"Why Gold?" and other issues with fixed currency
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What sort of moron would say that gold has no value ? Whoever they are, I hope they have gold, I'll take it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/3499399/Re-JOTD-Bernanke-Puzzled-by-Gold-Rally.aspx[^] You didn't say that gold didn't have value, but you definitely didn't answer the question well.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/3499399/Re-JOTD-Bernanke-Puzzled-by-Gold-Rally.aspx[^] You didn't say that gold didn't have value, but you definitely didn't answer the question well.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two.I said that gold DOES have value, as do all commodities. That is the truth. You're trying to argue with a straw man here, that's the issue.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Gold is used in all sorts of things, too.
Gold is stable. The price of gold isn't effected by industry nearly as much as the price of platinum.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
Not after you've got your way and made it into the core form of currency
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Gold is used in all sorts of things, too.
Gold is stable. The price of gold isn't effected by industry nearly as much as the price of platinum.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
Using your own example... Before catalytic converters were invented, wasn't platinum stable? Even assuming that gold is stable -now-, who's to say that won't change in a few years when the next "big thing" comes along?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You don't understand basic economics, you don't even understand the difference between inflation and deflation. You don't understand anything.
I am not a whiny pussy like you. If I make a simple mistake, I admit it. I can see how when your life is one big mistake, you'd try to hide your failings. That I made a typo does not mean I don't know what inflation is. That you can read and watch youtube does not mean you know anything.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I said if a coin taken out of circulation, its value is transferred to all the other coins in circulation. You asked me "How does that work, they do a poll to ask everyone how much they lost ?" as if some central authority sets the value of the coinage. That is not how it works. The value if the currency is set naturally by the amount of it in circulation. You are a moron.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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I said that gold DOES have value, as do all commodities. That is the truth. You're trying to argue with a straw man here, that's the issue.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I said that gold DOES have value, as do all commodities. That is the truth. You're trying to argue with a straw man here, that's the issue.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Let me be more precise. Gold has value. We know that. That's not my point. You're saying that if we used gold, then the rich would get richer. If that's true, then you're suggesting that there would be only corporations and no money. Well, you're wrong, cuz you've already got minimum wage laws, welfare, and other such crap that doesn't make sense and is just political pandering. Look. It's nonsense. Gold is just a medium of exchange, just like paper is right now.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
Using your own example... Before catalytic converters were invented, wasn't platinum stable? Even assuming that gold is stable -now-, who's to say that won't change in a few years when the next "big thing" comes along?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
Before catalytic converters were invented, wasn't platinum stable?
I don't know, it wasn't recognized as currency so the demand for it was not relatively constant. Since demand for it was not relatively constant the price of the metal will fluctuate wildly.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Even assuming that gold is stable -now-, who's to say that won't change in a few years when the next "big thing" comes along?
It is possible, but lets say if platinum was currency. I don't think the value of the currency would change as demand for catuylic converters changes since demand for the currency is relatively constant.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Christian Graus wrote:
Gold is used in all sorts of things, too.
Gold is stable. The price of gold isn't effected by industry nearly as much as the price of platinum.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Right, so if gold was suddenly considered currency and increased a hundredfold in value, the costs of these components would skyrocket. I was trying to give a more obvious example of how this could affect technology in general, and vice versa.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
I was trying to give a more obvious example of how this could affect technology in general, and vice versa.
Frankly, if the object you create that uses some quantity of gold, and gold soars in price because it is your currency, if that object then becomes unaffordable, then it won't be made, consequently, technological development falters. The effect on technology would be one of disaster especially if this object is a pre-requirement in the further development of technology. For example - computer aided design and computer aided manufacture would suffer as the objects they design/create/produce would be so expensive that commercial risk of failure high. Why? computers use electronic components that have some degree of gold as a pre-requirement in their manufacture, and if gold is your currency then such will be beyond affordability.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Defining something as 100% constant is dependent on who or what this constant is. If a constant does not change, how can the variability of the value of goods and labour change.
