Oddities of a Microsoft Natural Keyboard
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Roger Wright wrote: Buy a new keyboard, Paul! That dimly lit Caps Lock light indicates serious problems Sorry to bring into question your omnipotence, but is the above from past experience or are you just guessing? :) Roger Wright wrote: but it hardly seems worth the effort for the tiny amount of money you'll save. Well this keyboard costs about R800 here, quite a fair chunk of money (three good meals for two for instance.) I am going to give it one more thorough, thorough clean. If that does not help then I am going to fork out for this :-D
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul WatsonPaul Watson wrote: Sorry to bring into question your omnipotence, but is the above from past experience or are you just guessing? LOL!!! Both. A dimly lit LED indicates a flow of current where it shouldn't be (in the OFF condition), or an intermittent current (fluctuating at a high rate) that should be DC when it's on. Since this occurs when the Caps Lock is off, there is a current reaching the LED from somewhere. It's not quite a short to ground, else the LED would be bright, or it is a short to the keyboard clock signal which has only a 50% duty cycle. Either condition can be caused by dirt, especially if the humidity is high where you live. If it's the clock that's leaking through to the LED, it could lead to a bigger problem, as most clock circuits are not designed to sink the 20 mA required by a LED. Such an excessive load can damage the clock driver. Depending on the circuitry used to hold the state of the Caps Lock, it might also be a short between the output and input of the flip-flop. Feedback from the output of the circuit to the SET input can cause the circuit to toggle on its own (a crude multivibrator). If this is a CMOS circuit, only a few µA need be present to cause a state change. A graphite pencil trace is sufficient to cause this effect. Since most keyboards I've seen are controlled by a single ASIC this situation might not be fixed by cleaning, as it may be an internal failure of the chip. Check for dust or other foreign matter around the pins on the chip, though, as it might be a bridge across two adjacent pins that's causing the trouble. The LED driver circuit itself may also have failed. These are typically CMOS open drain circuits which fail with a drain-source short. The failure won't necessarily be a low resistance short, which might explain the dim illumination. Again, it's not a user servicable condition if this is the cause. Sorry to hear that they're so expensive there. Keyboards here are available for $5, though the MS ones are generally priced much higher (~$50). Take the bugger apart and throw the pieces in the dishwasher - what have you got to lose? I don't recommend the HOT setting, and skip the dry cycle "When in danger, fear, or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!" - Lorelei and Lapis Lazuli Long
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Paul Watson wrote: Sorry to bring into question your omnipotence, but is the above from past experience or are you just guessing? LOL!!! Both. A dimly lit LED indicates a flow of current where it shouldn't be (in the OFF condition), or an intermittent current (fluctuating at a high rate) that should be DC when it's on. Since this occurs when the Caps Lock is off, there is a current reaching the LED from somewhere. It's not quite a short to ground, else the LED would be bright, or it is a short to the keyboard clock signal which has only a 50% duty cycle. Either condition can be caused by dirt, especially if the humidity is high where you live. If it's the clock that's leaking through to the LED, it could lead to a bigger problem, as most clock circuits are not designed to sink the 20 mA required by a LED. Such an excessive load can damage the clock driver. Depending on the circuitry used to hold the state of the Caps Lock, it might also be a short between the output and input of the flip-flop. Feedback from the output of the circuit to the SET input can cause the circuit to toggle on its own (a crude multivibrator). If this is a CMOS circuit, only a few µA need be present to cause a state change. A graphite pencil trace is sufficient to cause this effect. Since most keyboards I've seen are controlled by a single ASIC this situation might not be fixed by cleaning, as it may be an internal failure of the chip. Check for dust or other foreign matter around the pins on the chip, though, as it might be a bridge across two adjacent pins that's causing the trouble. The LED driver circuit itself may also have failed. These are typically CMOS open drain circuits which fail with a drain-source short. The failure won't necessarily be a low resistance short, which might explain the dim illumination. Again, it's not a user servicable condition if this is the cause. Sorry to hear that they're so expensive there. Keyboards here are available for $5, though the MS ones are generally priced much higher (~$50). Take the bugger apart and throw the pieces in the dishwasher - what have you got to lose? I don't recommend the HOT setting, and skip the dry cycle "When in danger, fear, or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!" - Lorelei and Lapis Lazuli Long
Roger Wright wrote: Both. Crumbs. The only part of that I understood was "(a crude multivibrator)" :rolleyes: Thanks for all the info... into the dishwasher it goes then :-D
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul Watson -
Paul Watson wrote: They rock. They are brilliant. They make me look cool. They fuck up the positioning of the function and editing keys! Which took me far too long to learn to find by position and touch already! And which i'm not going to learn again until the day every single keyboard in sight has moved them! I will concede i'm not an ergonomics expert, and that splitting the keyboard down the center and twisting it *might* be a good idea. But Mr Ergo Guy should have his crack pipe shoved up his ass for the mess he made of the function keys... X| Shog9 ------
to the revelations of fresh faced youth no one will come to save you so speak your peace in the murmurs drawn but youth is wasted on the young - Smashing Pumpkins, Thru the Eyes of Ruby
Shog9 wrote: They f*** up the positioning of the function and editing keys! I assume you mean, by editing keys, the Insert, Home, End, Page Down etc. keys? If so then I agree, the new placement is terminally stupid. Especially putting Delete to the left of Insert!!! That has cause some fun situations. But stil, I have become used to the new positions :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul Watson -
What! :wtf: You have a cordless dual-optical mouse that doesn't fetch your :beer: for you? What is this world coming to? ;P
Deploying a web application without understanding security is roughly equivalent to driving a car without seatbelts - down a slippery road, over a monstrous chasm, with no brakes, and the throttle jammed on full.
