Media Blackout on the Oil Spill
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josda1000 wrote:
Whose to say that one source is more credible than the other?
The most likely truth is to not accept any source, but to read many and look to create a balanced view.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Ian, simple explanation. Media blackout, media propaganda. I don't know if you read my other posts, but you really have to dive into other sources to put two and two together.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two.The big question is always, why is the more obscure source necessarily 100% trustworthy ? Sure, the mainstream media is not, but why is a guy with a shaky video camera and a little bit of HTML knowledge so much better ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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The big question is always, why is the more obscure source necessarily 100% trustworthy ? Sure, the mainstream media is not, but why is a guy with a shaky video camera and a little bit of HTML knowledge so much better ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
The big question is always, why is the more obscure source necessarily 100% trustworthy ?
I'm not saying they are. It's another source, and should be treated as such is what I'm saying. Usually it's written off, and that is a mistake. To counter that point, why is the more mainstream media with a tripod so much better? Just because they have tons of money?
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
The big question is always, why is the more obscure source necessarily 100% trustworthy ? Sure, the mainstream media is not, but why is a guy with a shaky video camera and a little bit of HTML knowledge so much better ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
The big media corporations are in cahoots with the government, and so is BP. MSNBC for example is 80% owned by General Electric, one of the top 5 military contractors.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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The big question is always, why is the more obscure source necessarily 100% trustworthy ? Sure, the mainstream media is not, but why is a guy with a shaky video camera and a little bit of HTML knowledge so much better ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
To continue, another counterpoint: Ask yourself, am I really that arrogant to not check all sources, and give equal weight to all parties? I know you're not, but most people really do subscribe to "mainstream knows all". They just look at the television and take for granted that they know the whole story, when most likely they don't.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
josda1000 wrote:
BP is working with the government, and the government is telling the media what to do. It's immoral, illegal and unlawful. Men need to know the truth, I'm sorry.
I think in this case, the government is working to support BP... My guess would be that the Coast Guard was instructed to "Do whatever you can to assist them", and they're just not questioning BP's instructions. Assuming this, it's just a matter of someone bringing this to light. I do agree that this needs to stop, but don't assume that everything is part of the grand scheme of the Obama administration... Big government is a lot of right-hand/left-hand... As in, nobody knows what anyone else is doing. Maybe it's the Obama administration trying to keep things quiet, or maybe it's BP overreaching their mandate and breaking the law... Maybe it's both. I would put the odds slightly in favor of BP doing something stupid, and the government being too uncoordinated to stop it. I don't think the administration is quite stupid enough to risk this kind of PR hit intentionally, given how much they're hurting already.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Somehow I missed this. Sorry. To argue the points:
Ian Shlasko wrote:
I think in this case, the government is working to support BP.
That's your opinion, and I'd agree with you lol
Ian Shlasko wrote:
My guess would be that the Coast Guard was instructed to "Do whatever you can to assist them", and they're just not questioning BP's instructions.
Again, agreed.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
I do agree that this needs to stop, but don't assume that everything is part of the grand scheme of the Obama administration.
I'm not saying it is, and I wouldn't agree if you did. No way, this isn't "political", this is more about the company.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Big government is a lot of right-hand/left-hand... As in, nobody knows what anyone else is doing.
Which is the precise problem of central planning in the first place. But never mind the government issue, this is less to do with the politics in this case, I believe. This is the "right hand", as you say. "Private sector", if you will. It's about BP making a big mistake and using the government to cover up the enormity of the situation. If they were at fault, and they are, they should be prosecuted in admiralty law, actually. This is a maritime issue, and they should be totally disbanned and bankrupted.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
I would put the odds slightly in favor of BP doing something stupid, and the government being too uncoordinated to stop it.
I agree that they did something stupid, but for their "accident", and because it is such a disaster, they should be prosecuted. The government has nothing to do with this, per se. It was in the gulf of mexico, not on federation soil.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
I don't think the administration is quite stupid enough to risk this kind of PR hit intentionally, given how much they're hurting already.
