I didn't realise Mexico could tell the US what to do...
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In Illinois, you have to provide something showing your SSN, which AFAIK can only be obtained if you're here legally. New Mexico and Washington are the same. Utah requires you to prove your identity and legal/lawful status and your SSN.
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A driver's license is proof of legal residence. AFAIK, every state requires you to provide proof of legal residence in order to obtain a driver's license. That does include if you're here on a work visa, student visa, etc...but those people are here legally, so that still counts.
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If I'm here on a work visa, do I get a SSN so I can pay taxes? If I do, it never expires, even when my visa does.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
Yes, you would get a SSN. So, if you were here legally and then stayed past your visa, there may be a couple of states you could get a license...though I would imagine most don't start out with work visas. There are loopholes in any system...
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But they are only here legally until the visa expires. Do drivers licenses expiration date get tied to the visa date?
Opacity, the new Transparency.
I have no idea...I would hope that it expires when their visa expires.
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I have no idea...I would hope that it expires when their visa expires.
Driver's licenses are valid until the day your Visa expires. In order to get an extension (like say you had applied for a work Visa after being here on a student Visa) you have to show documentation that indicates a hearing is being done. The new license is only valid until your hearing date and you need to go in with the documentation showing the decision in order to extend it further. Most states did this anyway, but Real ID has made most of these common sense moves mandatory.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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yeah...well, that wikipedia article is incorrect. If says that the Arizona DOT says that, but the links it provides do not say that. I also am just telling you what each of the states themselves say. Check out these sites: Washingtong DOL[^] Using that list, you can't get a Washington Driver's license without being a legal resident. Illinois[^] Group C requires proof of SSN New Mexico[^] Under proof of indentification number, there are a couple of options and if you were able to get a federally regulated financial institution to write you a letter and had a Canada driver's license, you could get one without SSN. Utah[^] Note: it says everyone will be required to show legal/lawful presence. Anyone can edit wikipedia...just check the page now.
Hence my other post[^] in this thread... Look at the document it links to (Part of what you took out of Wikipedia). Arizona doesn't consider licenses from those four states to be proof of lawful residence. Actually, the document (Application for an Arizona license) just says "per Arizona law", so for definite proof, we'd have to hunt down the text of the actual law it refers to... I don't care enough about this issue to do that :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Gonzoox wrote:
The tuition cost for public schools in the US is somewhere around 6000/child/year, imagine an illegal that has 3 or 4 children, just the costs to educate those children all the way to high school is 72,000 each!!! now multiply that by 3, $216,000 USD for a family of 5 (mom, dad, 3 kids), now multiply that by lets say 800,000 children (2 for each illegal in Arizona), a total of 57,600,000,000, 57.6 billion USD to educate them, while their parents pay ZERO taxes!!! and that is just Arizona. (NOTE: I don't have the actual numbers of how many children they have or are attending school)
When speaking about school costs, one should know how schools are funded. The vast majority of the funding of a school system is local taxes. Property taxes along with sales taxes do most of the work here. Illegals rent property. The owner pays taxes with the money paid by the renters. Sales taxes are done on any good bought at a store. They use local option taxes to fund projects, build new buildings, and pay for stuff the normal yearly budget can't handle. These are voted on. Property taxes are they major source of funding here though. The other part is from the state education fund and federal grants. This is paid by sales taxes, income taxes, and payroll taxes. Illegals pay very little in these areas. This much is true and the basis for this constant belief that illegals pay nothing, which is wrong. While you were saying they pay no taxes, the truth is they pay around 50-80% of the taxes others pay for the same system. Yes, they are not paying their fair share, but it isn't anywhere near as bad as this was made out to be. They are not a $57billion drain on Arizona. They are likely a LOT less. I'm not going to say the rest is right, wrong, or whatever, I am just pointing out that these numbers are repeated a lot and are wrong.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
Just before, remember that I stated I'm mexican OK, let me understand this, I make 100,000/year, I end up paying around 35,000 in income taxes, plus the 7.75% sales tax I need to pay, so actually they're taking around 42,000 out of me every year on taxes, plus property taxes, plus other things I need to pay to the government, if this illegal is earning the same, he's not paying the federal income taxes just for a start, so that means he's only paying 7,750 USD in taxes, I don't see where the 50% is... the 50% would be around 21K And when I said 56 billion I was making numbers like I said without knowing how many of the kids that go to school are from illegals, but here's another story, did you know that in a small town next to the border, little mexicans were crossing every day the border to study in american schools, not only one or two, more like 150 kids, and they and their parents live in Mexico, so if they pay taxes they don't do it to the US, why they feel they have the right to cross the border, abuse the american education system and get away with murder? 150 kids multiplied by 6 thousand and something is around 1 mill every year!!! who is paying that million?? Arizona residents!!! What I was trying to point out, is that the mexican government is acting stupid for trying this, they have more problems to care about in Mexico than trying to tell Arizona or the US how to do things, the immigration laws in Mexico are way worse than the american laws, mexican agents kill hundreds of illegal immigrants that enter the country from the south border, and they're trying to tell the US how bad and evil they are? when they're worse than here? if you can read spanish I can point you to articles about central americans getting killed by the mexican immigration police or worse And also, i was trying to point out, that if this is happening is because these immigrants where asking for it to happen, they made sure to fed up legal residents and americans for not doing things right, when have you heard the chinese gov't complaining? or the vietnamese? or the english? because when chinese get to the country try to learn english, try to do things right, start a business (usually food), what mexicans do? talk to me in spanish, pay me but I don't want to pay taxes, give my kids education, I want health care, well, that's not how things work in the US, in Mexico health care is for free, not here So as I say, they are just starting to harvest their own ignorance...
