Who's not a moron?
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"You don't need to be smart to be president" --Republican Congressman J.C. Watts - said at a February campaign appearance on Bush's behalf. Washington Post, 6/11/00 And J.C. is absolutely correct. I really don't care whether Bush is intelligent or not. The government of my country is organized well enough that it can be managed by people of ordinary intellect. That is the way I like it. If other countries have such poorly designed political systems that they need geniuses running them, that is their problem, not mine. Frankly, I do not believe most of the comments attributed to Bush are actual quotes. I listen to the man speak every chance I get, and I have never heard him say anything I considered unintelligent. A slip of the tounge occassionally, but no more than I recall Clinton or Gore suffering from. I don't really like Bush, but I think he is doing an adequate job all things considered. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
I think a leader such as the US President, has to be intelligent enough to select the right people to be advisers and the right advice to listen to. The US Presidency might be embodied in one individual, but I suspect it is really a very large team, where the President is really just the chief spokesperson for the team. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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OK, since Bush has been labeled a "moron", I was curious to know if there are any great leaders in the world today? It's easy to poke, and its funny and all, but I'd seriously like to know who is a great political leader right now. Cretien? Blair? Schroeder? Hussein? Putin? Mbeki? Jiang? Howard? BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
The last one I knew of here was Robert Muldoon. PM for 10+ yrs and President of the World Bank simultaneously. He was extrely well read and could hold an advanced conversation on virtually any topic. A friend of mine was a guide for him when he visited an oil exploration rig. He had read a couple of papers on oil exploration technology the night before apparently and was up to date with the tech talk on board. I disliked him though. He ended up going a bit crazy when he was dumped as leader and became a normal politician. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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OK, since Bush has been labeled a "moron", I was curious to know if there are any great leaders in the world today? It's easy to poke, and its funny and all, but I'd seriously like to know who is a great political leader right now. Cretien? Blair? Schroeder? Hussein? Putin? Mbeki? Jiang? Howard? BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
Why? well: Yale and Harvard do not sell degrees, I believe you actually have to pass exams. His perspective is correct, Americans before trees, caribou, fish. Is leading the strongest nation in the history of the world, in trying times. As is typical of a good leader he has surrounded himself with intelligent and hard working individuals, without regard to the color or gender of those individuals. Strengths: Family. Belief in America and Americans first. Ability to: listen to, evaluate, and act on advice. Weaknesses: Belief in an open arms approach to the US borders (should pull troops from Europe and put them on our borders). Belief in the basic "goodness" of people and the inability to see the inherent evil of the Kennedy's and Dashles of the country. Belief in the inherent "goodness" of all religions. I firmly believe he'll ultimately cure these weaknesses. Mike
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Nice, but the arrow should be pointing upwards...
hmmmmm I'm not sure. Maybe there should be 2 arrows, one for each Michel It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time to say anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a very long time to say, and to listen to.
- TreeBeard -
Why? well: Yale and Harvard do not sell degrees, I believe you actually have to pass exams. His perspective is correct, Americans before trees, caribou, fish. Is leading the strongest nation in the history of the world, in trying times. As is typical of a good leader he has surrounded himself with intelligent and hard working individuals, without regard to the color or gender of those individuals. Strengths: Family. Belief in America and Americans first. Ability to: listen to, evaluate, and act on advice. Weaknesses: Belief in an open arms approach to the US borders (should pull troops from Europe and put them on our borders). Belief in the basic "goodness" of people and the inability to see the inherent evil of the Kennedy's and Dashles of the country. Belief in the inherent "goodness" of all religions. I firmly believe he'll ultimately cure these weaknesses. Mike
Mike Gaskey wrote: Weaknesses: Belief in an open arms approach to the US borders (should pull troops from Europe and put them on our borders). I'm actually a little torn on this one. There is the obvious hole in security here, however how can we close it without building a virtual wall around the caountry? I'm not convinced few thousand soldiers surrounding our border is the best soultion. Also, I'm under the impression that our population growth, if not already negative, is steadily heading in that direction chart[^]. If this is true and remains that way, then who is going to do all the work, and pay taxes, maintain our current dependence on Social Security, etc...?? We need bodies. I'd rather they did everything legally, but %-wise how many of these immigrants are causing any trouble. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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here's a crazy idea: try to defend GWB on his own merits. see if you can complete a positive thought about GWB without using the word "Clinton". give it a try. -c
There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'. --Holgate, from Plastic
My point was that you want to label GW an idiot because he twists a phrase or two but you won't hold your heros to the same standard. That makes you hypocritical IMHO. This is not a defense of Bush, but rather an insult of you. My question still stands - Are you willing to admit that Clinton is a liar? Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
