Congressional Hearings
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I'm listening to this live: at present each member of the committee is allotted time to make an opening statement (several minutes). So far one has yielded her time so as to give more time to the hearings, several others have stuck to the facts. The rest have all made political speeches. What a pack of blow-hards: what is the point: don't make speeches; get on with it. Yes, we know BP fucked up. We know they'll pay 'reparations'. We know they'll fix it. So instead of assigning blame (in a way that makes the politicians look like they could actually find their arse with both hands) how about getting on with fixing it?
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
It's not like this is some recent phenomenon. There's a killer passage in Herodotus' History where a group of Persian noblemen debate the perfect form of government. Greek-style democracy is briefly considered and quickly eliminated from consideration; the conclusion was that democracy's fatal weakness was that a mob is too easily misled by a capable orator. It was seen as a weak form of government, less capable of dealing with crisis than, say, a dictatorship or oligarchy.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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It's not like this is some recent phenomenon. There's a killer passage in Herodotus' History where a group of Persian noblemen debate the perfect form of government. Greek-style democracy is briefly considered and quickly eliminated from consideration; the conclusion was that democracy's fatal weakness was that a mob is too easily misled by a capable orator. It was seen as a weak form of government, less capable of dealing with crisis than, say, a dictatorship or oligarchy.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
LunaticFringe wrote:
It was seen as a weak form of government, less capable of dealing with crisis than, say, a dictatorship or oligarchy.
The main problem with dictatorships is that people don't realize I should be in charge. ;)
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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LunaticFringe wrote:
It was seen as a weak form of government, less capable of dealing with crisis than, say, a dictatorship or oligarchy.
The main problem with dictatorships is that people don't realize I should be in charge. ;)
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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How about we share. I want South America, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Spain, and France. You can have the rest. (Mostly I want France so I can have kids with slingshots threaten Paris and have it surrender once a week.)
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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I'm listening to this live: at present each member of the committee is allotted time to make an opening statement (several minutes). So far one has yielded her time so as to give more time to the hearings, several others have stuck to the facts. The rest have all made political speeches. What a pack of blow-hards: what is the point: don't make speeches; get on with it. Yes, we know BP fucked up. We know they'll pay 'reparations'. We know they'll fix it. So instead of assigning blame (in a way that makes the politicians look like they could actually find their arse with both hands) how about getting on with fixing it?
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
The Associated Press has published this list of how much money members of the House Energy and Commerce Committee have received in political contributions from oil and gas interests since the beginning of 2009, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Contributions are from political action committees run by oil and gas companies and from individuals employed by those companies. Tammy Baldwin, D-Wis., none John Barrow, D-Ga., $31,500 Joe Barton, R-Texas, $100,470 Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., $33,500 Roy Blunt, R-Mo., $133,100 Mary Bono Mack, R-Calif., $5,750 Rick Boucher, D-Va., $36,000 Bruce Braley, D-Iowa, none Michael Burgess, R-Texas, $39,350 G.K. Butterfield, D-N.C., $19,500 Steve Buyer, R-Ind., $5,000 Lois Capps, D-Calif., none Kathy Castor, D-Fla., none Donna Christian-Christensen, D-Virgin Islands, $1,500 Nathan Deal, R-Ga., none Diana DeGette, D-Colo., $2,250 John D Dingell, D-Mich., $7,000 Mike Doyle, D-Pa., $8,000 Eliot L Engel, D-N.Y., none Anna Eshoo, D-Calif., none Phil Gingrey, R-Ga., $20,500 Charlie A Gonzalez, D-Texas, $30,000 Bart Gordon, D-Tenn., $13,500 Gene Green, D-Texas, $43,500 Ralph M Hall, R-Texas, $31,250 Jane Harman, D-Calif., $3,000 Baron Hill, D-Ind., $2,000 Jay Inslee, D-Wash., none Edward J Markey, D-Mass., $16,000 Jim Matheson, D-Utah, $47,750 Doris O Matsui, D-Calif., $7,500 Jerry McNerney, D-Calif., $3,000 Charles Melancon, D-La., $65,500 Chris Murphy, D-Conn., $6,800 Tim Murphy, R-Pa., $62,950 Sue Myrick, R-N.C., $11,500 Frank Pallone Jr., D-N.J., none Joe Pitts, R-Pa., $18,000 George Radanovich, R-Calif., $14,000 Mike Rogers, R-Mich., $20,400 Mike Ross, D-Ark., $76,950 Bobby L Rush, D-Ill., $1,000 John Sarbanes, D-Md., $3,300 Steve Scalise, R-La., $44,335 Jan Schakowsky, D-Ill., none John Shadegg, R-Ariz., $13,400 John M Shimkus, R-Ill., $34,000 Zachary T Space, D-Ohio, $9,600 Cliff Stearns, R-Fla., $1,000 Bart Stupak, D-Mich., $12,000 John Sullivan, R-Okla., $65,250 Betty Sue Sutton, D-Ohio, $6,000 Lee Terry, R-Neb., $30,350 Fred Upton, R-Mich., $22,000 Greg Walden, R-Ore., $31,200 Henry A Waxman, D-Calif., $6,000 Anthony D Weiner, D-N.Y., none Peter Welch, D-Vt., $10,000 Ed Whitfield, R-Ky., $20,500
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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How about we share. I want South America, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Spain, and France. You can have the rest. (Mostly I want France so I can have kids with slingshots threaten Paris and have it surrender once a week.)
