been murdered?
Well, there was this one time, in Romania[^]... :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
This guy is an idiot. Overpopulation might or might not be a problem for us today, at our current levels. Given the strain on the food system ( which we in the West rarely see ) and our reliance on fragile monocultures, I'd say it is a problem, in terms of providing food. But, even if it's not, the capacity of the earth to feed humans cannot be infinite, so it is a potential problem at some point.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I dunno. My heart's not in an argument at the moment.
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I dunno. My heart's not in an argument at the moment.
Well, I'd hope you'd not argue the earth has infinite resources. CSS is the only other person I've ever heard claim that.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Well, I'd hope you'd not argue the earth has infinite resources. CSS is the only other person I've ever heard claim that.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Of course I wouldn't argue that. I hope I don't strike you as the sort of person that believes that the Earth is either infinitely large or infinitely fertile, or both.
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Survival instincts. As in, your life is somehow important to you...
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Not necessarily to me (well, to what I see as "me", my consciousness) but to a part of me that I can not control. It's not a problem anyway, though. Just because my life might matter to me, does not mean it matters in the grand scale of things.
harold aptroot wrote:
Just because my life might matter to me, does not mean it matters in the grand scale of things.
No, you're right.
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Of course I wouldn't argue that. I hope I don't strike you as the sort of person that believes that the Earth is either infinitely large or infinitely fertile, or both.
Well, no, you don't. I'm just not sure how else you could argue with what I said, is all :-)
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Well, no, you don't. I'm just not sure how else you could argue with what I said, is all :-)
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
;P <-- what happened here? :confused: I agree, there is undoubtedly an upper limit to the human population size, the carrying capacity if you look at the logistic function. But there are subtleties to population dynamics that we could conceivably discuss, if I didn't have a headache. X|
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Hey, if you're looking for a reason to live, you have to find that yourself.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
;P <-- what happened here? :confused: I agree, there is undoubtedly an upper limit to the human population size, the carrying capacity if you look at the logistic function. But there are subtleties to population dynamics that we could conceivably discuss, if I didn't have a headache. X|
It is broadly true that a lack of resources should control population. Trouble is, a lack of resources is not visible to us in the West. We keep breeding and less food just goes to the third world. I'll stop, you have a headache :-)
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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So evolution is to blame - the people who cared most about surviving made the best effort to survive and therefore did? Your currency argument looks valid, but trading with your life is useless (how would you use the thing you bought? you'd be dead.), so is that really a proper parallel to draw?
harold aptroot wrote:
how would you use the thing you bought? you'd be dead.
Maybe what you bought was the lives of others that carry your genes. There have been simulations showing that altruistic genes survive. Of course, what comes out of simulations depends on assumptions. We are just egg casings for the next generation of DNA.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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It is broadly true that a lack of resources should control population. Trouble is, a lack of resources is not visible to us in the West. We keep breeding and less food just goes to the third world. I'll stop, you have a headache :-)
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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harold aptroot wrote:
how would you use the thing you bought? you'd be dead.
Maybe what you bought was the lives of others that carry your genes. There have been simulations showing that altruistic genes survive. Of course, what comes out of simulations depends on assumptions. We are just egg casings for the next generation of DNA.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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It is broadly true that a lack of resources should control population. Trouble is, a lack of resources is not visible to us in the West. We keep breeding and less food just goes to the third world. I'll stop, you have a headache :-)
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Sooo... Read any good books lately? :-D
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But they keep breeding as well! Even though it's visible to them.. Are they just counting on the West to help them out?
The breeding has a bunch of factors. 1: Conditions were such that the need to breed a lot was required. When mortality rates are that high, the only way to insure a viable heir is to have 4-5. The west messed this up a bit with free modern medicine decreasing the mortality rates. 2: Religion showed up. Birth control?!?! BLASPHEMY!!!!! This further increases birth rates as when the mortality rate drops there was a smaller drop in birth rates than there would be when modern medicine shows. 3: There is no 3.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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digital man wrote:
I take it you've never been murdered?
Well, there was this one time, in Romania[^]... :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Deserves a 5!
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
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I can predict how this one will go... CSS will chime in, calling you a eugenicist. The religious right will talk about life being sacred. The constitutionalists will chime in with the "Life, Liberty, and Property"... Gotta love this forum. But anyway... Yeah, in the greater scheme of things, a few extra people dying really doesn't matter. But if it was YOUR family/friends, I think you would care. If it was YOU, I think... Well, then you probably wouldn't care, being dead and all that. I figure it's all a matter of statistics. If the murder rate is X%, and public outrage triggers more effective crime prevention or (*gasp*) human decency that reduces it to Y%, then my chances of survival have increased by (X-Y)% (Yes, I'm oversimplifying). It's statistical self-preservation.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
that reduces it to Y%, then my chances of survival have increased by (X-Y)%
Hmm... This logic looks rather like the logic of carrying a bomb onto a 'plane, because the chances of there being two bombs on the same 'plane are vanishingly small... :suss: :laugh:
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
that reduces it to Y%, then my chances of survival have increased by (X-Y)%
Hmm... This logic looks rather like the logic of carrying a bomb onto a 'plane, because the chances of there being two bombs on the same 'plane are vanishingly small... :suss: :laugh:
wow, that's a great idea. "Have you ever heard of there being 2 bombs on a plane?" "No" "Neither have I, so I figured if I brought mine, no one would blow me up!"
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
that reduces it to Y%, then my chances of survival have increased by (X-Y)%
Hmm... This logic looks rather like the logic of carrying a bomb onto a 'plane, because the chances of there being two bombs on the same 'plane are vanishingly small... :suss: :laugh:
Hey you might be onto something here. We should set up a test run or two ;P