Why isn't this a good design?
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Someone must have thought of this before, but apparently rejected the idea. "The" electric car problem is the insane recharge time. So, don't recharge. Swap batteries, and let the ones you're not using recharge. And build "swap stations" around the country where you pay to swap in new batteries. And have them swapped automatically - push them in on one end, the old ones come out at the other. But they're not doing this, so something must be wrong with the idea.
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Someone must have thought of this before, but apparently rejected the idea. "The" electric car problem is the insane recharge time. So, don't recharge. Swap batteries, and let the ones you're not using recharge. And build "swap stations" around the country where you pay to swap in new batteries. And have them swapped automatically - push them in on one end, the old ones come out at the other. But they're not doing this, so something must be wrong with the idea.
a few issues 1, batteries are very expensive so who pays for the initial stock? 2, batteries lose the ability to hold charge and release charge how do you compensate? 3, batteries are heavy but otherwise a good idea
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
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Someone must have thought of this before, but apparently rejected the idea. "The" electric car problem is the insane recharge time. So, don't recharge. Swap batteries, and let the ones you're not using recharge. And build "swap stations" around the country where you pay to swap in new batteries. And have them swapped automatically - push them in on one end, the old ones come out at the other. But they're not doing this, so something must be wrong with the idea.
I can think of several reasons for that Can you imagine 50 different car manufacturers agreeing on the design of the battery? The charging stations would need to have quite a lot of batteries lying around to be charged. Considering the price of a battery suitable for a car, there wouldn't be to many companies interested in the investment. They would also want return on investment, what would the price for a battery exchange be? Compare that with the actual cost of charging the car at home. A battery that has enough energy for driving 50 km or 30 miles weighs about 200 kg or 450 pounds Think of the staff at a tank station for a minute. Can you imagine the extra weight of the battery to make it foolproof enough and not explode at the first drop. Think of the investments in the national powergrid necessary to charge all these batteries. I can probably triple the list but it's time for coffee now.
"When did ignorance become a point of view" - Dilbert
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Someone must have thought of this before, but apparently rejected the idea. "The" electric car problem is the insane recharge time. So, don't recharge. Swap batteries, and let the ones you're not using recharge. And build "swap stations" around the country where you pay to swap in new batteries. And have them swapped automatically - push them in on one end, the old ones come out at the other. But they're not doing this, so something must be wrong with the idea.
Here: Electric car battery exchange station[^] and here: Better Place Unveils an Electric Car Battery Swap Station[^] and here: Electric Car Battery Swapping Gains Credence[^] and there are more if you care to look.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Someone must have thought of this before, but apparently rejected the idea. "The" electric car problem is the insane recharge time. So, don't recharge. Swap batteries, and let the ones you're not using recharge. And build "swap stations" around the country where you pay to swap in new batteries. And have them swapped automatically - push them in on one end, the old ones come out at the other. But they're not doing this, so something must be wrong with the idea.
I remember this idea doing the rounds some months/years ago, but I don't remember the details... But hey, I'm good at finding problems, so here are a few off the top of my head... 1) How can you be sure that the battery you're receiving at the swap station is as good as the one you gave them? Could be undercharged, lower capacity, or just plain damaged. 2) Batteries are HEAVY, and those powering an electric car would be heavier still. There would probably have to be some kind of mechanical system for inserting the battery into the car, which adds more of a maintenance cost at the swap stations. 3) When battery life and vehicle weight are such important factors in development and improvement of electric vehicles, how difficult will it be to get manufacturers to standardize? Laptops have had this problem for a long time, and manufacturers are just now trying to develop a standard. Keep in mind that vehicle battery technology is still improving, so the standard would have to leave room for future advancements. Wouldn't want to accidentally replace a 500W battery with an 800W one. 4) Constantly being removed and reinserted, and all of the lugging around in between, would probably decrease battery life, and by that I mean overall life, not output per charge. They would only last, say, a year or two instead of four or five... That increases the cost of electricity (Swap stations would have to amortize this loss with higher swap costs), and amplifies the already-touchy issue of battery disposal/recycling (Lots of toxic chemicals in there). It's a good thought, and maybe these problems can be solved... I dunno... I'm better with problems than solutions :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Someone must have thought of this before, but apparently rejected the idea. "The" electric car problem is the insane recharge time. So, don't recharge. Swap batteries, and let the ones you're not using recharge. And build "swap stations" around the country where you pay to swap in new batteries. And have them swapped automatically - push them in on one end, the old ones come out at the other. But they're not doing this, so something must be wrong with the idea.