Ah, but the value of gold DOES change, however it is a lot less sporadic than fiat currencies. Gold does get inflated, and it does adjust with the market.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
All peoples whether they are individual wage earners or companies wish to acquire more of that something. And as the change in such requirements, so the something becomes that much more scarce so the 100% constant in many ways is a meaningless value.
Agreed. This is why I contend that we get rid of the Fed, and allow the privatization of money altogether. But this is probably way outside the scope of the thread, and definitely already outside the scope of most thinkers here.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two.josda1000 wrote:
Agreed. This is why I contend that we get rid of the Fed, and allow the privatization of money altogether. But this is probably way outside the scope of the thread, and definitely already outside the scope of most thinkers here.
So your solution is to go back to the days when every bank had its own currency?
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
Before catalytic converters were invented, wasn't platinum stable?
I don't know, it wasn't recognized as currency so the demand for it was not relatively constant. Since demand for it was not relatively constant the price of the metal will fluctuate wildly.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Even assuming that gold is stable -now-, who's to say that won't change in a few years when the next "big thing" comes along?
It is possible, but lets say if platinum was currency. I don't think the value of the currency would change as demand for catuylic converters changes since demand for the currency is relatively constant.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
It is possible, but lets say if platinum was currency. I don't think the value of the currency would change as demand for catuylic converters changes since demand for the currency is relatively constant.
If we started using gold-backed currency today, and a year from now something like the catalytic converter becomes industry standard and requires gold to manufacture, don't you think that would affect the currency?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Ian Shlasko wrote:
I was trying to give a more obvious example of how this could affect technology in general, and vice versa.
Frankly, if the object you create that uses some quantity of gold, and gold soars in price because it is your currency, if that object then becomes unaffordable, then it won't be made, consequently, technological development falters. The effect on technology would be one of disaster especially if this object is a pre-requirement in the further development of technology. For example - computer aided design and computer aided manufacture would suffer as the objects they design/create/produce would be so expensive that commercial risk of failure high. Why? computers use electronic components that have some degree of gold as a pre-requirement in their manufacture, and if gold is your currency then such will be beyond affordability.
Precisely my point :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
josda1000 wrote:
Agreed. This is why I contend that we get rid of the Fed, and allow the privatization of money altogether. But this is probably way outside the scope of the thread, and definitely already outside the scope of most thinkers here.
So your solution is to go back to the days when every bank had its own currency?
Not quite... though it's close. I'd say the states should theoretically have their own currencies, but that's banned in the Constitution. So what I propose is, because of Article 1 Section 10: "No state shall... coin Money... make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts", the Federal government should coin money AND the private sector should as well. The key is to be using gold and silver, whether backing certificates or be using the physical gold and silver itself. The thing is, banks could exchange their own, and other businesses could coin their own as well.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
It is possible, but lets say if platinum was currency. I don't think the value of the currency would change as demand for catuylic converters changes since demand for the currency is relatively constant.
If we started using gold-backed currency today, and a year from now something like the catalytic converter becomes industry standard and requires gold to manufacture, don't you think that would affect the currency?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
If we started using gold-backed currency today, and a year from now something like the catalytic converter becomes industry standard and requires gold to manufacture, don't you think that would affect the currency?
Since the demand for gold would be relatively constant due to it being currency, then the value of the currency would also be relatively constant. There would be deflationary pressure on gold, since it would be taken out of circulation until the catalytic converter is recycled. The deflationary pressure would increase mining profitability. That incentive would drive people to mine more gold.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
If we started using gold-backed currency today, and a year from now something like the catalytic converter becomes industry standard and requires gold to manufacture, don't you think that would affect the currency?