I want to die like my grandfat
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isnt that exactly what the US did to get these states in the first place?
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
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Just before, remember that I stated I'm mexican OK, let me understand this, I make 100,000/year, I end up paying around 35,000 in income taxes, plus the 7.75% sales tax I need to pay, so actually they're taking around 42,000 out of me every year on taxes, plus property taxes, plus other things I need to pay to the government, if this illegal is earning the same, he's not paying the federal income taxes just for a start, so that means he's only paying 7,750 USD in taxes, I don't see where the 50% is... the 50% would be around 21K And when I said 56 billion I was making numbers like I said without knowing how many of the kids that go to school are from illegals, but here's another story, did you know that in a small town next to the border, little mexicans were crossing every day the border to study in american schools, not only one or two, more like 150 kids, and they and their parents live in Mexico, so if they pay taxes they don't do it to the US, why they feel they have the right to cross the border, abuse the american education system and get away with murder? 150 kids multiplied by 6 thousand and something is around 1 mill every year!!! who is paying that million?? Arizona residents!!! What I was trying to point out, is that the mexican government is acting stupid for trying this, they have more problems to care about in Mexico than trying to tell Arizona or the US how to do things, the immigration laws in Mexico are way worse than the american laws, mexican agents kill hundreds of illegal immigrants that enter the country from the south border, and they're trying to tell the US how bad and evil they are? when they're worse than here? if you can read spanish I can point you to articles about central americans getting killed by the mexican immigration police or worse And also, i was trying to point out, that if this is happening is because these immigrants where asking for it to happen, they made sure to fed up legal residents and americans for not doing things right, when have you heard the chinese gov't complaining? or the vietnamese? or the english? because when chinese get to the country try to learn english, try to do things right, start a business (usually food), what mexicans do? talk to me in spanish, pay me but I don't want to pay taxes, give my kids education, I want health care, well, that's not how things work in the US, in Mexico health care is for free, not here So as I say, they are just starting to harvest their own ignorance...