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a few issues 1, batteries are very expensive so who pays for the initial stock? 2, batteries lose the ability to hold charge and release charge how do you compensate? 3, batteries are heavy but otherwise a good idea
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
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I remember this idea doing the rounds some months/years ago, but I don't remember the details... But hey, I'm good at finding problems, so here are a few off the top of my head... 1) How can you be sure that the battery you're receiving at the swap station is as good as the one you gave them? Could be undercharged, lower capacity, or just plain damaged. 2) Batteries are HEAVY, and those powering an electric car would be heavier still. There would probably have to be some kind of mechanical system for inserting the battery into the car, which adds more of a maintenance cost at the swap stations. 3) When battery life and vehicle weight are such important factors in development and improvement of electric vehicles, how difficult will it be to get manufacturers to standardize? Laptops have had this problem for a long time, and manufacturers are just now trying to develop a standard. Keep in mind that vehicle battery technology is still improving, so the standard would have to leave room for future advancements. Wouldn't want to accidentally replace a 500W battery with an 800W one. 4) Constantly being removed and reinserted, and all of the lugging around in between, would probably decrease battery life, and by that I mean overall life, not output per charge. They would only last, say, a year or two instead of four or five... That increases the cost of electricity (Swap stations would have to amortize this loss with higher swap costs), and amplifies the already-touchy issue of battery disposal/recycling (Lots of toxic chemicals in there). It's a good thought, and maybe these problems can be solved... I dunno... I'm better with problems than solutions :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Some good problems here, 1) How can you be sure of the quality of the gas you're tanking these days? Same problem, no? You'll just have to take their word for it, and hopefully they will be afraid of bad press.. 2) Very true, nothing to do about that.. 3) Oh well, use govt pressure, create a standardization committee, manufacturers will be pissed but who cares :) 4) There is that, and that would increase the price. But unlike fossil fuels, electricity doesn't have to be physically transported to the swapping stations, so that would decrease the cost. Probably doesn't balance out, but still.. + with the sahara solar project, the cost of electricity should drop. They'll have to do Something though, current pure electric cars are not even usable except as a toy.
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Here: Electric car battery exchange station[^] and here: Better Place Unveils an Electric Car Battery Swap Station[^] and here: Electric Car Battery Swapping Gains Credence[^] and there are more if you care to look.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Someone must have thought of this before, but apparently rejected the idea. "The" electric car problem is the insane recharge time. So, don't recharge. Swap batteries, and let the ones you're not using recharge. And build "swap stations" around the country where you pay to swap in new batteries. And have them swapped automatically - push them in on one end, the old ones come out at the other. But they're not doing this, so something must be wrong with the idea.
Electrical outlets outside the buildings, parking lots, garages etc. would be a more effective solution IMO. The slap station could be in use only if you take a long trip. If memory serves there is such outlets build-in in the walls of residential buildings in Finland. They are used to worm the car’s interior and the engine in the mornings when the outside temperature is about -30 C.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Electrical outlets outside the buildings, parking lots, garages etc. would be a more effective solution IMO. The slap station could be in use only if you take a long trip. If memory serves there is such outlets build-in in the walls of residential buildings in Finland. They are used to worm the car’s interior and the engine in the mornings when the outside temperature is about -30 C.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Some good problems here, 1) How can you be sure of the quality of the gas you're tanking these days? Same problem, no? You'll just have to take their word for it, and hopefully they will be afraid of bad press.. 2) Very true, nothing to do about that.. 3) Oh well, use govt pressure, create a standardization committee, manufacturers will be pissed but who cares :) 4) There is that, and that would increase the price. But unlike fossil fuels, electricity doesn't have to be physically transported to the swapping stations, so that would decrease the cost. Probably doesn't balance out, but still.. + with the sahara solar project, the cost of electricity should drop. They'll have to do Something though, current pure electric cars are not even usable except as a toy.
harold aptroot wrote:
- How can you be sure of the quality of the gas you're tanking these days? Same problem, no? You'll just have to take their word for it, and hopefully they will be afraid of bad press..
True, but I assumed there was some kind of inspection process... Of course, a similar process could be applied to swap stations.
harold aptroot wrote:
- Oh well, use govt pressure, create a standardization committee, manufacturers will be pissed but who cares
Heh, like the government can get anything done :)
harold aptroot wrote:
They'll have to do Something though, current pure electric cars are not even usable except as a toy.
Not entirely true... How far do most people drive in a typical day? The Tesla Roadster, admittedly a top-end electric, has a 245-mile range[^]. That's just the first all-electric name that came to mind (Plus, it's really cool :) ), but if they can do it, so can the other manufacturers. It's long distance that gives electric cars problems... But since that's a relatively-small percentage of use, maybe we should just keep that as gas for now. I don't know which cars are on the market that do it this way, but I remember reading about hybrids that would operate 100% electric until the battery runs low (Assuming it isn't recharged), then start up a small, optimized gas engine to recharge the battery. So basically, you get the first 100 miles (Or whatever the number) as full-electric, but you can still use gasoline and drive long-distance. Plus, the gas engine is basically just a generator, so it's much more efficient than it would be if it was running the wheels directly (Small size, runs at optimum speed, etc).
