The Holocene extinciton period
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Aparently we are in an 'extinciton period' due to mankindThe Holocene extinction is the widespread, ongoing extinction of species during the present Holocene epoch.[^] "Between 1500 and 2009, 875 extinctions have been documented by the International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources." Right, so thats the facts. "However, most extinctions go undocumented. Up to 140,000 species per year (based on Species-area theory)[2] may be the present rate of extinction based upon upper bound estimating." and thats the fear mongering theoretical guesswork. Couple of questions: 1) How many species are being actively maintaned by man today. 2) How many species has man created by breeding? (from wheat to cows for example)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Aparently we are in an 'extinciton period' due to mankindThe Holocene extinction is the widespread, ongoing extinction of species during the present Holocene epoch.[^] "Between 1500 and 2009, 875 extinctions have been documented by the International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources." Right, so thats the facts. "However, most extinctions go undocumented. Up to 140,000 species per year (based on Species-area theory)[2] may be the present rate of extinction based upon upper bound estimating." and thats the fear mongering theoretical guesswork. Couple of questions: 1) How many species are being actively maintaned by man today. 2) How many species has man created by breeding? (from wheat to cows for example)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
- How many species has man created by breeding? (from wheat to cows for example)
Well, there's that strain of E. coli that evolved to metabolise citrate...
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fat_boy wrote:
- How many species has man created by breeding? (from wheat to cows for example)
Well, there's that strain of E. coli that evolved to metabolise citrate...
They seem to mutate quite readilly http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14094-bacteria-make-major-evolutionary-shift-in-the-lab.html[^] We had this discussion some time back, you pointed out a tortoise that had recently gone extinct due to the introduction of goats or some such on an island. But this kind of 'making it up' science in order to push a political agenda is getting out of control. We are now being told oin TV that species ARE going extinct 100 times quicker than normal. Yet they dont tell you this is a computer modeled prediction based on some theory: Typical media acceptance of that political stance and failure to do its job correctly.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Aparently we are in an 'extinciton period' due to mankindThe Holocene extinction is the widespread, ongoing extinction of species during the present Holocene epoch.[^] "Between 1500 and 2009, 875 extinctions have been documented by the International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources." Right, so thats the facts. "However, most extinctions go undocumented. Up to 140,000 species per year (based on Species-area theory)[2] may be the present rate of extinction based upon upper bound estimating." and thats the fear mongering theoretical guesswork. Couple of questions: 1) How many species are being actively maintaned by man today. 2) How many species has man created by breeding? (from wheat to cows for example)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
I'm not convinced that you have asked the right couple of questions. I would be more inclined to question not "if" but "when" our own human population becomes extinct and what might precede this event and would this event be dramatic or gradual. This http://journalofcosmology.com/Extinction108.html[^] is an informative read.
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I'm not convinced that you have asked the right couple of questions. I would be more inclined to question not "if" but "when" our own human population becomes extinct and what might precede this event and would this event be dramatic or gradual. This http://journalofcosmology.com/Extinction108.html[^] is an informative read.
Most species exist for about 1,000,000 years, and the fact that Homo Sapiens has been around for only about 50,000 years lets us hope that we shall exist for a long time yet.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
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Aparently we are in an 'extinciton period' due to mankindThe Holocene extinction is the widespread, ongoing extinction of species during the present Holocene epoch.[^] "Between 1500 and 2009, 875 extinctions have been documented by the International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources." Right, so thats the facts. "However, most extinctions go undocumented. Up to 140,000 species per year (based on Species-area theory)[2] may be the present rate of extinction based upon upper bound estimating." and thats the fear mongering theoretical guesswork. Couple of questions: 1) How many species are being actively maintaned by man today. 2) How many species has man created by breeding? (from wheat to cows for example)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
The Holocene Extinction Event has been going on a lot longer than Wikipedia says. The megafauna extinctions were certainly not caused by man, as there was not enough people around to destroy all the individuals, and even if there were more people at the time, they lacked helicopters and satellite tracking to be able to get to the very last individuals. So the arguement fails on two points, firstly that wikipedia is not considered research, and secondly the basic fallacy of your point is shown by the fact that the extinctions happened a long time before man could be responsible. Please study some rudimentary Evolutionary Biology and Paleontology before making basic schoolboy howlers.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
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Most species exist for about 1,000,000 years, and the fact that Homo Sapiens has been around for only about 50,000 years lets us hope that we shall exist for a long time yet.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
the fact that Homo Sapiens has been around for only about 50,000 years lets us hope that we shall exist for a long time yet
That's assuming we don't breed ourselves hungry (aka the Malthusian catastrophe), bomb ourselves extinct, or pollute the world beyond salvage. Other species haven't been as reckless wrecking their own habitats. There's also the chance of a meteor, comet, or asteroid slamming into the Earth, but there isn't a lot we can do about those. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Na9-jV_OJI[^]
Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus.