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Mike Gaskey wrote: Weaknesses: Belief in an open arms approach to the US borders (should pull troops from Europe and put them on our borders). I'm actually a little torn on this one. There is the obvious hole in security here, however how can we close it without building a virtual wall around the caountry? I'm not convinced few thousand soldiers surrounding our border is the best soultion. Also, I'm under the impression that our population growth, if not already negative, is steadily heading in that direction chart[^]. If this is true and remains that way, then who is going to do all the work, and pay taxes, maintain our current dependence on Social Security, etc...?? We need bodies. I'd rather they did everything legally, but %-wise how many of these immigrants are causing any trouble. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
brianwelsch wrote: this is true and remains that way, then who is going to do all the work, and pay taxes, maintain our current dependence on Social Security, etc...?? We need bodies. Good insight, thanks. By way of reply, I would personally love to see the govenment get smaller, not larger - except in the area of defense. A smaller tax base might force that to happen. As to Social Security, I have believed for years that this will not be there when I need it. At 57 1/2 it looks like my prediction is wrong, but not by much. This really needs reconstructing (ok, privatized) such that some contributions can be self-directed, then 30 years from now it won't' be an issue for the current 18 - 40 year olds. brianwelsch wrote: I'm not convinced few thousand soldiers surrounding our border is the best soultion. Yes, this is tough - but I think they would do more good for our defense here than in Germany and their salaries would go back into our economy instead of Europe's. brianwelsch wrote: I'd rather they did everything legally, but %-wise how many of these immigrants are causing any trouble. There are really 2 issues: The first is security. I don't believe Hispanics coming in from the south are a danger, but I doubt that is all that is coming across that particular border. From the north, you can't tell what might come down since their borders are as lax as our own - Mexico at least has their own military on their southern border which prevents a worse element from entering ours, except for the terrorist element that can buy their way across our southern border. The second is the drain on the local economies. Once these folks come in they have access to schools, free (via emeregency rooms, if nothing else) health care. Mike
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My point was that you want to label GW an idiot because he twists a phrase or two but you won't hold your heros to the same standard. That makes you hypocritical IMHO. This is not a defense of Bush, but rather an insult of you. My question still stands - Are you willing to admit that Clinton is a liar? Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
and who, exactly, are my "heros" ??? be careful now - be sure you have a reference to back up whoever it is you say. Mike Mullikin wrote: Are you willing to admit that Clinton is a liar? of course. are you willing to admit that this topic is not about Clinton and that you only brought him up to try to prop up GWB? -c
There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'. --Holgate, from Plastic
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and who, exactly, are my "heros" ??? be careful now - be sure you have a reference to back up whoever it is you say. Mike Mullikin wrote: Are you willing to admit that Clinton is a liar? of course. are you willing to admit that this topic is not about Clinton and that you only brought him up to try to prop up GWB? -c
There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'. --Holgate, from Plastic
Chris Losinger wrote: are you willing to admit that this topic is not about Clinton and that you only brought him up to try to prop up GWB? This is absurd. Show me where EXACTLY in this thread I have defended Bush in any way. I simply questioned your credibility because until now (after being pushed) you have not held others to the same standard you hold Bush. Chris Losinger wrote: and who, exactly, are my "heros" ??? be careful now - be sure you have a reference to back up whoever it is you say. Give me a break. This is the soapbox, opinions rule and facts only get in the way. ;P Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
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I think a leader such as the US President, has to be intelligent enough to select the right people to be advisers and the right advice to listen to. The US Presidency might be embodied in one individual, but I suspect it is really a very large team, where the President is really just the chief spokesperson for the team. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Exactly. And I am reasonably confident that Bush is intelligent enough to do that. At least the guy is smart enough to realize that socialism does not work. That demonstrates more intelligence than any Canadian can claim to have. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
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brianwelsch wrote: this is true and remains that way, then who is going to do all the work, and pay taxes, maintain our current dependence on Social Security, etc...?? We need bodies. Good insight, thanks. By way of reply, I would personally love to see the govenment get smaller, not larger - except in the area of defense. A smaller tax base might force that to happen. As to Social Security, I have believed for years that this will not be there when I need it. At 57 1/2 it looks like my prediction is wrong, but not by much. This really needs reconstructing (ok, privatized) such that some contributions can be self-directed, then 30 years from now it won't' be an issue for the current 18 - 40 year olds. brianwelsch wrote: I'm not convinced few thousand soldiers surrounding our border is the best soultion. Yes, this is tough - but I think they would do more good for our defense here than in Germany and their salaries would go back into our economy instead of Europe's. brianwelsch wrote: I'd rather they did everything legally, but %-wise how many of these immigrants are causing any trouble. There are really 2 issues: The first is security. I don't believe Hispanics coming in from the south are a danger, but I doubt that is all that is coming across that particular border. From the north, you can't tell what might come down since their borders are as lax as our own - Mexico at least has their own military on their southern border which prevents a worse element from entering ours, except for the terrorist element that can buy their way across our southern border. The second is the drain on the local economies. Once these folks come in they have access to schools, free (via emeregency rooms, if nothing else) health care. Mike
