Interesting study of US raw/adjusted rural/urban data sets.
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Distind wrote:
fat_boy wrote: Free of mans influence of course the true temperature How exactly do you reach this conclusion?
Free of the effect of urbanisation and data manipulation. By removing these two factors one is left with ONLY the effects of CO2 and natural forces. Given this clearer understanding we will be in a position to determine the relative forcings. With urbanisation and data manipulation in the way we will never have a clear picture.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
Free of mans influence
What about land clearing in rural areas? Just because it's not a city doesn't mean it hasn't been dug up, deforested, dammed or otherwise plundered, possibly for generations. Who's to say what effects those things might have on the data recorded? Any why is 'data manipulation' limited to data recorded in urban areas? Sounds like a load of shit to me.
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Heh, I live in a high rise... Too far from street level to hear stray cats... Just buses, car horns, and sirens. I do miss the suburbs, though... Was nice to go to sleep to the sound of crickets chirping. Peaceful.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)No, you misunderstand. The cats were in the house with us. Our cats. It seems the thing to do last night was a game of tag in the living room. Our sleeping arrangements are still pretty disorganized - bedrooms still full of boxes. I was trying to sleep on a couple of Therma-rests on the floor, and every time I fell asleep I'd wind up in the middle of their game. goddamn cats.... :mad: ;)
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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No, you misunderstand. The cats were in the house with us. Our cats. It seems the thing to do last night was a game of tag in the living room. Our sleeping arrangements are still pretty disorganized - bedrooms still full of boxes. I was trying to sleep on a couple of Therma-rests on the floor, and every time I fell asleep I'd wind up in the middle of their game. goddamn cats.... :mad: ;)
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
Ah... No pets here, but I miss my old dog... He was always quiet, until the doorbell rang... Then he'd go nuts until the person either left or was invited in... Sigh...
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
fat_boy wrote:
Well then, you will be happy to debate this small very simple issue about rural data vs adjusted data since the scope for simplisticsm and incomplete understanding is limited.
No, I will not "be happy to debate this." I didn't even click the link in your original post, and I don't intend to do so. Every time I think, "Hey, maybe he'll actually make a scientific argument this time," you disappoint me. Let me just save us both some time and sum up your view: 1) Anyone who believes in global warming is a [scam artist/government agent/criminal] 2) Anyone who doesn't read every single article you link has been brainwashed by previous 3) Yours is the only true religion, and all non-believers should be lynched Now here's my viewpoint: 1) All viewpoints are tentative, pending further evidence 2) Some issues are too complex to be fully understood by computer geeks like us, so we need to, at least to some degree, trust the findings of people who spend their lives trying to understand said issues. 3) "I don't know yet" is a valid answer 4) In the event of #3, hope for the best and plan for the worst.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
- Yours is the only true religion, and all non-believers should be lynched
This is the problem with so much of the entrenched thinking around. It leads to all kinds of things that are patently false on their face. For proof take all the nonsense in relation to Obama as examples.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Now here's my viewpoint: 1) All viewpoints are tentative, pending further evidence 2) Some issues are too complex to be fully understood by computer geeks like us, so we need to, at least to some degree, trust the findings of people who spend their lives trying to understand said issues. 3) "I don't know yet" is a valid answer 4) In the event of #3, hope for the best and plan for the worst.
This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the current arguments of various subjects right now. The things that are really irritating right now are all the made up bull or partial truth lies that are being passed around. See your own 911 mosque that isn't a mosque issue. X| Now a christian fundamentalist wants to create a Christian community center in the area.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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Ah... No pets here, but I miss my old dog... He was always quiet, until the doorbell rang... Then he'd go nuts until the person either left or was invited in... Sigh...
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Madness? Madness!? THIS... IS.... a very overused meme, but still fun :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
There's no amount of evidence that will change your mind. As has been proven to me on more than one occasion most programmers don't apply the logical thinking they use in their professional life to their thinking of how other things work, but that falls in line with the saying that "People aren't logical." Even if all this GW is a bunch of bologna, it doesn't change the fact that it is in our national security interest to stop using 19th century energy technology and start creating and using 21st century. But in order to get that going we'd have to have government funding of science and since the current trend of the people is to fear it that's not going to happen very easily or anytime soon. You would think after all the oil spills, 70s gas crunch, and problems in the middle east that the American people would be smart enough to demand a move from it. But no the privateers of capitalism would rather stall such a change until it's more costly in both dollars and cents and human impacts. They don't have any vision of profit in change so here we are. That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
wolfbinary wrote:
Even if all this GW is a bunch of bologna, it doesn't change the fact that it is in our national security interest to stop using 19th century energy technology and start creating and using 21st century.
Such as?
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Ah... No pets here, but I miss my old dog... He was always quiet, until the doorbell rang... Then he'd go nuts until the person either left or was invited in... Sigh...
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)You threw him away to live in a concrete prison?
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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fat_boy wrote:
Why wont you change YOUR mind given such blatant evidence?
I'm not the one posting all the crap harping on it. I'm not trying to persuade anyone on anything about GW. I don't know if your venting or trying to persuade people here to your point of view, but the repetition is boring. I know we have an effect on the Earth by just looking around me at the water, oil spills, and landfills. I analogize GW as a glass of actively exchanged carbon and methane glasses that someone is poring more into. Eventually the glass will be full. The question they have right now and still don't know is where is it all going? One explanation is more acidic oceans, but that doesn't account for all of it. A great deal of the coral reefs are either dead or dieing. Look it up. Australia has some issues with it right now and now Florida does too. Have you checked out our plastic mess in the Pacific Ocean. We have an effect on our environment.
fat_boy wrote:
Irrelevant and a different topic, one which I happen to be in accord with by the way.
