I didn't realise Mexico could tell the US what to do...
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digital man wrote:
If you have them then no problem. If you don't then serves you right
I don't know how things are over in the UK, but we don't normally carry that kind of identification around here... A drivers' license, sure, but I don't know if that qualifies as proof under the new Arizona law.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ouch: good point. Here we have no need to carry any id at all (although try doing anything without some sort of id these days). Are the police able to use their computers to check the validity of people's stories regarding visa status? Presumably that would be an answer. I have a pal who was stopped for speeding in Vegas and was asked for his passport which the policeman took back to his car, presumably to check out in some way.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Ouch: good point. Here we have no need to carry any id at all (although try doing anything without some sort of id these days). Are the police able to use their computers to check the validity of people's stories regarding visa status? Presumably that would be an answer. I have a pal who was stopped for speeding in Vegas and was asked for his passport which the policeman took back to his car, presumably to check out in some way.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Your passport number is linked to your Alien # so they have to have some sort of knowledge.
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Ouch: good point. Here we have no need to carry any id at all (although try doing anything without some sort of id these days). Are the police able to use their computers to check the validity of people's stories regarding visa status? Presumably that would be an answer. I have a pal who was stopped for speeding in Vegas and was asked for his passport which the policeman took back to his car, presumably to check out in some way.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
digital man wrote:
Are the police able to use their computers to check the validity of people's stories regarding visa status?
Well, if you have your drivers' license, I know they can bring up your DMV records and any criminal record, but I don't know if they can check whether you're legal. Each state has its own rules governing drivers' licenses, so maybe Arizona can do that. On the other hand... Like you said, technically we don't have to carry ID at all. If you're driving, you need to carry a license, but not if you're walking or taking mass transit, or if you're just a passenger in the car. I guess Arizona is making that required, because otherwise there'll be a LOT of false arrests.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Mexico joins Arizona immigration lawsuit[^]. Looks like Arizona will have to secede from the union to protect itself... :-)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Mexico might have well just declared war on us. They are letting tens of millions of violent Mexican nationals in this country, with an outlaw mindset, and with the idea that the southern states belong to Mexico. Ontop of that our government is encouraging it, because the Mexicans want a communist revolution, and our government wants them to vote and fight against American citizens.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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digital man wrote:
If you have them then no problem. If you don't then serves you right
I don't know how things are over in the UK, but we don't normally carry that kind of identification around here... A drivers' license, sure, but I don't know if that qualifies as proof under the new Arizona law.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)An Arizona drivers license is sufficient and will end the inquiry on the spot. A drivers license/id card from any state that require proof of citizenship, residency or other legal right to be in the country to obtain is sufficient. Not all states have this requirement.
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An Arizona drivers license is sufficient and will end the inquiry on the spot. A drivers license/id card from any state that require proof of citizenship, residency or other legal right to be in the country to obtain is sufficient. Not all states have this requirement.
Good info... Just looked up the details[^], and it looks like Illinois, New Mexico, Utah, and Washington don't qualify (Their licenses don't prove citizenship)... Two of those are pretty close, geographically, to Arizona. So if you live in any of those states, and plan on going to/through Arizona, you better carry a passport...
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Mexico might have well just declared war on us. They are letting tens of millions of violent Mexican nationals in this country, with an outlaw mindset, and with the idea that the southern states belong to Mexico. Ontop of that our government is encouraging it, because the Mexicans want a communist revolution, and our government wants them to vote and fight against American citizens.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
isnt that exactly what the US did to get these states in the first place?
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
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Mexico might have well just declared war on us. They are letting tens of millions of violent Mexican nationals in this country, with an outlaw mindset, and with the idea that the southern states belong to Mexico. Ontop of that our government is encouraging it, because the Mexicans want a communist revolution, and our government wants them to vote and fight against American citizens.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
Please verify flaps Idiocy is leaking Get yearly checkup No one declared war Mexico is our ally You are full of crap
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
If they were wrong perhaps Arizona might have a point to argue. But harassing everyone that the cops assume is Mexican is going to cause issues, and anything less wouldn't qualify as enforcement of the law and could get the cops sued.
Distind wrote:
But harassing everyone that the cops assume is Mexican is going to cause issues, and anything less wouldn't qualify as enforcement of the law and could get the cops sued.
