"Why Gold?" and other issues with fixed currency
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I love how you can't answer any point I raise, but you think that calling me a moron makes you look less stupid.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
You don't understand basic economics, you don't even understand the difference between inflation and deflation. You don't understand anything.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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You don't understand basic economics, you don't even understand the difference between inflation and deflation. You don't understand anything.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You don't understand basic economics, you don't even understand the difference between inflation and deflation. You don't understand anything.
I am not a whiny pussy like you. If I make a simple mistake, I admit it. I can see how when your life is one big mistake, you'd try to hide your failings. That I made a typo does not mean I don't know what inflation is. That you can read and watch youtube does not mean you know anything.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
"Because that's how it was a hundred years ago"
Great traditions that have stood the test of time are hard to give up. But when we give them up, they can fall either quickly or slowly. This being dependent upon their managed demise.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Why does it have to be based on something physical?
It doesn't. But whatever value it attracts has to be of inherent value. Regulating the value attached to such a "something" requires intervention by some centralised authority otherwise the value of this "something" will mean different things to different people and this something can wildly vary. Defining something as 100% constant is dependent on who or what this constant is. If a constant does not change, how can the variability of the value of goods and labour change. All peoples whether they are individual wage earners or companies wish to acquire more of that something. And as the change in such requirements, so the something becomes that much more scarce so the 100% constant in many ways is a meaningless value. To retain that 100% constant in that scenario would require deflationary pressures to counter the effect of changing prices and changing workers earnings.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Defining something as 100% constant is dependent on who or what this constant is. If a constant does not change, how can the variability of the value of goods and labour change.
Ah, but the value of gold DOES change, however it is a lot less sporadic than fiat currencies. Gold does get inflated, and it does adjust with the market.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
All peoples whether they are individual wage earners or companies wish to acquire more of that something. And as the change in such requirements, so the something becomes that much more scarce so the 100% constant in many ways is a meaningless value.
Agreed. This is why I contend that we get rid of the Fed, and allow the privatization of money altogether. But this is probably way outside the scope of the thread, and definitely already outside the scope of most thinkers here.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
Ian Shlasko wrote:
As in, if we ARE going to use fixed currency, why does it have to be based on gold/silver?
Gold and silver are in limited supply, and cannot be created out of thin air. Gold and silver are stable, unlike platinum, which swings in price depending on how the auto industry is doing (platinum is used in catalytic converters).
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Gold is used in all sorts of things, too.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Gold is used in all sorts of things, too.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
Gold is used in all sorts of things, too.
Gold is stable. The price of gold isn't effected by industry nearly as much as the price of platinum.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Gold has been used in the electronics industry for years and years. The cost of electronic components and the finished product have, over the years, came down in price. Competition does that for you, but where a monopoly exists, prices could soar.
Right, so if gold was suddenly considered currency and increased a hundredfold in value, the costs of these components would skyrocket. I was trying to give a more obvious example of how this could affect technology in general, and vice versa.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
What sort of moron would say that gold has no value ? Whoever they are, I hope they have gold, I'll take it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/3499399/Re-JOTD-Bernanke-Puzzled-by-Gold-Rally.aspx[^] You didn't say that gold didn't have value, but you definitely didn't answer the question well.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
Christian Graus wrote:
Gold is used in all sorts of things, too.
Gold is stable. The price of gold isn't effected by industry nearly as much as the price of platinum.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
Not after you've got your way and made it into the core form of currency
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/3499399/Re-JOTD-Bernanke-Puzzled-by-Gold-Rally.aspx[^] You didn't say that gold didn't have value, but you definitely didn't answer the question well.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two.I said that gold DOES have value, as do all commodities. That is the truth. You're trying to argue with a straw man here, that's the issue.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You don't understand basic economics, you don't even understand the difference between inflation and deflation. You don't understand anything.
I am not a whiny pussy like you. If I make a simple mistake, I admit it. I can see how when your life is one big mistake, you'd try to hide your failings. That I made a typo does not mean I don't know what inflation is. That you can read and watch youtube does not mean you know anything.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I said if a coin taken out of circulation, its value is transferred to all the other coins in circulation. You asked me "How does that work, they do a poll to ask everyone how much they lost ?" as if some central authority sets the value of the coinage. That is not how it works. The value if the currency is set naturally by the amount of it in circulation. You are a moron.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Christian Graus wrote:
Gold is used in all sorts of things, too.