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Electrical outlets outside the buildings, parking lots, garages etc. would be a more effective solution IMO. The slap station could be in use only if you take a long trip. If memory serves there is such outlets build-in in the walls of residential buildings in Finland. They are used to worm the car’s interior and the engine in the mornings when the outside temperature is about -30 C.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
If memory serves there is such outlets build-in in the walls of residential buildings in Finland. They are used to worm the car’s interior and the engine in the mornings when the outside temperature is about -30 C.
I have a friend in Anchorage (Alaska)... They have the same things up there, in outdoor parking spaces and unheated garages. It's not for the interior, though (I think)... Just keeps the engine block from freezing.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
harold aptroot wrote:
- How can you be sure of the quality of the gas you're tanking these days? Same problem, no? You'll just have to take their word for it, and hopefully they will be afraid of bad press..
True, but I assumed there was some kind of inspection process... Of course, a similar process could be applied to swap stations.
harold aptroot wrote:
- Oh well, use govt pressure, create a standardization committee, manufacturers will be pissed but who cares
Heh, like the government can get anything done :)
harold aptroot wrote:
They'll have to do Something though, current pure electric cars are not even usable except as a toy.
Not entirely true... How far do most people drive in a typical day? The Tesla Roadster, admittedly a top-end electric, has a 245-mile range[^]. That's just the first all-electric name that came to mind (Plus, it's really cool :) ), but if they can do it, so can the other manufacturers. It's long distance that gives electric cars problems... But since that's a relatively-small percentage of use, maybe we should just keep that as gas for now. I don't know which cars are on the market that do it this way, but I remember reading about hybrids that would operate 100% electric until the battery runs low (Assuming it isn't recharged), then start up a small, optimized gas engine to recharge the battery. So basically, you get the first 100 miles (Or whatever the number) as full-electric, but you can still use gasoline and drive long-distance. Plus, the gas engine is basically just a generator, so it's much more efficient than it would be if it was running the wheels directly (Small size, runs at optimum speed, etc).
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)There are exceptions to every rule :) 245 miles is about 400Km, it sounds like a lot but if I'd go on vacation to my favorite place in Germany I wouldn't even make it all the way there, and the 4 hour recharge time is about as long as it takes to drive those 400Km. If you're just going to your work and back every day I guess that would work - but is shit is €84k dude :laugh: It'll be a while before the affordable models are on this level.. Hybrid would work.
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That's nice, but they're all failing, otherwise those swapping stations would actually exist by now and they don't
You asked if someone had thought about it before - they had. In any case I mostly agree that it is not a viable proposition for at least the reasons already mentioned in other posts.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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You asked if someone had thought about it before - they had. In any case I mostly agree that it is not a viable proposition for at least the reasons already mentioned in other posts.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Not really, I asked why they had rejected the idea, since they must have thought about it before
Your posts begins: Someone must have thought of this before... Perhaps old age and a low battery are causing you to forget what you just said. :-)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Your posts begins: Someone must have thought of this before... Perhaps old age and a low battery are causing you to forget what you just said. :-)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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There are exceptions to every rule :) 245 miles is about 400Km, it sounds like a lot but if I'd go on vacation to my favorite place in Germany I wouldn't even make it all the way there, and the 4 hour recharge time is about as long as it takes to drive those 400Km. If you're just going to your work and back every day I guess that would work - but is shit is €84k dude :laugh: It'll be a while before the affordable models are on this level.. Hybrid would work.
We're getting there[^].
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Being as I am reasonably literate I was able to read the title of your post and, subsequently the body text thereof, as: "Someone must have thought of this before, but apparently rejected the idea. "The" electric car problem is the insane recharge time. So, don't recharge. Swap batteries, and let the ones you're not using recharge. And build "swap stations" around the country where you pay to swap in new batteries. And have them swapped automatically - push them in on one end, the old ones come out at the other. But they're not doing this, so something must be wrong with the idea." I responded to be helpful with links to sites that had more information on this idea; specifically to the first part of the first sentence, to wit: "Someone must have thought of this before". They have, hence the links. The fact that they may or may not have rejected the ideas, for whatever reasons, are not germane to my post. Jeez: you can't help some people (and I wish I hadn't bothered - if you were standing in front of me I'd tell you were to stick yourself and, yes, I am annoyed with you for no real reason that I can currently think of other than you are being bloody minded).
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me