As I understand the law, the police officers can only ask for proof of legal status if someone has ALREADY been stopped for an offence and there is probable reason to suspect the person may not be in the United States legally. As a permanent alien resident, I make it a point to carry identification. Also, the state I live in requires proof of status before issueing a driver's license. If I am committing a traffic offence, I don't object to having my status checked... I am here legally. Tim
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As an immigrant myself, I carry my permanent resident card around with me all the time. I'm pretty sure that's required. It's actually those that are citizens that have a problem here if a drivers license isn't sufficient, because they won't have any identification that states they're a citizen.
You are right...you are required to carry your permanent resident card. And, yes, a driver's license would be proof that you are here legally. Just look at what you have to show to get a driver's license. Basically, you have to show that you're a US citizen, or here legally. In Arizona, the list is here: http://mvd.azdot.gov/mvd/formsandpub/viewPDF.asp?lngProductKey=1410&lngFormInfoKey=1410[^] There are a few things that you can use if you're not a US citizen, such as your Permanent Resident/Alien Card, Foreign Passport with US visa, a couple of documents from the US Citizenship and Immigration Services, proof that you're Native American, or here as a student. All of those prove that you're legally in the US. If you're illegally in the US, you can't get a driver's license...even in California, one of the easiest states to live in as an illegal. The California DMV requires you to provide "proof of legal residence". So, yeah, a driver's license would prove you're here legally.
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digital man wrote:
If you have them then no problem. If you don't then serves you right
I don't know how things are over in the UK, but we don't normally carry that kind of identification around here... A drivers' license, sure, but I don't know if that qualifies as proof under the new Arizona law.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)A driver's license is proof of legal residence. AFAIK, every state requires you to provide proof of legal residence in order to obtain a driver's license. That does include if you're here on a work visa, student visa, etc...but those people are here legally, so that still counts.
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Distind wrote:
But harassing everyone that the cops assume is Mexican is going to cause issues, and anything less wouldn't qualify as enforcement of the law and could get the cops sued.
As I understand the law, the police officers can only ask for proof of legal status if someone has ALREADY been stopped for an offence and there is probable reason to suspect the person may not be in the United States legally. As a permanent alien resident, I make it a point to carry identification. Also, the state I live in requires proof of status before issueing a driver's license. If I am committing a traffic offence, I don't object to having my status checked... I am here legally. Tim
Right, but Illinois, New Mexico, Utah, and Washington don't require proof of citizenship before they issue driver's licenses, and someone who's stopped for a non-driving offense (Jaywalking, for example), or someone who's just a passenger in a stopped car, won't necessarily have a license on them. So maybe immigrants are already obligated to carry ID (I don't know - I'm third-generation), but this could make things difficult for foreign-looking citizens.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
You are right...you are required to carry your permanent resident card. And, yes, a driver's license would be proof that you are here legally. Just look at what you have to show to get a driver's license. Basically, you have to show that you're a US citizen, or here legally. In Arizona, the list is here: http://mvd.azdot.gov/mvd/formsandpub/viewPDF.asp?lngProductKey=1410&lngFormInfoKey=1410[^] There are a few things that you can use if you're not a US citizen, such as your Permanent Resident/Alien Card, Foreign Passport with US visa, a couple of documents from the US Citizenship and Immigration Services, proof that you're Native American, or here as a student. All of those prove that you're legally in the US. If you're illegally in the US, you can't get a driver's license...even in California, one of the easiest states to live in as an illegal. The California DMV requires you to provide "proof of legal residence". So, yeah, a driver's license would prove you're here legally.
William Winner wrote:
And, yes, a driver's license would be proof that you are here legally.
Except Illinois, New Mexico, Utah, and Washington[^].
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Mexico might have well just declared war on us. They are letting tens of millions of violent Mexican nationals in this country, with an outlaw mindset, and with the idea that the southern states belong to Mexico. Ontop of that our government is encouraging it, because the Mexicans want a communist revolution, and our government wants them to vote and fight against American citizens.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
You, AS ALWAYS, have no idea and just opening your mouth to say something... just go back to your basement, and before you say it, yes I have kissed and rubbed Che's poster, have you done the same with Ron's Paul poster??
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
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Good info... Just looked up the details[^], and it looks like Illinois, New Mexico, Utah, and Washington don't qualify (Their licenses don't prove citizenship)... Two of those are pretty close, geographically, to Arizona. So if you live in any of those states, and plan on going to/through Arizona, you better carry a passport...
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)In Illinois, you have to provide something showing your SSN, which AFAIK can only be obtained if you're here legally. New Mexico and Washington are the same. Utah requires you to prove your identity and legal/lawful status and your SSN.