I want to die like my grandfat
I am not arguing that you are wrong to be annoyed, I am arguing that your numbers are way overblown and you should know how funding works before using such numbers. Let's use your example and see how you show your numbers and how they would actually look. 1: Assuming both you and the illegal alien make 100K/yr. This assumes you pay income tax and they do not. This is a safe assumption. I can also give you a leg up and say payroll taxes are not being paid. 2: We will assume neither of you has any money left at the end of the year. 3: Education is pretty low in the grand scheme of things for federal funding. Something like 5% goes to schools. How do the numbers look? 1: You pay 35K in income taxes. 2: You pay property taxes on a place you can rent or buy. We will assume you spend roughly twice what the alien does due to being unable to use credit or something else to get a better place. They are still renting but at half your rate. 3: Anything not being spent on 1 or 2 is spent on goods. you are charged 7.75% as is he. You: Him: 35K income taxes= 1.75K $0 5K property taxes= 1K funding 2.5K property taxes(rent)= $500 funding 10K Payroll taxes = $500 $0 60K Local income tax at 4%= $2400 97.5K local income tax at 4% = 3900 $5650 $4400 If you two make the same amount, and spend all your money, the difference isn't that huge. I am assuming all your rent is property tax (which would be way off) and you spent all of it on goods that there is a tax on. This is an example of how I can make any set of numbers lie. This is why it is important to look at the reality of the situation. The reality is that the illegal is making a LOT less than 100K, and most of their money is going into the local economy. A significant portion of this is spent on things that aren't taxed at the same rate and they will not put in as much as you do. But it will not be the massively glaring difference you made. I worked for a school district. We had a large portion of transplants from a major city that were a "drain" on the system and some people wanted out. American citizens that were too poor for the tastes of some folks so they wanted them pushed into specific schools so those schools could have all the "problem kids" and the local kids could then get a better education. They said stuff like this about taxes
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I am not arguing that you are wrong to be annoyed, I am arguing that your numbers are way overblown and you should know how funding works before using such numbers. Let's use your example and see how you show your numbers and how they would actually look. 1: Assuming both you and the illegal alien make 100K/yr. This assumes you pay income tax and they do not. This is a safe assumption. I can also give you a leg up and say payroll taxes are not being paid. 2: We will assume neither of you has any money left at the end of the year. 3: Education is pretty low in the grand scheme of things for federal funding. Something like 5% goes to schools. How do the numbers look? 1: You pay 35K in income taxes. 2: You pay property taxes on a place you can rent or buy. We will assume you spend roughly twice what the alien does due to being unable to use credit or something else to get a better place. They are still renting but at half your rate. 3: Anything not being spent on 1 or 2 is spent on goods. you are charged 7.75% as is he. You: Him: 35K income taxes= 1.75K $0 5K property taxes= 1K funding 2.5K property taxes(rent)= $500 funding 10K Payroll taxes = $500 $0 60K Local income tax at 4%= $2400 97.5K local income tax at 4% = 3900 $5650 $4400 If you two make the same amount, and spend all your money, the difference isn't that huge. I am assuming all your rent is property tax (which would be way off) and you spent all of it on goods that there is a tax on. This is an example of how I can make any set of numbers lie. This is why it is important to look at the reality of the situation. The reality is that the illegal is making a LOT less than 100K, and most of their money is going into the local economy. A significant portion of this is spent on things that aren't taxed at the same rate and they will not put in as much as you do. But it will not be the massively glaring difference you made. I worked for a school district. We had a large portion of transplants from a major city that were a "drain" on the system and some people wanted out. American citizens that were too poor for the tastes of some folks so they wanted them pushed into specific schools so those schools could have all the "problem kids" and the local kids could then get a better education. They said stuff like this about taxes
Around here the illegals generally stay in very small apartments with many more people than the dwelling would normally support. So you have 2 major things going here, first, they are living in a much higher density than typical legal residents do (even poor legal residents) and second, the areas that they do live in are very poor and cater almost exclusively to illegals, thus, very low property tax is usually levied on these areas. There are pockets all around the city with old mobile homes and one room 'apartments' with 4-8 people living in them. As a side note, there are a few of these pockets around that combine to making up 80% of the police calls for the entire city. eighty freaking percent, that costs money too. It should also be noted that this particular city where this occurs is a well known 'sanctuary city'.
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I thought thought the early settlers bought some with beads and the rest with polio blankets...
thrakazog wrote:
I thought thought the early settlers bought some with beads and the rest with polio blankets...