विक्रम (Got my troika of CCCs!) After all is said and done, much is said and little is done.
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The Holocene Extinction Event has been going on a lot longer than Wikipedia says. The megafauna extinctions were certainly not caused by man, as there was not enough people around to destroy all the individuals, and even if there were more people at the time, they lacked helicopters and satellite tracking to be able to get to the very last individuals. So the arguement fails on two points, firstly that wikipedia is not considered research, and secondly the basic fallacy of your point is shown by the fact that the extinctions happened a long time before man could be responsible. Please study some rudimentary Evolutionary Biology and Paleontology before making basic schoolboy howlers.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
the basic fallacy of your point
I am not in support of the what is stated in Wikipedia. It is just more comnputer modeled alarmist bollocks. Sure;y you must have known where I was coming from !
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Dalek Dave wrote:
the fact that Homo Sapiens has been around for only about 50,000 years lets us hope that we shall exist for a long time yet
That's assuming we don't breed ourselves hungry (aka the Malthusian catastrophe), bomb ourselves extinct, or pollute the world beyond salvage. Other species haven't been as reckless wrecking their own habitats. There's also the chance of a meteor, comet, or asteroid slamming into the Earth, but there isn't a lot we can do about those. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Na9-jV_OJI[^]
Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus.
विक्रम (Got my troika of CCCs!) After all is said and done, much is said and little is done.
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus.
So you think humans are a filthy virus that needs to be eliminated? Start with yourself.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Dalek Dave wrote:
the basic fallacy of your point
I am not in support of the what is stated in Wikipedia. It is just more comnputer modeled alarmist bollocks. Sure;y you must have known where I was coming from !
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
In that case, yes it is, I agree. What of the The Great Dying, was that our fault too? These madmen of the Global Warming Climate Change Carbon Footprint Non-Science Neo-Political Conspiracy would probably like to try it on that it was.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus.
So you think humans are a filthy virus that needs to be eliminated? Start with yourself.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
Evolutionarily humans are crap. The real winners are the bacteria. They have been around for 4.1 billion years, and for 3 billion of them they were the only form of life. They inhabit every known habitat, even ones where no other life could exist. There is approximately 2 thousand species of bacteria found on every square inch of your body (note, Species, not individuals). Animals have only been around for 640 million years, new comers. Viruses are even simpler, and are doubtful if they are actually alive as they have no means to autoreplicate, have no dna, are susceptable to horizontal gene transfer and rarely remain the same for more than about 5-10 generations before mutations change them. So viruses are not that great a thing to be, but a bacterium is a wonderful thing. You should study micro-biology, it is a fascinating subject.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
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Evolutionarily humans are crap. The real winners are the bacteria. They have been around for 4.1 billion years, and for 3 billion of them they were the only form of life. They inhabit every known habitat, even ones where no other life could exist. There is approximately 2 thousand species of bacteria found on every square inch of your body (note, Species, not individuals). Animals have only been around for 640 million years, new comers. Viruses are even simpler, and are doubtful if they are actually alive as they have no means to autoreplicate, have no dna, are susceptable to horizontal gene transfer and rarely remain the same for more than about 5-10 generations before mutations change them. So viruses are not that great a thing to be, but a bacterium is a wonderful thing. You should study micro-biology, it is a fascinating subject.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Evolutionarily humans are crap.
Kill yourself.
Dalek Dave wrote:
The real winners are the bacteria.
Bacteria do not build machines, create art, build rocket ships that go into space, figure out how the universe works, or experience pleasure.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Evolutionarily humans are crap.
Kill yourself.
Dalek Dave wrote:
The real winners are the bacteria.
Bacteria do not build machines, create art, build rocket ships that go into space, figure out how the universe works, or experience pleasure.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
No, but unlike you, they have survived 4.1 billion years. By any definition, that is success. You, for example will die and that will be the end of the your line. Incidentally, Bacteria do build machines, can create attractive objects, don't need rocket ships to get into space, (they just hitch rides on rocks), we haven't figured out how the universe works, and you have never experienced the pleasure of being with a woman.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
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No, but unlike you, they have survived 4.1 billion years. By any definition, that is success. You, for example will die and that will be the end of the your line. Incidentally, Bacteria do build machines, can create attractive objects, don't need rocket ships to get into space, (they just hitch rides on rocks), we haven't figured out how the universe works, and you have never experienced the pleasure of being with a woman.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
You, for example will die and that will be the end of the your line.
The only thing you have going for you is that you have a few Euros laying around, and after that's all used up the girls wont have anything to do with you, especially after they find out you cant afford viagra anymore. I don't even have to shave, comb my hair, or take a shower, or act very sociable. In fact when I look rugged, and haven't taken a shower in a couple days and not wearing deodorant, and act serious girls seem to like me more (though some really don't).
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Dalek Dave wrote:
You, for example will die and that will be the end of the your line.