Hacking Exposed - Web Applications. Joel Scambray & Mike Shema
Megan Forbes wrote: You have a cordless dual-optical mouse that doesn't fetch your for you? It was extra. What I saved I promptly spent on beer. ;P So it all worked out. :-D That's why I ramble so much. If you're short and quotable, there's a much greater danger of ending up in a sig. [Christopher Duncan on how to prevent yourself from ending up in a sig]
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David Wulff wrote: rather than one built for people with three hands and an eye in their chin. Natural? When I had one I kept hitting my elbows on the edge of my desk! And this coming from a man who has a gay, bondage bear* on his desk.. Hmmm.. ;P Actually, my good man, I already use, and love, the Natural keyboards. They rock. They are brilliant. They make me look cool. I am better than normal keyboard users. Muwaahahahahaha. 1miiiiillliiiooonn ddoollaarrsss! And I type better with them :) Thanks for the concern and care though * BTW how do you differentiate between a gay bondage bear and a straight bondage bear?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul WatsonPaul Watson wrote: how do you differentiate between a gay bondage bear and a straight bondage bear? Well his name is Randy, he is naked apart from some *really* tight PVC underwear (which very clearly reveals his anatomy), a sailors cap, he has his ear pierced, a hairy chest, and both hands are firmly clasping his own buttocks. Could you get any clearer a stereotype? :laugh:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea" - Martin Marvinski
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Atlantys wrote: Well, I guess I need to show you up there, and brag about my Logitech Ahh you were going well until you got to the Logitech bit. You could have said "Logitech cordless, dual-optical, beer fetching, food preparing USB mouse" and I still would have got stuck on the Logitech bit. If it ain't MS it ain't good... ;P (at least in the mouse and keyboard department.) p.s. Does your mouse use Bluetooth or 1950's era radio waves? ;P
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul WatsonPaul Watson wrote: p.s. Does your mouse use Bluetooth or 1950's era radio waves? I think there's a dis in there somewhere, but I'm not sure. ;P I've had NO problems with it at all. It fits comfortably into my hand, the batteries have a nice life span, the range is good, the mouse controls are easy. My friend has one of the MS IntelliMouse mice[^]. Damn, that was a piece of shit (this is the Soapbox, eh? ;P ) And no thumb button (that is truly a GODLY feature). It doesn't fit comfortably at all. <shudder/> Anyways, you can stick with your MS mouse[^], and I'll enjoy my non-beer-fetching Logitech mouse[^]. I do have an MS keyboard though. :-D That's why I ramble so much. If you're short and quotable, there's a much greater danger of ending up in a sig. [Christopher Duncan on how to prevent yourself from ending up in a sig]
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Paul Watson wrote: Boast away, I have one too and they rock! They sure do, the bottom of mine is not all red plastic like yours, just a bit at the back to tell you it's alive, and obviously the functional bit in the middle. Not sure which is better, but I know I will be trying to secure one for work now :) Paul Watson wrote: improved my typing (though not my spellink) :laugh:
Deploying a web application without understanding security is roughly equivalent to driving a car without seatbelts - down a slippery road, over a monstrous chasm, with no brakes, and the throttle jammed on full.
