Speaking in 'toungues'
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From the Bible, it was done in languages the orator did not know, but that at least some of the audience did. It was not 'worship', in the sense I think you think :rolleyes: means, it was sermons, preaching the Gospel.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
Ah, and you are a Christian too arent you? I got all this from Christian Grauss, he told me that the language in tongues was given by god in order to pray and ia incomprehensible by anyone except god. You say it is given in order to preach and IS comprehensible by some. Interesting difference, and implies aquite a lot. Have to get you and Christian to battle this one out, it wil be interesting.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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RichardM1 wrote:
omniscient and omnipotent, past present and future are the same
A most interesting response. My post was made as a rather light-hearted philosophical comment. However, without challenging the validity of your post, it raises a couple of interesting points. Firstly, the 3D+T universe you have created exhibits random quantum events, which have driven the evolution of the universe since its origin. Your postulate requires that when viewed from a higher set of dimensions, the randomness disappears, and becomes predictable. This would, at the very least, move the creator into a sufficiently higher space for the predictability to occur. The second point is purely personal speculation, but interesting, none the less, and was the result of learning something of 5D tensor calculus, in order to better understand general relativity (just a hobby). The surface of a sphere is two dimensional, but requires a three dimensional space in which to exist. Our 3D+T space is curved by mass, and therefore it must exist in 4D+T space, thus moving any potential creator into a yet higher space. Of course, from a philosophical point of view, none of this helps, as it just keeps the 'ultimate creator' moving into higher and higher spaces, in order to create the previous creator. To borrow an overused expression: "We don't know sh!t!". :)
Chris C-B wrote:
the 3D+T universe you have created exhibits random quantum events
Random at our level of understanding, like you said, creator is in a higher order space.
Chris C-B wrote:
Our 3D+T space is curved by mass, and therefore it must exist in 4D+T space, thus moving any potential creator into a yet higher space.
We live in 3+T, but can create 3+T objects. I'm don't understand GR all that well, but I recall someone (Albert?) being adamant that the curvature of space-time was a property, not a dimension. A 2-d array can be filled with 'curvature' values, but is not 3-D.
Chris C-B wrote:
Of course, from a philosophical point of view, none of this helps, as it just keeps the 'ultimate creator' moving into higher and higher spaces, in order to create the previous creator.
Or, you cut to the chase... :)
Chris C-B wrote:
To borrow an overused technical expression: "We don't know sh!t!".
Yeah, that's part of what makes arguing it so much fun. It gives insight into how the brain creates patterns.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Ah, and you are a Christian too arent you? I got all this from Christian Grauss, he told me that the language in tongues was given by god in order to pray and ia incomprehensible by anyone except god. You say it is given in order to preach and IS comprehensible by some. Interesting difference, and implies aquite a lot. Have to get you and Christian to battle this one out, it wil be interesting.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
He has made other doctrinal assertions about tongues whose basis I do not understand, but that just means I don't understand them (until after he explains, then I can say if he is wrong or not ;P )
fat_boy wrote:
You say it is given in order to preach and IS comprehensible by some.
I say it, but I am trying to describe what the Bible literally says, not interpreting it, about Pentecost.
fat_boy wrote:
Interesting difference, and implies aquite a lot.
There are differences that matter, and differences that don't. The Bible, as far as I know, doesn't require us to agree on the "don't" category. You say I have to speak in tongues if I'm saved, I'll argue about what the Bible says. You tell me works are required to be saved, you might as well be talking about Zeus, because that is not what the Biblical God says.
fat_boy wrote:
Have to get you and Christian to battle this one out, it wil be interesting.
I don't think I'm up for doing that in public. I'll crush someone's argument (or get mine crushed) in public, but that is just arguing. This is a little more delicate on both sides. It won't get either of us sent to Hell, but could really piss someone off. As you are quick to point out, this isn't always rational. Sorry.
Opacity, the new Transparency.