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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The Associated Press has published this list of how much money members of the House Energy and Commerce Committee have received in political contributions from oil and gas interests since the beginning of 2009, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Contributions are from political action committees run by oil and gas companies and from individuals employed by those companies. Tammy Baldwin, D-Wis., none John Barrow, D-Ga., $31,500 Joe Barton, R-Texas, $100,470 Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., $33,500 Roy Blunt, R-Mo., $133,100 Mary Bono Mack, R-Calif., $5,750 Rick Boucher, D-Va., $36,000 Bruce Braley, D-Iowa, none Michael Burgess, R-Texas, $39,350 G.K. Butterfield, D-N.C., $19,500 Steve Buyer, R-Ind., $5,000 Lois Capps, D-Calif., none Kathy Castor, D-Fla., none Donna Christian-Christensen, D-Virgin Islands, $1,500 Nathan Deal, R-Ga., none Diana DeGette, D-Colo., $2,250 John D Dingell, D-Mich., $7,000 Mike Doyle, D-Pa., $8,000 Eliot L Engel, D-N.Y., none Anna Eshoo, D-Calif., none Phil Gingrey, R-Ga., $20,500 Charlie A Gonzalez, D-Texas, $30,000 Bart Gordon, D-Tenn., $13,500 Gene Green, D-Texas, $43,500 Ralph M Hall, R-Texas, $31,250 Jane Harman, D-Calif., $3,000 Baron Hill, D-Ind., $2,000 Jay Inslee, D-Wash., none Edward J Markey, D-Mass., $16,000 Jim Matheson, D-Utah, $47,750 Doris O Matsui, D-Calif., $7,500 Jerry McNerney, D-Calif., $3,000 Charles Melancon, D-La., $65,500 Chris Murphy, D-Conn., $6,800 Tim Murphy, R-Pa., $62,950 Sue Myrick, R-N.C., $11,500 Frank Pallone Jr., D-N.J., none Joe Pitts, R-Pa., $18,000 George Radanovich, R-Calif., $14,000 Mike Rogers, R-Mich., $20,400 Mike Ross, D-Ark., $76,950 Bobby L Rush, D-Ill., $1,000 John Sarbanes, D-Md., $3,300 Steve Scalise, R-La., $44,335 Jan Schakowsky, D-Ill., none John Shadegg, R-Ariz., $13,400 John M Shimkus, R-Ill., $34,000 Zachary T Space, D-Ohio, $9,600 Cliff Stearns, R-Fla., $1,000 Bart Stupak, D-Mich., $12,000 John Sullivan, R-Okla., $65,250 Betty Sue Sutton, D-Ohio, $6,000 Lee Terry, R-Neb., $30,350 Fred Upton, R-Mich., $22,000 Greg Walden, R-Ore., $31,200 Henry A Waxman, D-Calif., $6,000 Anthony D Weiner, D-N.Y., none Peter Welch, D-Vt., $10,000 Ed Whitfield, R-Ky., $20,500
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
Joe Barton, R-Texas, $100,470 Roy Blunt, R-Mo., $133,100 I need to talk to whoever ran these guys' campaigns and run for office.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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Trying to grab all the beaches? OK, I'll take the South Pacific and everything in it.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
No, just the pretty latina ladies, and Champaign. I have a plan. I may be on a restricted diet (ie married) but it doesn't mean I can't have the menu paraded out to be admired. The beaches and beautiful scenery is just icing on the cake.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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Joe Barton, R-Texas, $100,470 Roy Blunt, R-Mo., $133,100 I need to talk to whoever ran these guys' campaigns and run for office.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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Joe Barton, R-Texas, $100,470 Roy Blunt, R-Mo., $133,100 I need to talk to whoever ran these guys' campaigns and run for office.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
Check it out, rags - I'll answer my own question. So Joe Barton was the single biggest benificiary, right? Here's a quote from the BBC story on the hearing: Congressman Joe Barton, the senior Republican on Mr Waxman's committee, said that while he agreed BP should explain its actions, he was "ashamed" to see the firm being made to set up the compensation fund. BP, he suggested, had been subjected to a "$20bn shakedown" by the Obama administration. Hey, BP gets the representation they pay for! How 'bout that, huh? X|
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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Check it out, rags - I'll answer my own question. So Joe Barton was the single biggest benificiary, right? Here's a quote from the BBC story on the hearing: Congressman Joe Barton, the senior Republican on Mr Waxman's committee, said that while he agreed BP should explain its actions, he was "ashamed" to see the firm being made to set up the compensation fund. BP, he suggested, had been subjected to a "$20bn shakedown" by the Obama administration. Hey, BP gets the representation they pay for! How 'bout that, huh? X|
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