No. That was the East Coast!! We stole the Left Coast from the Spaniards and Mexicans. After they stole it from the Indians. :-D :-D
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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I am not arguing that you are wrong to be annoyed, I am arguing that your numbers are way overblown and you should know how funding works before using such numbers. Let's use your example and see how you show your numbers and how they would actually look. 1: Assuming both you and the illegal alien make 100K/yr. This assumes you pay income tax and they do not. This is a safe assumption. I can also give you a leg up and say payroll taxes are not being paid. 2: We will assume neither of you has any money left at the end of the year. 3: Education is pretty low in the grand scheme of things for federal funding. Something like 5% goes to schools. How do the numbers look? 1: You pay 35K in income taxes. 2: You pay property taxes on a place you can rent or buy. We will assume you spend roughly twice what the alien does due to being unable to use credit or something else to get a better place. They are still renting but at half your rate. 3: Anything not being spent on 1 or 2 is spent on goods. you are charged 7.75% as is he. You: Him: 35K income taxes= 1.75K $0 5K property taxes= 1K funding 2.5K property taxes(rent)= $500 funding 10K Payroll taxes = $500 $0 60K Local income tax at 4%= $2400 97.5K local income tax at 4% = 3900 $5650 $4400 If you two make the same amount, and spend all your money, the difference isn't that huge. I am assuming all your rent is property tax (which would be way off) and you spent all of it on goods that there is a tax on. This is an example of how I can make any set of numbers lie. This is why it is important to look at the reality of the situation. The reality is that the illegal is making a LOT less than 100K, and most of their money is going into the local economy. A significant portion of this is spent on things that aren't taxed at the same rate and they will not put in as much as you do. But it will not be the massively glaring difference you made. I worked for a school district. We had a large portion of transplants from a major city that were a "drain" on the system and some people wanted out. American citizens that were too poor for the tastes of some folks so they wanted them pushed into specific schools so those schools could have all the "problem kids" and the local kids could then get a better education. They said stuff like this about taxes
ragnaroknrol wrote:
You: Him: 35K income taxes= 1.75K $0 5K property taxes= 1K funding 2.5K property taxes(rent)= $500 funding 10K Payroll taxes = $500 $0 60K Local income tax at 4%= $2400 97.5K local income tax at 4% = 3900 $5650 $4400
- why do you think they pay local income tax? Do you mean sales tax? 2) how does $35k = $1.75k on income tax? 3) I see it as 40.65 vs 4.4, only 11%
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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I am not arguing that you are wrong to be annoyed, I am arguing that your numbers are way overblown and you should know how funding works before using such numbers. Let's use your example and see how you show your numbers and how they would actually look. 1: Assuming both you and the illegal alien make 100K/yr. This assumes you pay income tax and they do not. This is a safe assumption. I can also give you a leg up and say payroll taxes are not being paid. 2: We will assume neither of you has any money left at the end of the year. 3: Education is pretty low in the grand scheme of things for federal funding. Something like 5% goes to schools. How do the numbers look? 1: You pay 35K in income taxes. 2: You pay property taxes on a place you can rent or buy. We will assume you spend roughly twice what the alien does due to being unable to use credit or something else to get a better place. They are still renting but at half your rate. 3: Anything not being spent on 1 or 2 is spent on goods. you are charged 7.75% as is he. You: Him: 35K income taxes= 1.75K $0 5K property taxes= 1K funding 2.5K property taxes(rent)= $500 funding 10K Payroll taxes = $500 $0 60K Local income tax at 4%= $2400 97.5K local income tax at 4% = 3900 $5650 $4400 If you two make the same amount, and spend all your money, the difference isn't that huge. I am assuming all your rent is property tax (which would be way off) and you spent all of it on goods that there is a tax on. This is an example of how I can make any set of numbers lie. This is why it is important to look at the reality of the situation. The reality is that the illegal is making a LOT less than 100K, and most of their money is going into the local economy. A significant portion of this is spent on things that aren't taxed at the same rate and they will not put in as much as you do. But it will not be the massively glaring difference you made. I worked for a school district. We had a large portion of transplants from a major city that were a "drain" on the system and some people wanted out. American citizens that were too poor for the tastes of some folks so they wanted them pushed into specific schools so those schools could have all the "problem kids" and the local kids could then get a better education. They said stuff like this about taxes
Thank you, I'm not trying to enter into an argument neither, but I hope I'm explaining myself. Yes, they make less than I make and still they're not paying their share but demand for the whole benefits, even if they had the chance to avoid paying the sales tax, trust me, they would be not paying it. I can't find a way to support them, even though I'm mexican, they're doing things wrong, they're abusing of a system that has been very noble to them, and now they're demanding more and more. It's stupid to see the mexican government getting involved in this, when the mexican law says that anyone in the country illegaly is subject to 3 years in prison and a fine of xxxxx dollars, it's shameful to see the mexican government trying to teach the US how to treat immigrants, when down there the immigration officers kill central or south americans, when gangs rape women and the crime never gets solved by the authorities, I know the government is supposed to take care of its citizens, but in this case, the government needs to be away, they have worst things to fix there than here.
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
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You, AS ALWAYS, have no idea and just opening your mouth to say something... just go back to your basement, and before you say it, yes I have kissed and rubbed Che's poster, have you done the same with Ron's Paul poster??
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
Gonzoox wrote:
yes I have kissed and rubbed Che's poster
That's gross. On so many levels.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit