Attack on Iraq could lead Saddam to unleash his chemical and biological weapons
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My point was that you tried to minimalize Iraq's weapons in an effort to reinforce your own position. People are dying because of those weapons. I really don't want to get too deep into this discussion. We know each others positions too well already. Let's just agree to disagree. OK? Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Mike Mullikin wrote: People are dying because of those weapons. People are dying because of the spears owned by Kalihari bushmen, does that make them weapons of mass destruction ? I'm really sorry that your brother-in-law is sick, and I can see how that would cloud your ability to discuss this reasonably, but I don't see how your post was in any way a logical follow on to the discussion at hand. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
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1. bush wants Iraq to become a model mid-eastern state. he wants to get rid of Saddam, set up a secular democracy and let the country prosper (with the US giving it cash in exchange for sweet crude oil). this will show the rest of the mid-east the wonders of a secular democracy that they will all follow. then, when they're all happy and rich they won't want to kill us. of course they can look to europe, africa, asia or the americas to see other examples of secular democracies, but let's not confuse things. 2. bush would like to get the US out of Saudi Arabia. but that would leave the US without a big military base in the area. so, by invading and conquering Iraq, the US gets to build a new base or two just up the road from Saudi Arabia. 3. iraq has lots of oil that is reportedly even easier to get to than SA's. 4. iraq has a lot of oil. 5. saddam is still without WMDs (gas doesn't count, that's WWI technology). that means GWB can still bully him, unlike the equally unstable, equally dangerous, but sadly, oil-free N. Korea and Pakistan. -c
A conclusion is simply the place where someone got tired of thinking.
I sense a common refrain here...:-D But yeah. I think that is one of the reasons that GW wants to go in. But you forgot another one: That way both Bush administrations can set up an Iraqi leader. ;P
You will now find yourself in a wonderous, magical place, filled with talking gnomes, mythical squirrels, and, almost as an afterthought, your bookmarks -Shog9 teaching Mel Feik how to bookmark I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder
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Mike Mullikin wrote: People are dying because of those weapons. People are dying because of the spears owned by Kalihari bushmen, does that make them weapons of mass destruction ? I'm really sorry that your brother-in-law is sick, and I can see how that would cloud your ability to discuss this reasonably, but I don't see how your post was in any way a logical follow on to the discussion at hand. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
Christian Graus wrote: People are dying because of the spears owned by Kalihari bushmen, Do you have any evidence of this ? Or do you mean the Kalahari suicide spear throwers ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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...warns Jane's report: http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jtsm/jtsm021112_1_n.shtml[^] If the World's foremost authority on global defence is releasing warnings to this effect, why on earth is Bush pushing so hard for military action? :confused:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Life, as well as software, has bugs." - Roger Wright
David Wulff wrote: If the World's foremost authority on global defense is releasing warnings to this effect, What !! Janes is great when it comes to operations and logistics, but I would hardly call them foremost in strategy and tactics. Read this from the beginning ! If the US and its allies wage war on Iraq, Duh !! Janes !! The war has already begun. 1. The Pentagon has changed the engagementt rules. 2. US engineers appear to be already in Kurdistan upgrading bases. 3. The Azores corridors have been reserved and are active. Also I bet the Eager mace exercise is more enhanced than reported. Don't expect GW to do what his daddy did and wait for the UN crud. GW will get in the saddle and ride the cruise missiles himself !! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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David Wulff wrote: If the World's foremost authority on global defense is releasing warnings to this effect, What !! Janes is great when it comes to operations and logistics, but I would hardly call them foremost in strategy and tactics. Read this from the beginning ! If the US and its allies wage war on Iraq, Duh !! Janes !! The war has already begun. 1. The Pentagon has changed the engagementt rules. 2. US engineers appear to be already in Kurdistan upgrading bases. 3. The Azores corridors have been reserved and are active. Also I bet the Eager mace exercise is more enhanced than reported. Don't expect GW to do what his daddy did and wait for the UN crud. GW will get in the saddle and ride the cruise missiles himself !! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin Davies wrote: GW will get in the saddle and ride the cruise missiles himself !! we can only hope. -c
A conclusion is simply the place where someone got tired of thinking.
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Colin Davies wrote: GW will get in the saddle and ride the cruise missiles himself !! we can only hope. -c
A conclusion is simply the place where someone got tired of thinking.
Chris Losinger wrote: we can only hope. Yeah I hope it comes out on video. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Christian Graus wrote: People are dying because of the spears owned by Kalihari bushmen, Do you have any evidence of this ? Or do you mean the Kalahari suicide spear throwers ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
To be honest, I'm stunned I only got one letter wrong. I went through three potential spellings before settling on this, and none of them was right. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
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...warns Jane's report: http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jtsm/jtsm021112_1_n.shtml[^] If the World's foremost authority on global defence is releasing warnings to this effect, why on earth is Bush pushing so hard for military action? :confused:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Life, as well as software, has bugs." - Roger Wright
I for one will NOT be surprised if Saddam unleashes whatever Scuds he has left on Israel the moment Gulf War II kicks off. People had better pray that they don't have chemical warheads - let's face it, he'll have nothing to lose - he sure as hell won't give a damn if Israel responds in kind. The man is a tyrant and the Iraqi people deserve to be rid of him - the problem is that it may not be that easy. I for one would like to see a world without Saddam - doing nothing would mean decades more grief for the people of Iraq. What worries me is the motives behind this and the fact that, when cornered, he WILL bite. The UK will be comitting 15,000 troops towards this war - let's hope they all come home safely afterwards... (we'll need their fire-fighting skills!).
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
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Chris Losinger wrote: 5. saddam is still without WMDs (gas doesn't count, that's WWI technology). I'll be sure to tell my brother-in-law that the cancer growing in him from his exposure to Saddam's gas during Desert Storm is WW1 technology. That will make it all better. :mad: Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Exposure to Saddams gas? Sure it wasn't exposure to depleted uranium? A more likely explanation surely? I think the authorities already know that Gulf War Syndrome (along with the increase in cancers suffered by allied combatants) was down to DU, but dare not admit this officially because it will cost them a fortune in reparations. If Saddam had of used gas, then surely this would be common knowledge? At the time there was an unoffical threat to unleash nuclear weapons if he used gas/bio and AFAIK the threat worked. Confused.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
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1. bush wants Iraq to become a model mid-eastern state. he wants to get rid of Saddam, set up a secular democracy and let the country prosper (with the US giving it cash in exchange for sweet crude oil). this will show the rest of the mid-east the wonders of a secular democracy that they will all follow. then, when they're all happy and rich they won't want to kill us. of course they can look to europe, africa, asia or the americas to see other examples of secular democracies, but let's not confuse things. 2. bush would like to get the US out of Saudi Arabia. but that would leave the US without a big military base in the area. so, by invading and conquering Iraq, the US gets to build a new base or two just up the road from Saudi Arabia. 3. iraq has lots of oil that is reportedly even easier to get to than SA's. 4. iraq has a lot of oil. 5. saddam is still without WMDs (gas doesn't count, that's WWI technology). that means GWB can still bully him, unlike the equally unstable, equally dangerous, but sadly, oil-free N. Korea and Pakistan. -c
A conclusion is simply the place where someone got tired of thinking.
Sorry, girl question - what does WMD stand for?
"How many eiffel towels are there in Paris?" "I'd say 10." "Where was the Berlin Wall?" "Israel"
Stupid People - posted by Loket
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I would have thought any moron could tell that this would be the outcome. Push a dog into a corner and it WILL bite you. The question is where are these weapons and how far can they travel. Could they reach the US ? His is a secular state, so it's unlikely to tell people religious fairy tails in order to get them to a point of being willing to die for their cause, I would have thought. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
Christian Graus wrote: Could they reach the US ? As a closer target I have to ask - could they reach the UK? As I've said before, if we can be given proof that not attacking him now will lead to him attacking us later with greater weapons, then maybe the general population could be expected to support this war. But in the meantime, why are we all living in danger? Just because GWB wants to play with his big expensive toys and get cheap oil thrown in as a bonus? :confused:
"How many eiffel towels are there in Paris?" "I'd say 10." "Where was the Berlin Wall?" "Israel"
Stupid People - posted by Loket
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Sorry, girl question - what does WMD stand for?
"How many eiffel towels are there in Paris?" "I'd say 10." "Where was the Berlin Wall?" "Israel"
Stupid People - posted by Loket
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Sorry, girl question - what does WMD stand for?
"How many eiffel towels are there in Paris?" "I'd say 10." "Where was the Berlin Wall?" "Israel"
Stupid People - posted by Loket
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Aaah -thanks! It's wierd how guys just know these things. :rolleyes:
"How many eiffel towels are there in Paris?" "I'd say 10." "Where was the Berlin Wall?" "Israel"
Stupid People - posted by Loket
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Sorry, girl question - what does WMD stand for?
"How many eiffel towels are there in Paris?" "I'd say 10." "Where was the Berlin Wall?" "Israel"
Stupid People - posted by Loket
Megan Forbes wrote: Sorry, girl question - what does WMD stand for? LOL LOL Waste Management Division. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Exposure to Saddams gas? Sure it wasn't exposure to depleted uranium? A more likely explanation surely? I think the authorities already know that Gulf War Syndrome (along with the increase in cancers suffered by allied combatants) was down to DU, but dare not admit this officially because it will cost them a fortune in reparations. If Saddam had of used gas, then surely this would be common knowledge? At the time there was an unoffical threat to unleash nuclear weapons if he used gas/bio and AFAIK the threat worked. Confused.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: Exposure to Saddams gas? Sure it wasn't exposure to depleted uranium? A more likely explanation surely? Thank you Dr. Caldecott, I'll be sure to pass on your diagnosis (of a man you've never met) to the doctors that have been treating him the last few years. I'm sure they'll be thrilled. :| Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
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Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: Exposure to Saddams gas? Sure it wasn't exposure to depleted uranium? A more likely explanation surely? Thank you Dr. Caldecott, I'll be sure to pass on your diagnosis (of a man you've never met) to the doctors that have been treating him the last few years. I'm sure they'll be thrilled. :| Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Err ... no need to be sarcastic Mike. I just find it totally bizarre that this isn't public knowledge (Saddam using gas on allied troops during the Gulf War). DU causes cancer, hence my legitimate comment!
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
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Mike Mullikin wrote: People are dying because of those weapons. People are dying because of the spears owned by Kalihari bushmen, does that make them weapons of mass destruction ? I'm really sorry that your brother-in-law is sick, and I can see how that would cloud your ability to discuss this reasonably, but I don't see how your post was in any way a logical follow on to the discussion at hand. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
Christian Graus wrote: I don't see how your post was in any way a logical follow on to the discussion at hand. What discussion?? :confused: Oh, you mean the little "we're right, everyone else on the planet is a fool" lovefest you're having? Hardly a discussion in my book. If you guys don't believe that chemical and biological weapons are seriously f***ing dangerous that's your problem, but I for one don't want the world to find out the hard way. What's the old saying? "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." There is a lot of merit in that simple phrase that civilized society has ignored time and time again in our long blood-soaked history. I would have a hell of a time looking my grandchildren in the eye 20 years from now and tell them about how we had the chance to stop Saddam Hussein before he wiped out millions of souls in the middle east but we were too afraid to act. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
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Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: Exposure to Saddams gas? Sure it wasn't exposure to depleted uranium? A more likely explanation surely? Thank you Dr. Caldecott, I'll be sure to pass on your diagnosis (of a man you've never met) to the doctors that have been treating him the last few years. I'm sure they'll be thrilled. :| Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Mike Mullikin wrote: Thank you Dr. Caldecott, I'll be sure to pass on your diagnosis (of a man you've never met) to the doctors that have been treating him the last few years. I'm sure they'll be thrilled. No way did REC deserve that sort of sarcasm! DU is commonly understood as a potential cancer-causing agent. I think most people would be surprised to learn the gas can also do the same. How about saving the sarcasm and just telling us more about the gas - as it seems from what you say that's yet another long-term and potentially fatal hazard our soldiers had to face out there - another hazard that's been effectively "swept under the carpet". "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can."
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David Wulff wrote: If the World's foremost authority on global defense is releasing warnings to this effect, What !! Janes is great when it comes to operations and logistics, but I would hardly call them foremost in strategy and tactics. Read this from the beginning ! If the US and its allies wage war on Iraq, Duh !! Janes !! The war has already begun. 1. The Pentagon has changed the engagementt rules. 2. US engineers appear to be already in Kurdistan upgrading bases. 3. The Azores corridors have been reserved and are active. Also I bet the Eager mace exercise is more enhanced than reported. Don't expect GW to do what his daddy did and wait for the UN crud. GW will get in the saddle and ride the cruise missiles himself !! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin Davies wrote: What !! Janes is great when it comes to operations and logistics, but I would hardly call them foremost in strategy and tactics. I stand by my original statement. This has nothing to do with strategy and tactics, it has everything to do with information and analysis, of which they are unparallelled. Janes don't fight wars, they analyse risks, (amongst others). To quote them "Jane's Sentinel Security Assessments are relied upon by governments, ministries, armed forces, intelligence agencies and industry all over the world for their systematic assessment of a country's structure, performance, strategic objectives, foreign investment, defence expenditure and capabilities, political developments, in-country and external threats, and more". aka "The stuff you wont find on Google", providing you have the cash to spare that is, or are employed by a company that does. The war that should be fought in Iraq is one against the humanitarian problems, and those wars should not be fought with guns and soldiers. Before even that though Afghanistan needs to be sorted out - the place is falling apart at the seams. Hardly a very good case study for the United States to throw around the international community to try and gather support. The current Sentinel Security Assessments risk for Iraq is set at 4/10. In perspective, the USA is 5/10 and the UK is 4/10, therefore my country presents the same risk to the international community as Iraq, and America even more, but I don't see anyone planing to invade our shores. If you have a subscription to the Gulf states SSA, you can read about Iraq's offensive capabilties here[^] and their defence capabilties here[^]. Colin Davies wrote: Read this from the beginning ! After you ha