Hacking Exposed - Web Applications. Joel Scambray & Mike Shema
Megan Forbes wrote: but I know I will be trying to secure one for work now I know what you mean: I have this beautiful mouse at home, and then I come to work where I have this utter piece of crap. :mad: Doesn't even have a scroll whell! :wtf: Maybe I shouldn't have given my old wheel mouse to my dad. :( That's why I ramble so much. If you're short and quotable, there's a much greater danger of ending up in a sig. [Christopher Duncan on how to prevent yourself from ending up in a sig]
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Paul Watson wrote: p.s. Does your mouse use Bluetooth or 1950's era radio waves? I think there's a dis in there somewhere, but I'm not sure. ;P I've had NO problems with it at all. It fits comfortably into my hand, the batteries have a nice life span, the range is good, the mouse controls are easy. My friend has one of the MS IntelliMouse mice[^]. Damn, that was a piece of shit (this is the Soapbox, eh? ;P ) And no thumb button (that is truly a GODLY feature). It doesn't fit comfortably at all. <shudder/> Anyways, you can stick with your MS mouse[^], and I'll enjoy my non-beer-fetching Logitech mouse[^]. I do have an MS keyboard though. :-D That's why I ramble so much. If you're short and quotable, there's a much greater danger of ending up in a sig. [Christopher Duncan on how to prevent yourself from ending up in a sig]
Atlantys wrote: I think there's a dis in there somewhere, but I'm not sure Dis or no dis (ok, ok, it was a dis so sue me! :-D ) I thought it was a pretty ironic statement, seeing as BlueTooth uses radio waves and all... :rolleyes: Atlantys wrote: My friend has one of the MS IntelliMouse mice[^]. Damn, that was a piece of sh*t (this is the Soapbox, eh? ) And no thumb button (that is truly a GODLY feature). It doesn't fit comfortably at all. Well I have this intellimouse and it has the two thumb buttons. As you say, GODLY buttons (at least once you figure them out. I used to hate them.) Atlantys wrote: It doesn't fit comfortably at all. Which is why choice is so grand. The intellimouse fits my hand perfectly, but I find LogiTech mice to be slightly oddly shaped for my hands. Atlantys wrote: Anyways, you can stick with your MS mouse[^], and I'll enjoy my non-beer-fetching Logitech mouse[^]. Amen *hands you a beer, damned mouse keeps dropping them*
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul Watson -
Atlantys wrote: I think there's a dis in there somewhere, but I'm not sure Dis or no dis (ok, ok, it was a dis so sue me! :-D ) I thought it was a pretty ironic statement, seeing as BlueTooth uses radio waves and all... :rolleyes: Atlantys wrote: My friend has one of the MS IntelliMouse mice[^]. Damn, that was a piece of sh*t (this is the Soapbox, eh? ) And no thumb button (that is truly a GODLY feature). It doesn't fit comfortably at all. Well I have this intellimouse and it has the two thumb buttons. As you say, GODLY buttons (at least once you figure them out. I used to hate them.) Atlantys wrote: It doesn't fit comfortably at all. Which is why choice is so grand. The intellimouse fits my hand perfectly, but I find LogiTech mice to be slightly oddly shaped for my hands. Atlantys wrote: Anyways, you can stick with your MS mouse[^], and I'll enjoy my non-beer-fetching Logitech mouse[^]. Amen *hands you a beer, damned mouse keeps dropping them*
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul WatsonPaul Watson wrote: Which is why choice is so grand. Yes. I'm traditionally a Logitech user; MS mice have traditionally been either plain, or physically painful for me to use (that "hump" mouse they put out when on their ergo kick - god, what a joke... my wrists still shudder with the memory). But i must say, the IntelliMouse Optical has me impressed. First, it's symmetrical. Second, it fits my palm without putting unnecessary pressure on my finger tendons. Third, it looks cool. I'm even thinking of replacing my venerable Logitech at home...! Shog9 ------
to the revelations of fresh faced youth no one will come to save you so speak your peace in the murmurs drawn but youth is wasted on the young - Smashing Pumpkins, Thru the Eyes of Ruby
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Paul Watson wrote: Which is why choice is so grand. Yes. I'm traditionally a Logitech user; MS mice have traditionally been either plain, or physically painful for me to use (that "hump" mouse they put out when on their ergo kick - god, what a joke... my wrists still shudder with the memory). But i must say, the IntelliMouse Optical has me impressed. First, it's symmetrical. Second, it fits my palm without putting unnecessary pressure on my finger tendons. Third, it looks cool. I'm even thinking of replacing my venerable Logitech at home...! Shog9 ------
to the revelations of fresh faced youth no one will come to save you so speak your peace in the murmurs drawn but youth is wasted on the young - Smashing Pumpkins, Thru the Eyes of Ruby
Shog9 wrote: it's symmetrical That's one of the worst features about the Logitech I have: it's only for right-handed people. Granted, because it's designed for the right hand, it will (or should!) fit better. However, I pity all those left-handers out there or would have to special order (does Logitech make left-handed mice?) or learn "to deal with it." That's why I ramble so much. If you're short and quotable, there's a much greater danger of ending up in a sig. [Christopher Duncan on how to prevent yourself from ending up in a sig]