Murder is irrelevant. [modified]
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Not necessarily to me (well, to what I see as "me", my consciousness) but to a part of me that I can not control. It's not a problem anyway, though. Just because my life might matter to me, does not mean it matters in the grand scale of things.
harold aptroot wrote:
Just because my life might matter to me, does not mean it matters in the grand scale of things.
If you believe in a grand scale then that is kind of like god and he/she says life is precious so don't kill each other. If you don't believe in a grand scale/god then shit's just flying around and you are all that matters so your life is important to you and therefore other folks lives are important to them. Not much in life matters if you are dead right? So your life is extremely important to you. Correct? So if you agree that people (and I guess animals and anything else that is alive and aware that it is alive) are the same and every person must value their own life as much as you value your own life, then how can you think that other people's lives are not as valuable as your own life? Everything being equal my neighbor's life matters as much as mine. No? I think I'm starting to get a headache too! :omg:
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My brain read that too fast and I heard in my head, "I take it you've never been married?". :laugh:
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
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harold aptroot wrote:
Just because my life might matter to me, does not mean it matters in the grand scale of things.
If you believe in a grand scale then that is kind of like god and he/she says life is precious so don't kill each other. If you don't believe in a grand scale/god then shit's just flying around and you are all that matters so your life is important to you and therefore other folks lives are important to them. Not much in life matters if you are dead right? So your life is extremely important to you. Correct? So if you agree that people (and I guess animals and anything else that is alive and aware that it is alive) are the same and every person must value their own life as much as you value your own life, then how can you think that other people's lives are not as valuable as your own life? Everything being equal my neighbor's life matters as much as mine. No? I think I'm starting to get a headache too! :omg:
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Why don't you go on a murder spree?
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Why would I? That's hardly to my advantage - they'd just capture me and no matter how many people I killed, the difference I would have made would be insignificant
harold aptroot wrote:
Why would I?
It might answer your questions.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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harold aptroot wrote:
Why would I?
It might answer your questions.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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I've seen a lot of people "complain" about 'events' that caused people to die. So what? People died .. ok? It doesn't matter, not even a bit. There are some groups of people who mistakenly think that it does. - People that got hurt financially by those deaths. - Relatives etc. Just because it matters to them, doesn't mean it matters. Also, I don't get why people get so upset about murder especially. Murder is illegal because almost no one wants to die. Not because it is inherently a bad thing when someone is killed. Realize that about 250k people die each day. One (or anything up 250 or so) more or less doesn't make a significant difference. And then there's the overpopulation - murderers are doing us all a (very small) favour by helping a bit. The cause of death is not relevant in any way, except to the current legal system, and to silly people. Is it just because children are indoctrinated to 'care' about deaths? Does human life somehow have "value"? (why should any collection of chemical processes have "value"?) (I have asked this often, just not on CP. I never got satisfying answers.) Discuss. edit: spelling fixed.
modified on Tuesday, June 8, 2010 9:12 AM
harold aptroot wrote:
(I have asked this often, just not on CP. I never got satisfying answers.)
That's because the concept of value is a human invention to qualify the relative utility of things but there is no absolute of "value" that can be assigned to anything. Things can be more valuable than other things depending on the frame of reference. Change the frame of reference and you change the relative valuation of those things. Remove the frame of reference and you've rendered the question of value meaningless. Eg. A glass of water is more valuable than a diamond to someone dying of thirst, less valuable to someone with indoor plumbing, and not valuable at all to a pizza. Accordingly, human life is only valuable when other people agree it's valuable. A better question would be if you're really concerned that human life and by extension the human experience has no intrinsic value, of what possible value is exploring the question in the first place? Might as well just get high and wait until you don't exist anymore.
- F
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That is nice, but that doesn't matter either - so what that I'd get some answers? The universe goes on the same way it has been going
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harold aptroot wrote:
(I have asked this often, just not on CP. I never got satisfying answers.)
That's because the concept of value is a human invention to qualify the relative utility of things but there is no absolute of "value" that can be assigned to anything. Things can be more valuable than other things depending on the frame of reference. Change the frame of reference and you change the relative valuation of those things. Remove the frame of reference and you've rendered the question of value meaningless. Eg. A glass of water is more valuable than a diamond to someone dying of thirst, less valuable to someone with indoor plumbing, and not valuable at all to a pizza. Accordingly, human life is only valuable when other people agree it's valuable. A better question would be if you're really concerned that human life and by extension the human experience has no intrinsic value, of what possible value is exploring the question in the first place? Might as well just get high and wait until you don't exist anymore.