Not if the technology is the answer to the man made emissions being created. Whether or not you believe it or are skeptical, which you aren't, you have made it clear that you will not support the necessary change in our infrastructure to make it happen if GW is the banner waved to make it happen. All you have posted, more times that I can remember, is about all the problems you see in temperature numbers without saying anything or much else about it.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
wolfbinary wrote:
We have an effect on our environment
Sure we do. But lets not forget that CO2 is not a pollutant.
wolfbinary wrote:
you have made it clear that you will not support the necessary change in our infrastructure to make it happen if GW is the banner waved to make it happen
Well, actually my position has always ben pro alternative energy for a number of reasons, non of which is AGW related. The fact is that limiting CO2 production is not only a waste of time but actually limiting our agricultural ability. Also the amount of money we are wasting on it is diverting funds from valid areas of research. My final grip with AGW is the damage its doing to science and technology. When it finally dies, it will have so damaged the name of science that the world will never have the same faith in it as it has had. And thats a big shame.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Distind wrote:
fat_boy wrote: Free of mans influence of course the true temperature How exactly do you reach this conclusion?
Free of the effect of urbanisation and data manipulation. By removing these two factors one is left with ONLY the effects of CO2 and natural forces. Given this clearer understanding we will be in a position to determine the relative forcings. With urbanisation and data manipulation in the way we will never have a clear picture.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
So data that avoids the city heat island effect, not data that is influenced by man. That makes more sense. That said, it is possible to compensate for the heat island effect, and as far as I remember is typically done when doing anything of real value. Typically the stations are used more for the differential of temperature rather than the direct temperature, again, in items that are of any real value, so none of the studies you read about in the news are terribly likely to qualify there.
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fat_boy wrote:
Free of mans influence
What about land clearing in rural areas? Just because it's not a city doesn't mean it hasn't been dug up, deforested, dammed or otherwise plundered, possibly for generations. Who's to say what effects those things might have on the data recorded? Any why is 'data manipulation' limited to data recorded in urban areas? Sounds like a load of shit to me.
I think I got it, the whole heat island effect, and his assumption that any compensation for it will be done in such a way to skew the data towards the assumed interests of the climate scientists. If there's anything else to it I'm going to have to say it's all a load of cow flatulence, as well... there's still cow flatulence to deal with in rural areas. Produces both CO2 and heat mind you.
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Heh, you should... It's funny... All one-liners and comic book style violence. Just don't take it seriously, or you'll be VERY disappointed.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Ian Shlasko wrote:
- Yours is the only true religion, and all non-believers should be lynched
This is the problem with so much of the entrenched thinking around. It leads to all kinds of things that are patently false on their face. For proof take all the nonsense in relation to Obama as examples.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Now here's my viewpoint: 1) All viewpoints are tentative, pending further evidence 2) Some issues are too complex to be fully understood by computer geeks like us, so we need to, at least to some degree, trust the findings of people who spend their lives trying to understand said issues. 3) "I don't know yet" is a valid answer 4) In the event of #3, hope for the best and plan for the worst.
This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the current arguments of various subjects right now. The things that are really irritating right now are all the made up bull or partial truth lies that are being passed around. See your own 911 mosque that isn't a mosque issue. X| Now a christian fundamentalist wants to create a Christian community center in the area.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
Yeah, the mosque thing is all a joke... Politicians fishing for votes. Fortunately, someone (I forget who) actually came up with a sensible compromise, to shut everyone up. It's going to be a rather large building, so someone suggested that it contain an "inter-faith" center, to promote cooperation between religions and such. It kind of makes sense, and fits in with the "message" that the Muslim community is trying to send in NYC. The builders seem responsive to that idea, and I think it's a good plan.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Heh, you should... It's funny... All one-liners and comic book style violence. Just don't take it seriously, or you'll be VERY disappointed.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
You threw him away to live in a concrete prison?
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
I went away to college, and my parents gave him away to a good friend... That friend had a couple of young children who showered the dog with attention... He eventually died of old age, fat and happy. Yet again, you fail.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Yeah... you never forget a good pet. They're special relationships.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
No doubt... Only have two photos on display in my apartment, and one of them is him.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
No doubt... Only have two photos on display in my apartment, and one of them is him.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
wolfbinary wrote:
Even if all this GW is a bunch of bologna, it doesn't change the fact that it is in our national security interest to stop using 19th century energy technology and start creating and using 21st century.
Such as?
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
Just don't take it seriously, or you'll be VERY disappointed.
I've read my Herodotus - that's why I didn't bother seeing the film. The trailers told me all I needed to know. ;)
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
Heh... Like I said... Mindless comic book violence. Lots of good one-liners. You've got a bunch of barbaric neanderthals that are egotistical and nigh-unstoppable warriors, a narrator that keeps going on and on about how cool they are, and a bunch of super-evil bad guys led by an androgynous emperor with a superiority complex. Basically... It's a fun popcorn flick. (Yes, it's "based" on the battle of Thermopylae, but they've taken so much creative license that you'll just be annoyed if you try to compare it to reality)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Hey, so do you think we've sufficiently hijacked this thread now? :-D
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
Yep! Think we proved a point I made earlier... This part of the thread is no longer about that stuff in the title that I won't mention :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)