The only thing you have going for you is that you have a few Euros laying around, and after that's all used up the girls wont have anything to do with you, especially after they find out you cant afford viagra anymore. I don't even have to shave, comb my hair, or take a shower, or act very sociable. In fact when I look rugged, and haven't taken a shower in a couple days and not wearing deodorant, and act serious girls seem to like me more (though some really don't).
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
You mean Pounds, not Euros. Also...
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I don't even have to shave
Not out of puberty yet then?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
comb my hair
Bald?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
or take a shower
Is that why you are friendless?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
or act very sociable.
We noticed.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I don't even have to shave, comb my hair, or take a shower, or act very sociable. In fact when I look rugged, and haven't taken a shower in a couple days and not wearing deodorant, and act serious girls seem to like me more (though some really don't).
You are confusing 'Girls' with 'Chimps' or 'Fleas'
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
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You mean Pounds, not Euros. Also...
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I don't even have to shave
Not out of puberty yet then?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
comb my hair
Bald?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
or take a shower
Is that why you are friendless?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
or act very sociable.
We noticed.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I don't even have to shave, comb my hair, or take a shower, or act very sociable. In fact when I look rugged, and haven't taken a shower in a couple days and not wearing deodorant, and act serious girls seem to like me more (though some really don't).
You are confusing 'Girls' with 'Chimps' or 'Fleas'
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus.
So you think humans are a filthy virus that needs to be eliminated? Start with yourself.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
So you think humans are a filthy virus that needs to be eliminated?
Smith certainly thought so. And see, the irony of it is that Smith turned out to be much more like a virus than man ever was.
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The Holocene Extinction Event has been going on a lot longer than Wikipedia says. The megafauna extinctions were certainly not caused by man, as there was not enough people around to destroy all the individuals, and even if there were more people at the time, they lacked helicopters and satellite tracking to be able to get to the very last individuals. So the arguement fails on two points, firstly that wikipedia is not considered research, and secondly the basic fallacy of your point is shown by the fact that the extinctions happened a long time before man could be responsible. Please study some rudimentary Evolutionary Biology and Paleontology before making basic schoolboy howlers.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
The megafauna extinctions were certainly not caused by man, as there was not enough people around to destroy all the individuals, and even if there were more people at the time, they lacked helicopters and satellite tracking to be able to get to the very last individuals.
It wasn't a singular event. All people had to do was kill enough to reduce the survival rate below the replacement rate. Then over time, the population decline accelerates until extinction occurs. Megafauna doesn't have a high birth rate so it doesn't take much pressure to have an effect.
Once you agree to clans, tribes, governments...you've opted for socialism. The rest is just details.
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Dalek Dave wrote:
the fact that Homo Sapiens has been around for only about 50,000 years lets us hope that we shall exist for a long time yet
That's assuming we don't breed ourselves hungry (aka the Malthusian catastrophe), bomb ourselves extinct, or pollute the world beyond salvage. Other species haven't been as reckless wrecking their own habitats. There's also the chance of a meteor, comet, or asteroid slamming into the Earth, but there isn't a lot we can do about those. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Na9-jV_OJI[^]
Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus.
विक्रम (Got my troika of CCCs!) After all is said and done, much is said and little is done.
That is such absoloute crap. Ever seen a colony of sea birds on a rock/cliff? Its uterly covered in bird shit. The ground so turned over by centuries of nest digging that barely a single plant grows. Whats going through the mind of a bear when it rips apart a bees nest for the honey? Does it take every other hive to ensure its got a good future supply? Its only natural predation and the scarcity of their prey that keeps numbers in check.
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not.
More crap, and by the way YOU are a human too. The only species that CARES for the environemnt is humans! Whens the last time you saw a dog trying to save an endangered species? Instinctive balance! Where do you get this bolocks? Balanc in nature is acchieved by the relative numbers of predators and quantity of naturally available food. Man though has learnt to protect himself from his predators and produce his own food. ANd fo rthis you condemn us as some kind of parasite? Intelligence is a disease? Well then why dont you be stupid and go and live in the jungle. See how long you last.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Dalek Dave wrote:
The megafauna extinctions were certainly not caused by man, as there was not enough people around to destroy all the individuals, and even if there were more people at the time, they lacked helicopters and satellite tracking to be able to get to the very last individuals.
It wasn't a singular event. All people had to do was kill enough to reduce the survival rate below the replacement rate. Then over time, the population decline accelerates until extinction occurs. Megafauna doesn't have a high birth rate so it doesn't take much pressure to have an effect.
Once you agree to clans, tribes, governments...you've opted for socialism. The rest is just details.
The point is the megafauna were already in major decline before man got there (The North America Megafauna Collapse) and he certainly wasn't responsible for the total extinction of so many species. And what about the cat gap? That was millions of years before the first Homo ever climbed out of a tree.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]