- F
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uhm.. I'm not sure I'm following you The idea was that things only matter to someone and not in general - therefore nothing really matters.
harold aptroot wrote:
uhm.. I'm not sure I'm following you
Me neither! :) Nothing Else Matters - pretty good Metallica song!:thumbsup:
harold aptroot wrote:
The idea was that things only matter to someone and not in general
Yep pretty much. Except somehow the human race has decided to take the internalized "things that matter" and apply them to society. So I live in a group and my life matters to me and i don't want you to take my life so I have to agree to not take your life. I guess everything always returns to a self-preservation motive. And murderers think that they can get away with taking others lives without losing their own. I guess that is why we have death penalties. You take something that someone else values and we (as a society) will take that one thing that you most value.
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harold aptroot wrote:
(I have asked this often, just not on CP. I never got satisfying answers.)
That's because the concept of value is a human invention to qualify the relative utility of things but there is no absolute of "value" that can be assigned to anything. Things can be more valuable than other things depending on the frame of reference. Change the frame of reference and you change the relative valuation of those things. Remove the frame of reference and you've rendered the question of value meaningless. Eg. A glass of water is more valuable than a diamond to someone dying of thirst, less valuable to someone with indoor plumbing, and not valuable at all to a pizza. Accordingly, human life is only valuable when other people agree it's valuable. A better question would be if you're really concerned that human life and by extension the human experience has no intrinsic value, of what possible value is exploring the question in the first place? Might as well just get high and wait until you don't exist anymore.
- F
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I just tell the wife she farted and that she needs charcoal tablets so I can get a night's sleep.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
:laugh: :laugh: Oh man I wish I could 5 that!!
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Why would I? That's hardly to my advantage - they'd just capture me and no matter how many people I killed, the difference I would have made would be insignificant
But why should a bag of chemicals care if it's captured?
Steve
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But why should a bag of chemicals care if it's captured?
Steve
It shouldn't. But that's irrelevant, just like everything else. I'm not saying that not being captured is preferable, just that it's useless to get yourself captured on purpose. It's equally useless to put effort into evading capture. And none of that matters at all. So why did you even ask that question?
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It shouldn't. But that's irrelevant, just like everything else. I'm not saying that not being captured is preferable, just that it's useless to get yourself captured on purpose. It's equally useless to put effort into evading capture. And none of that matters at all. So why did you even ask that question?
Your question in irrelevant. Frankly, it's inappropriate for a bag of chemicals to be asking so many questions.
Steve
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I've seen a lot of people "complain" about 'events' that caused people to die. So what? People died .. ok? It doesn't matter, not even a bit. There are some groups of people who mistakenly think that it does. - People that got hurt financially by those deaths. - Relatives etc. Just because it matters to them, doesn't mean it matters. Also, I don't get why people get so upset about murder especially. Murder is illegal because almost no one wants to die. Not because it is inherently a bad thing when someone is killed. Realize that about 250k people die each day. One (or anything up 250 or so) more or less doesn't make a significant difference. And then there's the overpopulation - murderers are doing us all a (very small) favour by helping a bit. The cause of death is not relevant in any way, except to the current legal system, and to silly people. Is it just because children are indoctrinated to 'care' about deaths? Does human life somehow have "value"? (why should any collection of chemical processes have "value"?) (I have asked this often, just not on CP. I never got satisfying answers.) Discuss. edit: spelling fixed.
modified on Tuesday, June 8, 2010 9:12 AM
Ah, typical Dutch point of view! We have an assumed value system, for better or for worse, that states that life has value and we should try to preserve it (unless it is the enemy, or in our way, in which case wwe can take life with impunity (gulf war for example)). Prior to this assumed values system (which is called christianity) we had paganism. It was more important how you died than whether you died, whcih is an interesting point of view given that you will die anyway, and at least choosing to cash it in for the most outrageous, spectacular, memorable/honourable death possible at least gives you some measure of controll. As for why people get upset, its just social instinct/instilled reaction. Actually kids are very interested in death, and will kill animals quite readilly untill they are indoctrinated against doing so.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Murder is irellevant. Spelling too.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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Alright, let's get some basics down. Would you agree that stealing is wrong?
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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Survival instincts. As in, your life is somehow important to you...