Since the demand for gold would be relatively constant due to it being currency, then the value of the currency would also be relatively constant. There would be deflationary pressure on gold, since it would be taken out of circulation until the catalytic converter is recycled. The deflationary pressure would increase mining profitability. That incentive would drive people to mine more gold.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Since the demand for gold would be relatively constant due to it being currency
Does this necessarily follow? If gold suddenly becomes a requirement for the next technological step forward... Hell, think bigger than catalytic converters... Think interstellar travel, or flying cars, or holographic displays, or artificial intelligence... Something with the potential to completely change the human race as we know it. If that happened (And it's not that much of a stretch - Gold is one of the best electrical conductors), don't you think it would make gold a poor choice of currency? Either these things would be made in such huge numbers that the currency would greatly deflate, or gold would be so expensive that these would never be produced in the first place, and our technological progress would potentially halt. By the way, I appreciate that you're actually trying to discuss the topic instead of resorting to insults and rhetoric.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The price of gold isn't effected by industry nearly as much as the price of platinum.
Or silver, for that matter.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two.Silver is used all over the place. I used it in solder. Gold is used to coat electronics all over the place and in that case is often used as a cover over nickle to keep it from oxidizing. It is burned off in the process of soldering those parts. Platinum is a much better currency. Higher value, not as reactive so as to be destroyed by smart people seeking to make their gold more valuable and only used in one industry. Diamonds would be even better currency, but since only one company owns them all, might be an issue. You folks want gold to be used because it has been used traditionally. Well, traditionally they fixed diseases using leeches and insanity with drilling holes in people's heads and taking out part of their brains. Not every tradition is a good one.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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Silver is used all over the place. I used it in solder. Gold is used to coat electronics all over the place and in that case is often used as a cover over nickle to keep it from oxidizing. It is burned off in the process of soldering those parts. Platinum is a much better currency. Higher value, not as reactive so as to be destroyed by smart people seeking to make their gold more valuable and only used in one industry. Diamonds would be even better currency, but since only one company owns them all, might be an issue. You folks want gold to be used because it has been used traditionally. Well, traditionally they fixed diseases using leeches and insanity with drilling holes in people's heads and taking out part of their brains. Not every tradition is a good one.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
If you'd taken the time to read my other posts, I'm all for any elemental metal. I just see that gold and silver is allowed under the Constitution. But technically speaking, I'm all for any elemental metal. And quite honestly, I would definitely love to use platinum, because as you said, it has much higher value. Right on the money. Pun intended.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two. -
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Where possible, or feasible, the face value of this "something" should be exchangeable for gold or silver
But why? Why gold or silver? Why those particular metals? "Because that's how it was a hundred years ago" isn't a good argument, because the world has changed a great deal in the last century. Why does it have to be based on something physical? As long as everyone agrees on its value, it doesn't need metal behind it. If the US changed its policy from "The money supply will be adjusted to regulate the economy" to "The money supply is now 100% constant", wouldn't that have the same effect?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Other reasons for gold and silver are that it is impossible to duplicate or counterfeit these elements. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
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Not quite... though it's close. I'd say the states should theoretically have their own currencies, but that's banned in the Constitution. So what I propose is, because of Article 1 Section 10: "No state shall... coin Money... make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts", the Federal government should coin money AND the private sector should as well. The key is to be using gold and silver, whether backing certificates or be using the physical gold and silver itself. The thing is, banks could exchange their own, and other businesses could coin their own as well.
Josh Davis
Always looking for blackjack. Or maybe White Frank. One of the two.I have decided to make a bank. "The First Bank of Ragnarok" It will only use gold certificates. That is the only thing of value, after all. If you want a withdrawal, it is only in gold and takes 48-72 hours. Sorry, but you aren't getting it earlier. I am not able to open the vault more than once every 2 days, at a random time. Sorry, but a good bank robber would be able to steal all your money, since the Fed doesn't have the amount of gold needed to back up all the banks. No once can manage that. Don't worry though, your gold is safe, until you walk out...
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.