Agreed, totally.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
josda1000 wrote:
BP is working with the government, and the government is telling the media what to do. It's immoral, illegal and unlawful. Men need to know the truth, I'm sorry.
I think in this case, the government is working to support BP... My guess would be that the Coast Guard was instructed to "Do whatever you can to assist them", and they're just not questioning BP's instructions. Assuming this, it's just a matter of someone bringing this to light. I do agree that this needs to stop, but don't assume that everything is part of the grand scheme of the Obama administration... Big government is a lot of right-hand/left-hand... As in, nobody knows what anyone else is doing. Maybe it's the Obama administration trying to keep things quiet, or maybe it's BP overreaching their mandate and breaking the law... Maybe it's both. I would put the odds slightly in favor of BP doing something stupid, and the government being too uncoordinated to stop it. I don't think the administration is quite stupid enough to risk this kind of PR hit intentionally, given how much they're hurting already.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ah, I forgot to continue... because they are not being prosecuted under admiralty law, leads me to believe even further that the government is sympathetic to BP. the DOJ should be prosecuting them, but are not. Big problem, and a coverup.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
Ian Shlasko wrote:
I'm getting the impression that BP is trying to manage the media situation
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Wouldn't chalk this up to fascism.
Sorry, but that is a direct contradiction. Amendment 1 to the Constitution for the United States of America: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. I realize A) that we're not talking about law making and 2) that you are talking about a corporation managing a completely different SECTOR of the market, but think of the roles here: BP is working with the government, and the government is telling the media what to do. It's immoral, illegal and unlawful. Men need to know the truth, I'm sorry.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
but this does seem like BP is going overboard
At least our conclusions match lol
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two.It isn't the government doing this. And it isn't as bad as you are saying for the blackout. Last night the wife and I watched the news. (her idea, I use websites) On CBS they had all this info and it sounded pretty bad. They were explaining it was catastrophic to businesses, BP was using red tape to slow down damage claims, they lowered a camera in the water to show how bad it was (the thing was unable to see 3 inches) and generally made it look pretty horrible. It talked about how some folks were using local research stuff and how the Federal government or BP's reporting was woefully inadequate, but that the data was out there. During a commercial break, the president of BP got on and told the viewers that they were going to pay for the clean up and that they were doing their best. Even during a fairly damning piece on them, CBS was willing to take a ton of money and let this commercial lower the impact. The info is out there and it is getting out. BP's just paying well to slow it down. The fed is not equipped to handle this sort of thing. Which is a sad state of affairs.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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Christian Graus wrote:
The big question is always, why is the more obscure source necessarily 100% trustworthy ?
I'm not saying they are. It's another source, and should be treated as such is what I'm saying. Usually it's written off, and that is a mistake. To counter that point, why is the more mainstream media with a tripod so much better? Just because they have tons of money?
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two.No, the truth is that they are all mostly worthless. Getting the facts seperate from the spin is very difficult and rarely worth the effort.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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To continue, another counterpoint: Ask yourself, am I really that arrogant to not check all sources, and give equal weight to all parties? I know you're not, but most people really do subscribe to "mainstream knows all". They just look at the television and take for granted that they know the whole story, when most likely they don't.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two.Yes, I've worked hard to raise my daughter to not trust the media, but most people do.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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The big media corporations are in cahoots with the government, and so is BP. MSNBC for example is 80% owned by General Electric, one of the top 5 military contractors.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
OK, so you made an allegation and totally failed to prove it. MSNBC is owned by General Electric. Which of those owns the government ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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OK, so you made an allegation and totally failed to prove it. MSNBC is owned by General Electric. Which of those owns the government ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I said general electric is one of the top 5 military contractors, and owns 80% of MSNBC.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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It isn't the government doing this. And it isn't as bad as you are saying for the blackout. Last night the wife and I watched the news. (her idea, I use websites) On CBS they had all this info and it sounded pretty bad. They were explaining it was catastrophic to businesses, BP was using red tape to slow down damage claims, they lowered a camera in the water to show how bad it was (the thing was unable to see 3 inches) and generally made it look pretty horrible. It talked about how some folks were using local research stuff and how the Federal government or BP's reporting was woefully inadequate, but that the data was out there. During a commercial break, the president of BP got on and told the viewers that they were going to pay for the clean up and that they were doing their best. Even during a fairly damning piece on them, CBS was willing to take a ton of money and let this commercial lower the impact. The info is out there and it is getting out. BP's just paying well to slow it down. The fed is not equipped to handle this sort of thing. Which is a sad state of affairs.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
Fair point. But I do have a couple points to make to your post.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
During a commercial break, the president of BP got on and told the viewers that they were going to pay for the clean up and that they were doing their best.
