TEA party compared to 47% pay no fed income taxes
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
end price
Within the VAT system, there are many "end prices".
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
amount of tax paid would be on the receipt
Including those where VAT is either exempt or zero rated? And there is a real difference between exempt and zero rated - not necessarily to the final consumer but within the accounting systems.
There is a huge difference between Exempt and Zero rated. Exempt is where VAT CANNOT be added, Zero is where is can but, primarily for political reasons, it is not. Example...Books, Childrens Clothes and Medicines are Exempt. Food and Newspapers are Zero Rated. This means that a future government has the option of increasing it's 'take' by upping the rate on food, currently 0% to, say, 5%. (And commit electoral suicide in the process).
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
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There is a huge difference between Exempt and Zero rated. Exempt is where VAT CANNOT be added, Zero is where is can but, primarily for political reasons, it is not. Example...Books, Childrens Clothes and Medicines are Exempt. Food and Newspapers are Zero Rated. This means that a future government has the option of increasing it's 'take' by upping the rate on food, currently 0% to, say, 5%. (And commit electoral suicide in the process).
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
Again, I fully agree except*, and am fully aware the these little niceties, including the required nominal accounting processes. The problem that Henize has is that he can't see the wider picture, he has no comprehension of that outside of his perceived viewpoint, which, in itself, is not always the full story. Thus he becomes confused all to easily, and Uncle Alex, who he apparently adores, just muddies the water that bit more. * Children's clothing is NOT exempt. It is zero rated with exceptions.
modified on Tuesday, August 24, 2010 8:18 AM
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Our tax code is insanely complex also, and we don't have VAT. The problem isn't necessarly the type of tax, but the endless regulations. I'm for 1 simple VAT for each level of government, and no other taxes. The tax would be part of the end price displayed on the price tag of goods and services, and the amount of tax paid would be on the receipt.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
end price
Within the VAT system, there are many "end prices".
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
amount of tax paid would be on the receipt
Including those where VAT is either exempt or zero rated? And there is a real difference between exempt and zero rated - not necessarily to the final consumer but within the accounting systems.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Within the VAT system, there are many "end prices".
I don't know what kind of VAT you are referring to, probably your complex euro system, but the one I am referring to is simply a percentage of the value added (the markup). For instance, the VAT is 10% and I pull some carrots out of the ground and sell them for a dollar. The tax I pay is 10 cents so I only get 90 cent profit. The receipt says price $1.00, tax paid 10 cents to federal government. Now that person sells the carrots he bought at a markup for $1.20, he only has to pay tax on the markup. On the tax form the first box is 10% of 1.20 so thats 12 cents, he uses his the receipt of the carrots he bought, looks at the amount me paid in tax, 10 cents, and subtracts that from the first box so the final tax owed box is 2 cents. He only paid tax on the value he added, which was only 20 cents, so the tax owed is 2 cents. However, a total of 10% of 1.20 or 12 cents was paid to the government from the sale of the carrots.
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So you're against state's rights to impose their own taxes? I can't argue that a uniform tax code would be far easier to deal with, but it's actually as much a state's rights issue as anything else.
Distind wrote:
So you're against state's rights to impose their own taxes?
I'm against special taxes on certain items. Each level of government should have one single tax, a VAT tax. No other taxes are necessary. That would be 4 levels of taxation, 1 for each level of government, and every state, country, and city would be responsible for its own collection and enforcment.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Within the VAT system, there are many "end prices".
I don't know what kind of VAT you are referring to, probably your complex euro system, but the one I am referring to is simply a percentage of the value added (the markup). For instance, the VAT is 10% and I pull some carrots out of the ground and sell them for a dollar. The tax I pay is 10 cents so I only get 90 cent profit. The receipt says price $1.00, tax paid 10 cents to federal government. Now that person sells the carrots he bought at a markup for $1.20, he only has to pay tax on the markup. On the tax form the first box is 10% of 1.20 so thats 12 cents, he uses his the receipt of the carrots he bought, looks at the amount me paid in tax, 10 cents, and subtracts that from the first box so the final tax owed box is 2 cents. He only paid tax on the value he added, which was only 20 cents, so the tax owed is 2 cents. However, a total of 10% of 1.20 or 12 cents was paid to the government from the sale of the carrots.
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Your calculations are somewhat out. Using your calculations, the consumer and everybody else in the process would be making over payments of VAT. Looks like you need a refresher course in arithmetic.
Whats 10% of 1.20? 12 cents, if you look at my calculations, that is all that is paid to the government throughout the entire process. It is no wonder I can't get anything through to you people, you don't even understand basic math. :doh:
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Whats 10% of 1.20? 12 cents, if you look at my calculations, that is all that is paid to the government throughout the entire process. It is no wonder I can't get anything through to you people, you don't even understand basic math. :doh:
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$1.20 is the sale price that includes 10% VAT. In other words, $1.20 == 110% The VAT on that $1.20 is not $0.12 but in fact it is $0.1090909090909091 this means the goods before VAT are valued at $1.090909090909091 Therefore, $1.090909090909091 plus $0.1090909090909091 giving $1.20 You pay the VAT taxman $0.12 but everybody else will pay what they should pay - namely just fractionally under $0.11 and on a $1M contract, that is an awfully large over-payment in VAT you would pay! It looks to me as if it is Henize can't do basic arithmetic!!! UNLESS you are suggesting that the sale prices EXCLUDES VAT, which wasn't your first premise.
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$1.20 is the sale price that includes 10% VAT. In other words, $1.20 == 110% The VAT on that $1.20 is not $0.12 but in fact it is $0.1090909090909091 this means the goods before VAT are valued at $1.090909090909091 Therefore, $1.090909090909091 plus $0.1090909090909091 giving $1.20 You pay the VAT taxman $0.12 but everybody else will pay what they should pay - namely just fractionally under $0.11 and on a $1M contract, that is an awfully large over-payment in VAT you would pay! It looks to me as if it is Henize can't do basic arithmetic!!! UNLESS you are suggesting that the sale prices EXCLUDES VAT, which wasn't your first premise.
I was simply trying to explain it in a way you would understand. What I am trying to convey to your puny eurobrain is that the tax should be on the markup only. And I think the final price on the price tags of goods and services should include the tax.
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I was simply trying to explain it in a way you would understand. What I am trying to convey to your puny eurobrain is that the tax should be on the markup only. And I think the final price on the price tags of goods and services should include the tax.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
tax should be on the markup only
And that won't work. On each transaction involving VAT there is always an INPUT VAT and an OUTPUT VAT in each of the processes within the life of those goods. The difference between OUTPUT VAT and INPUT VAT is what is either paid or reclaimed from Government at EACH stage of the process. The markup represents what the profit (or loss (as you know some goods are loss leaders)) would be required from the transaction and NOT the VAT due/refunded.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
And I think the final price on the price tags of goods and services should include the tax.
So my calculations were spot on. Go invest in a calculator that gives you the correct answers :doh: However, that's me done this thread :)