Mike Gaskey wrote: I would personally love to see the govenment get smaller, not larger - except in the area of defense. I definitely agree with you here. Governments role has continued to grow, and things have continued to get more convoluted, and inefficient. I hope they do start to privatize SS or get rid of it. Mike Gaskey wrote: but I think they would do more good for our defense here than in Germany and their salaries would go back into our economy instead of Europe's. You're right here. Unfortunately politics won't allow this. Also, a handful of terrorist will get in regardless of the border patrol. In Minnesota, journalists are flying at will between the US/Canadian border, no questions. I've also seen reports that people are sneaking weapons through airport security with no trouble. I think it would be easy enough for someone to get in without a hassle, by methods circumventing border patrol. Mike Gaskey wrote: the drain on the local economies This is true, but those places will continue to get the money needed from federal grants, etc.. BTW, have you read Michelle Markins, Invasion? I saw her twice on The Factor, and just haven't gotten around to buying it yet. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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Stan Shannon wrote: I really don't care whether Bush is intelligent or not. i do. the president in general, and bush in particular via his cabinet's liberal interpretation of the constitution, has such a lot of power (such as invading countries without congressionial approval) that i expect (demand?) that the person who sits in the seat should be able to make the best decisions possible. this is the president of the friggin homeowner's association. this guy has his finger on The Button, for fuck's sake. -c
There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'. --Holgate, from Plastic
Chris Losinger wrote: this guy has his finger on The Button, for f***'s sake. I'll let you worry about that one. I can't think of anyone I would trust with that responsibility. Unfortunantly, it just goes with the job. Chris Losinger wrote: liberal interpretation of the constitution Please, we have not been a constitutional republic sense the days of FDR. The gutting of the constitution cannot be blamed on a right-wing conspiracy. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
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Mike Gaskey wrote: I would personally love to see the govenment get smaller, not larger - except in the area of defense. I definitely agree with you here. Governments role has continued to grow, and things have continued to get more convoluted, and inefficient. I hope they do start to privatize SS or get rid of it. Mike Gaskey wrote: but I think they would do more good for our defense here than in Germany and their salaries would go back into our economy instead of Europe's. You're right here. Unfortunately politics won't allow this. Also, a handful of terrorist will get in regardless of the border patrol. In Minnesota, journalists are flying at will between the US/Canadian border, no questions. I've also seen reports that people are sneaking weapons through airport security with no trouble. I think it would be easy enough for someone to get in without a hassle, by methods circumventing border patrol. Mike Gaskey wrote: the drain on the local economies This is true, but those places will continue to get the money needed from federal grants, etc.. BTW, have you read Michelle Markins, Invasion? I saw her twice on The Factor, and just haven't gotten around to buying it yet. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
brianwelsch wrote: BTW, have you read Michelle Markins, Invasion? Not yet, but it is on my list. I've caught her several time on both the Factor and on Hannity. She's also been on a talk show here in Indy. She's really got a handle on the problem. Suspect what I read will have me firing off more emails to Lugar and Bayh (senators). Mike
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Chris Losinger wrote: are you willing to admit that this topic is not about Clinton and that you only brought him up to try to prop up GWB? This is absurd. Show me where EXACTLY in this thread I have defended Bush in any way. I simply questioned your credibility because until now (after being pushed) you have not held others to the same standard you hold Bush. Chris Losinger wrote: and who, exactly, are my "heros" ??? be careful now - be sure you have a reference to back up whoever it is you say. Give me a break. This is the soapbox, opinions rule and facts only get in the way. ;P Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Mike Mullikin wrote: you have not held others to the same standard you hold Bush where did i do that? -c
There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'. --Holgate, from Plastic
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Chris Losinger wrote: this guy has his finger on The Button, for f***'s sake. I'll let you worry about that one. I can't think of anyone I would trust with that responsibility. Unfortunantly, it just goes with the job. Chris Losinger wrote: liberal interpretation of the constitution Please, we have not been a constitutional republic sense the days of FDR. The gutting of the constitution cannot be blamed on a right-wing conspiracy. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
Stan Shannon wrote: The gutting of the constitution cannot be blamed on a right-wing conspiracy. sorry. the replublicans are in charge now. the current continuation of said gutting most certainly can be blamed on them. -c
There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'. --Holgate, from Plastic
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I think a leader such as the US President, has to be intelligent enough to select the right people to be advisers and the right advice to listen to. The US Presidency might be embodied in one individual, but I suspect it is really a very large team, where the President is really just the chief spokesperson for the team. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Well said. That is the mark of a good leader in any country. "I will find a new sig someday."