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Right, but Illinois, New Mexico, Utah, and Washington don't require proof of citizenship before they issue driver's licenses, and someone who's stopped for a non-driving offense (Jaywalking, for example), or someone who's just a passenger in a stopped car, won't necessarily have a license on them. So maybe immigrants are already obligated to carry ID (I don't know - I'm third-generation), but this could make things difficult for foreign-looking citizens.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Actually, Arizona doesn't require proof of citizenship either. You can get an Arizona driver's license if you're here on a work or student visa and a couple of other categories. The question isn't citizenship though, but whether you're in the country legally. You don't have to be a citizen to be in the country legally.
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Actually, Arizona doesn't require proof of citizenship either. You can get an Arizona driver's license if you're here on a work or student visa and a couple of other categories. The question isn't citizenship though, but whether you're in the country legally. You don't have to be a citizen to be in the country legally.
Sorry, should have been more specific... From the Wikipedia article[^] I've linked a few times in this thread (emphasis added):
According to the Motor Vehicle Division of the Arizona Department of Transportation's "Identification Requirements", the only states that "do not verify lawful presence in the US" are "Illinois, New Mexico, Utah, and Washington (Washington verifies only for credentials labeled as 'Enhanced')"
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
In Illinois, you have to provide something showing your SSN, which AFAIK can only be obtained if you're here legally. New Mexico and Washington are the same. Utah requires you to prove your identity and legal/lawful status and your SSN.
Well, according to the the reference[^] behind that part of the article, Arizona doesn't consider them adequate. All that matters is whether the cop who pulls you over is going to accept that license as proof.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Sorry, should have been more specific... From the Wikipedia article[^] I've linked a few times in this thread (emphasis added):
According to the Motor Vehicle Division of the Arizona Department of Transportation's "Identification Requirements", the only states that "do not verify lawful presence in the US" are "Illinois, New Mexico, Utah, and Washington (Washington verifies only for credentials labeled as 'Enhanced')"
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)yeah...well, that wikipedia article is incorrect. If says that the Arizona DOT says that, but the links it provides do not say that. I also am just telling you what each of the states themselves say. Check out these sites: Washingtong DOL[^] Using that list, you can't get a Washington Driver's license without being a legal resident. Illinois[^] Group C requires proof of SSN New Mexico[^] Under proof of indentification number, there are a couple of options and if you were able to get a federally regulated financial institution to write you a letter and had a Canada driver's license, you could get one without SSN. Utah[^] Note: it says everyone will be required to show legal/lawful presence. Anyone can edit wikipedia...just check the page now.
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Mexico joins Arizona immigration lawsuit[^]. Looks like Arizona will have to secede from the union to protect itself... :-)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
This is a problem that can't be explained in a very simple way... this is going to be a long post I'm mexican and I live in the US legally (H1B visa) and I totally support the law, why? many would ask... well, first, the mexican government has no right to say what's legal or illegal in the US, they can do it in Mexico, but not here, but why are they doing it? first, is because after oil income, the fees they charge for receiving money from the US is the second largest income the gov't has, so they don't want to lose that income. second, elections are coming very soon, so the current party in power wants to get as many votes as possible from the people that feel "offended" by this law, that are many, because that stupid feeling and nationalism that those states were once part of Mexico and they belong to us, that happened in the past, was it right or wrong doesn't matter, is something that can't be changed these days, so we, as mexicans (or they), need to get over it and move forward, it's like the british feel they have the right to receive taxes from the US because the US once was a british colony, that's just stupid. third, is because the mexican gov't uses this illegal immigration (and at some point supports it) to hide its own failures as a government, they mexican government hasn't been able to provide the opportunities to the citizens to get well paid jobs for example, do you know what's the minimum wage in Mexico? 4 USD/day, while in the US you get 5USD/hour (at least), in less than 1 week these people is making more than what they can make in Mexico in 1 month. Also, we need to understand the other side, the american side, americans are simply tired of the illegal immigration, it's not racism, everything is related to money, they're tired of paying, you have in Arizona around 400,000 illegals, that they work, but how many pay taxes? and if they pay taxes, how many steal identities (SSN, ID's etc) to get higher salaries? Illegals DEMAND education for their children, US citizens or not, well, education costs money, how do they expect to have some paying taxes (legal resident and citizens) to get schools working, while they're not paying them? The tuition cost for public schools in the US is somewhere around 6000/child/year, imagine an illegal that has 3 or 4 children, just the costs to educate those children all the way to high school is 72,000 each!!! now multiply that by 3, $216,000 USD for a family of 5 (mom, dad, 3 kids), now multiply that by lets say 800,000 children (2 for each illeg