Gold is stable. The price of gold isn't effected by industry nearly as much as the price of platinum.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
Using your own example... Before catalytic converters were invented, wasn't platinum stable? Even assuming that gold is stable -now-, who's to say that won't change in a few years when the next "big thing" comes along?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
I said that gold DOES have value, as do all commodities. That is the truth. You're trying to argue with a straw man here, that's the issue.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I said that gold DOES have value, as do all commodities. That is the truth. You're trying to argue with a straw man here, that's the issue.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Let me be more precise. Gold has value. We know that. That's not my point. You're saying that if we used gold, then the rich would get richer. If that's true, then you're suggesting that there would be only corporations and no money. Well, you're wrong, cuz you've already got minimum wage laws, welfare, and other such crap that doesn't make sense and is just political pandering. Look. It's nonsense. Gold is just a medium of exchange, just like paper is right now.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
Using your own example... Before catalytic converters were invented, wasn't platinum stable? Even assuming that gold is stable -now-, who's to say that won't change in a few years when the next "big thing" comes along?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
Before catalytic converters were invented, wasn't platinum stable?
I don't know, it wasn't recognized as currency so the demand for it was not relatively constant. Since demand for it was not relatively constant the price of the metal will fluctuate wildly.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Even assuming that gold is stable -now-, who's to say that won't change in a few years when the next "big thing" comes along?
It is possible, but lets say if platinum was currency. I don't think the value of the currency would change as demand for catuylic converters changes since demand for the currency is relatively constant.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Christian Graus wrote:
Gold is used in all sorts of things, too.
Gold is stable. The price of gold isn't effected by industry nearly as much as the price of platinum.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Right, so if gold was suddenly considered currency and increased a hundredfold in value, the costs of these components would skyrocket. I was trying to give a more obvious example of how this could affect technology in general, and vice versa.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
I was trying to give a more obvious example of how this could affect technology in general, and vice versa.
Frankly, if the object you create that uses some quantity of gold, and gold soars in price because it is your currency, if that object then becomes unaffordable, then it won't be made, consequently, technological development falters. The effect on technology would be one of disaster especially if this object is a pre-requirement in the further development of technology. For example - computer aided design and computer aided manufacture would suffer as the objects they design/create/produce would be so expensive that commercial risk of failure high. Why? computers use electronic components that have some degree of gold as a pre-requirement in their manufacture, and if gold is your currency then such will be beyond affordability.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Defining something as 100% constant is dependent on who or what this constant is. If a constant does not change, how can the variability of the value of goods and labour change.
Ah, but the value of gold DOES change, however it is a lot less sporadic than fiat currencies. Gold does get inflated, and it does adjust with the market.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
All peoples whether they are individual wage earners or companies wish to acquire more of that something. And as the change in such requirements, so the something becomes that much more scarce so the 100% constant in many ways is a meaningless value.
Agreed. This is why I contend that we get rid of the Fed, and allow the privatization of money altogether. But this is probably way outside the scope of the thread, and definitely already outside the scope of most thinkers here.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two.josda1000 wrote:
Agreed. This is why I contend that we get rid of the Fed, and allow the privatization of money altogether. But this is probably way outside the scope of the thread, and definitely already outside the scope of most thinkers here.
So your solution is to go back to the days when every bank had its own currency?
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
Before catalytic converters were invented, wasn't platinum stable?
I don't know, it wasn't recognized as currency so the demand for it was not relatively constant. Since demand for it was not relatively constant the price of the metal will fluctuate wildly.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Even assuming that gold is stable -now-, who's to say that won't change in a few years when the next "big thing" comes along?
It is possible, but lets say if platinum was currency. I don't think the value of the currency would change as demand for catuylic converters changes since demand for the currency is relatively constant.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
It is possible, but lets say if platinum was currency. I don't think the value of the currency would change as demand for catuylic converters changes since demand for the currency is relatively constant.
If we started using gold-backed currency today, and a year from now something like the catalytic converter becomes industry standard and requires gold to manufacture, don't you think that would affect the currency?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Ian Shlasko wrote:
I was trying to give a more obvious example of how this could affect technology in general, and vice versa.
Frankly, if the object you create that uses some quantity of gold, and gold soars in price because it is your currency, if that object then becomes unaffordable, then it won't be made, consequently, technological development falters. The effect on technology would be one of disaster especially if this object is a pre-requirement in the further development of technology. For example - computer aided design and computer aided manufacture would suffer as the objects they design/create/produce would be so expensive that commercial risk of failure high. Why? computers use electronic components that have some degree of gold as a pre-requirement in their manufacture, and if gold is your currency then such will be beyond affordability.
Precisely my point :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
josda1000 wrote:
Agreed. This is why I contend that we get rid of the Fed, and allow the privatization of money altogether. But this is probably way outside the scope of the thread, and definitely already outside the scope of most thinkers here.
So your solution is to go back to the days when every bank had its own currency?
Not quite... though it's close. I'd say the states should theoretically have their own currencies, but that's banned in the Constitution. So what I propose is, because of Article 1 Section 10: "No state shall... coin Money... make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts", the Federal government should coin money AND the private sector should as well. The key is to be using gold and silver, whether backing certificates or be using the physical gold and silver itself. The thing is, banks could exchange their own, and other businesses could coin their own as well.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two.