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Stan Shannon wrote: The gutting of the constitution cannot be blamed on a right-wing conspiracy. sorry. the replublicans are in charge now. the current continuation of said gutting most certainly can be blamed on them. -c
There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'. --Holgate, from Plastic
So, we are only supposed to worry about abuse to the consitution when it occurs to help defend our security (because we don't have the balls to go clean out a nest of terrorists from the middle east), but not when it is abused to secure a leftest social agenda? If we are not willing to see your government militarily eliminate the terrorist threat of the middle east, and if we must get the U.N.'s permission to defend ourselves, than I would think our only other option is to defend ourselves from it by further gutting of the constitution. Is Bush simply supposed to do nothing at all? Is that the intelligent option? "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
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The last one I knew of here was Robert Muldoon. PM for 10+ yrs and President of the World Bank simultaneously. He was extrely well read and could hold an advanced conversation on virtually any topic. A friend of mine was a guide for him when he visited an oil exploration rig. He had read a couple of papers on oil exploration technology the night before apparently and was up to date with the tech talk on board. I disliked him though. He ended up going a bit crazy when he was dumped as leader and became a normal politician. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Sounds like a smart fellow. And knighted, I see. With the exeption of a much debated Bush, no one named a single leader who is currently in office. pretty scary stuff. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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So, we are only supposed to worry about abuse to the consitution when it occurs to help defend our security (because we don't have the balls to go clean out a nest of terrorists from the middle east), but not when it is abused to secure a leftest social agenda? If we are not willing to see your government militarily eliminate the terrorist threat of the middle east, and if we must get the U.N.'s permission to defend ourselves, than I would think our only other option is to defend ourselves from it by further gutting of the constitution. Is Bush simply supposed to do nothing at all? Is that the intelligent option? "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
Stan Shannon wrote: but not when it is abused to secure a leftest social agenda? err.. WTF are you talking about? the 4th amendment is now a "leftist social agenda" ? Stan Shannon wrote: If we are not willing to see your government militarily eliminate the terrorist threat of the middle east i'll say it again: israel, russia, UK. have their militaries stopped the "terrorist threat"? they've been at it a lot longer than the US has. -c
There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'. --Holgate, from Plastic
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Exactly. And I am reasonably confident that Bush is intelligent enough to do that. At least the guy is smart enough to realize that socialism does not work. That demonstrates more intelligence than any Canadian can claim to have. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
I find it hard to believe that a country as complex as the US will ever have One person who can be the total leader. Similar you find in large Companies Like GM, MS etc, the CEO has a large support network before even the divisional heads level. First a US president must be electable through the local then primary then secondary Presidential system. While most americans probably think they are electing a leader, they are probably electing and individual who holds the charisma of the team who he'll be spokesperson for. The job is too complex for any one person, which is why you have cabinet heads, and even they need a lot of support staff. Anyone who expects a US president to be a genius needs their own heads checking. And I guess because GW isn't a genius he then gets labelled as a moron or idiot, which is utter overkill. It still bugs me that the US doesn't see the light and invade Canada, and put the Canadians on reservations out of harms way. Canada's soverignty is the cause of too much political and judicial instability in North America. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.