So all it takes for me to get a guy that will try to keep me from paying a few billion for a screw up I am ultimately responsible for is 130K? CHEAP! I need that good a return on my investment in my savings account.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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US politicians are about as useful as nipples on a man.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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So all it takes for me to get a guy that will try to keep me from paying a few billion for a screw up I am ultimately responsible for is 130K? CHEAP! I need that good a return on my investment in my savings account.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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I agree with him. They should not be forced to do it without due process. Unreasonable search and seizure, if not from the company, from the stock holders.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
Unreasonable Search and seizure? "Who is using the oil rig?" "Us" "Who is supposed to make sure regulations are followed so spills don't happen?" "Us" "Who screwed up?" "Us" "Well, investigation's done, pay up." The majority of the stock in the company is owned by the company, they like a lot of companies, bought back a huge amount of their stock when GW and the Reps owned Congress and gas prices were at all time highs. As for the other stock holders, tough. Sometimes you lose money when the company you invested in screws up.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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:-O if you don't think they are useful, search the internet a little. ;P
Opacity, the new Transparency.
So politicians are useful for screwing around with, mocking, attaching clamps to, and twisting violently to get a bit of gratification? I stand by my original comment. :cool:
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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I'm listening to this live: at present each member of the committee is allotted time to make an opening statement (several minutes). So far one has yielded her time so as to give more time to the hearings, several others have stuck to the facts. The rest have all made political speeches. What a pack of blow-hards: what is the point: don't make speeches; get on with it. Yes, we know BP fucked up. We know they'll pay 'reparations'. We know they'll fix it. So instead of assigning blame (in a way that makes the politicians look like they could actually find their arse with both hands) how about getting on with fixing it?
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
digital man wrote:
(in a way that makes the politicians look like they could actually find their arse with both hands)
As opposed to a mountain rescue team, six Humvees and four motorised search lights (which is what a lot of them need)?
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
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So politicians are useful for screwing around with, mocking, attaching clamps to, and twisting violently to get a bit of gratification? I stand by my original comment. :cool:
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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Unreasonable Search and seizure? "Who is using the oil rig?" "Us" "Who is supposed to make sure regulations are followed so spills don't happen?" "Us" "Who screwed up?" "Us" "Well, investigation's done, pay up." The majority of the stock in the company is owned by the company, they like a lot of companies, bought back a huge amount of their stock when GW and the Reps owned Congress and gas prices were at all time highs. As for the other stock holders, tough. Sometimes you lose money when the company you invested in screws up.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
Who want to be judge jury and executioner? ragnaroknrol Who believes in unreasonable seizure? ragnaroknrol Who should we throw in jail for violating the constitution? ragnaroknrol Well, investigations done, go directly to jail. You may not like that it applies in this case, but unless you want me be the one who decides when due process doesn't apply, it applies all the time. And you don't want me to be the one, because due process will immediately be thrown out to put you in jail for un-American thought! :laugh: :laugh:
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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The Associated Press has published this list of how much money members of the House Energy and Commerce Committee have received in political contributions from oil and gas interests since the beginning of 2009, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Contributions are from political action committees run by oil and gas companies and from individuals employed by those companies. Tammy Baldwin, D-Wis., none John Barrow, D-Ga., $31,500 Joe Barton, R-Texas, $100,470 Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., $33,500 Roy Blunt, R-Mo., $133,100 Mary Bono Mack, R-Calif., $5,750 Rick Boucher, D-Va., $36,000 Bruce Braley, D-Iowa, none Michael Burgess, R-Texas, $39,350 G.K. Butterfield, D-N.C., $19,500 Steve Buyer, R-Ind., $5,000 Lois Capps, D-Calif., none Kathy Castor, D-Fla., none Donna Christian-Christensen, D-Virgin Islands, $1,500 Nathan Deal, R-Ga., none Diana DeGette, D-Colo., $2,250 John D Dingell, D-Mich., $7,000 Mike Doyle, D-Pa., $8,000 Eliot L Engel, D-N.Y., none Anna Eshoo, D-Calif., none Phil Gingrey, R-Ga., $20,500 Charlie A Gonzalez, D-Texas, $30,000 Bart Gordon, D-Tenn., $13,500 Gene Green, D-Texas, $43,500 Ralph M Hall, R-Texas, $31,250 Jane Harman, D-Calif., $3,000 Baron Hill, D-Ind., $2,000 Jay Inslee, D-Wash., none Edward J Markey, D-Mass., $16,000 Jim Matheson, D-Utah, $47,750 Doris O Matsui, D-Calif., $7,500 Jerry McNerney, D-Calif., $3,000 Charles Melancon, D-La., $65,500 Chris Murphy, D-Conn., $6,800 Tim Murphy, R-Pa., $62,950 Sue Myrick, R-N.C., $11,500 Frank Pallone Jr., D-N.J., none Joe Pitts, R-Pa., $18,000 George Radanovich, R-Calif., $14,000 Mike Rogers, R-Mich., $20,400 Mike Ross, D-Ark., $76,950 Bobby L Rush, D-Ill., $1,000 John Sarbanes, D-Md., $3,300 Steve Scalise, R-La., $44,335 Jan Schakowsky, D-Ill., none John Shadegg, R-Ariz., $13,400 John M Shimkus, R-Ill., $34,000 Zachary T Space, D-Ohio, $9,600 Cliff Stearns, R-Fla., $1,000 Bart Stupak, D-Mich., $12,000 John Sullivan, R-Okla., $65,250 Betty Sue Sutton, D-Ohio, $6,000 Lee Terry, R-Neb., $30,350 Fred Upton, R-Mich., $22,000 Greg Walden, R-Ore., $31,200 Henry A Waxman, D-Calif., $6,000 Anthony D Weiner, D-N.Y., none Peter Welch, D-Vt., $10,000 Ed Whitfield, R-Ky., $20,500
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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Unreasonable Search and seizure? "Who is using the oil rig?" "Us" "Who is supposed to make sure regulations are followed so spills don't happen?" "Us" "Who screwed up?" "Us" "Well, investigation's done, pay up." The majority of the stock in the company is owned by the company, they like a lot of companies, bought back a huge amount of their stock when GW and the Reps owned Congress and gas prices were at all time highs. As for the other stock holders, tough. Sometimes you lose money when the company you invested in screws up.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
"Who is using the oil rig?" "well BP pay a US firm to drill and run the rig so day to day its not BP" "Who is supposed to make sure regulations are followed so spills don't happen?" "the US Govenment, the rig operators " "Who screwed up?" "Us - how about the safty device maker whose product failed all three backup systems, the rig operators, the Govenment inspectors" "Well, investigation's done, pay up." Yes BP is responsible as part owner of the well and admits that (more than the US partners have done) on one side we have BP being open and fair and on the other we have the US operator of the rig trying toget a court to limit thier fiscal liabilities to $27million (despite already get $400million+ paidout in insurance on the rig) its not that BP shouldnt pay its that they are getting the blame before it is known what exactly caused the spill, whilst the other companies involved are getting away scot free. a few points 1, BP had the same requipment fitted and had the same procedures in place regarding an incident of this type as did ALL the other Oil companies. 2, BP is a US based company (yes the HQ is in London but more BP employee's work in houston alone than work in the UK) and ownership is spilt fairely equally 40%Uk 39%US 3, the rig owners are responsible for 75% of all Gulf incidents eyt are regarded as the premiure deep water drillers 4, from prelimmary investigations (note thst tese are not yet complete) it would seem that BP have not done anything that is not regarded as SOP in gulf operations, even the alledged "short cuts" were accepted procedures withing the business (not saying its right just that its SOP) 5, compare this with Bhopal, BP have already paid out more in compensation than Union Carbine have and which would you say was the bigger diaster an oil spill and 11 lives or 15000 lives? I wouldnt like to be an american company abroad who has an accident, this has set a precident that is going to be well used against them (there is already talk of going back after the Exxon comapny for the Exxon valdez based on what is being done angaisnt BP (oh and piper alpha, the nigrian spill and a good few others where US companies used the law to avoid responsibility)
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start