It's the president of the company. They HAVE to say that they're going to do something about it. What president would say otherwise?
ragnaroknrol wrote:
BP's just paying well to slow it down.
And that's my point. If you take out all of the independent media (which is categorically small at this point) and slow down the mainstream, you're doing well.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
The fed is not equipped to handle this sort of thing. Which is a sad state of affairs.
It's not the government's job to clean it up, it's BP's. And now, they should definitely be prosecuted or fined so heavily that they go bankrupt. Of course, that wouldn't pay for the damage caused to the ocean, but I'm just saying.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
No, the truth is that they are all mostly worthless. Getting the facts seperate from the spin is very difficult and rarely worth the effort.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Then why do we care so much about the oil spill? It's almost like Ian said with the murder post (which I highly disagree with), why do we care about the oil spill or murder if it doesn't effect us directly? It's just more damage done. I realize the effects it will have on the ocean, but think: oil is a natural resource, and even our bodies decay into natural resources called water and dirt. Why do we care about these stories? Why do we even NEED the media, if we already know it's spun out of proportion?!
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
Then why do we care so much about the oil spill? It's almost like Ian said with the murder post (which I highly disagree with), why do we care about the oil spill or murder if it doesn't effect us directly? It's just more damage done. I realize the effects it will have on the ocean, but think: oil is a natural resource, and even our bodies decay into natural resources called water and dirt. Why do we care about these stories? Why do we even NEED the media, if we already know it's spun out of proportion?!
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two.josda1000 wrote:
Why do we care about these stories? Why do we even NEED the media, if we already know it's spun out of proportion?!
The media, esp in the US, mostly lets people hear a constant stream of bad news, which makes them want to know more, and also keeps them in a state of fear. But, it's not that anyone planned to do that, that's just what sells papers. At home, stories about how common people are being pushed under by big companies is the main thing that sells papers.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I said general electric is one of the top 5 military contractors, and owns 80% of MSNBC.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
And you created a link to government that you did not prove.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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josda1000 wrote:
Why do we care about these stories? Why do we even NEED the media, if we already know it's spun out of proportion?!
The media, esp in the US, mostly lets people hear a constant stream of bad news, which makes them want to know more, and also keeps them in a state of fear. But, it's not that anyone planned to do that, that's just what sells papers. At home, stories about how common people are being pushed under by big companies is the main thing that sells papers.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Understood, and agreed. But it's also an innate sense that most people (understood most) have, and that's about morality and obligation. We all have an obligation to do what's right for our fellow man, and care about what happens in the world, and that's why papers sell as well. Just wanted to throw that out there.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
And you created a link to government that you did not prove.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian, he said it loud and clear. General Electric is a military (part of the government? or does he have to prove that military is in the constitution?) contractor, and it owns a media outlet.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
Christian, he said it loud and clear. General Electric is a military (part of the government? or does he have to prove that military is in the constitution?) contractor, and it owns a media outlet.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two.Selling to the military does not mean being part of government.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Understood, and agreed. But it's also an innate sense that most people (understood most) have, and that's about morality and obligation. We all have an obligation to do what's right for our fellow man, and care about what happens in the world, and that's why papers sell as well. Just wanted to throw that out there.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two.josda1000 wrote:
We all have an obligation to do what's right for our fellow man, and care about what happens in the world, and that's why papers sell as well.
I don't think that's the motivation at all. I think there's a level of voyeurism in reading about other people's misfortune, but if we want to do what's right, reading the paper will not help us.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.