Pope to be arrested?
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Holocaust denial is illegal in many countries.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
ChrisElston wrote:
Holocaust denial is illegal in many countries.
I specifically avoided that term. I am just stating the facts here regarding what is the crime that His Holiness is accused of. He did not commit any of the rapes that is a known; if he had been involved someone would have shouted out by now. What he is responsible for is the deplorable actions of the Church in hiding what happened. I'd guess that any reasonably capable lawyer could argue that as the cover-up had been going on for a very long time, probably at least as far back as pre-war, he did not encourage it or put it into practice but simply failed to stop it. Having spoken to clergy about this subject it is understandable what they tried to do. From a very ecclesiastical view, the clergy are servants of the Lord and above mortal law. Any sins committed are confessed and once given absolution they are no longer sinners. As the senior clergy have taken these confessions, Canon Law forbids them from disclosing what they heard, they cannot tell the authorities. So this left them with the only option of moving the people. It was a very difficult decision, because of the implications on absolute confidentiality to the penitent, for the Church to agree to start involving the authorities. Personally, I think it is a disgrace, but I took the time to find out why they hid it. It was not a malicious plot, but simply the clergy trying to act within God's will. Odd how things are done in the name of God so often turn out bad.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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ChrisElston wrote:
Holocaust denial is illegal in many countries.
I specifically avoided that term. I am just stating the facts here regarding what is the crime that His Holiness is accused of. He did not commit any of the rapes that is a known; if he had been involved someone would have shouted out by now. What he is responsible for is the deplorable actions of the Church in hiding what happened. I'd guess that any reasonably capable lawyer could argue that as the cover-up had been going on for a very long time, probably at least as far back as pre-war, he did not encourage it or put it into practice but simply failed to stop it. Having spoken to clergy about this subject it is understandable what they tried to do. From a very ecclesiastical view, the clergy are servants of the Lord and above mortal law. Any sins committed are confessed and once given absolution they are no longer sinners. As the senior clergy have taken these confessions, Canon Law forbids them from disclosing what they heard, they cannot tell the authorities. So this left them with the only option of moving the people. It was a very difficult decision, because of the implications on absolute confidentiality to the penitent, for the Church to agree to start involving the authorities. Personally, I think it is a disgrace, but I took the time to find out why they hid it. It was not a malicious plot, but simply the clergy trying to act within God's will. Odd how things are done in the name of God so often turn out bad.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Having no real knowledge of the details, and talking generally, I believe that failing to stop a crime if you have the chance is a crime, and covering up for a crime is a crime. Simply refusing to acknowledge a crime happened in all normal situations is not. However I believe that international law and human rights law which is what I assume they are trying to invoke is far more complicated and technical than normal law, and as you and others rightly say has no jurisdiction anyway.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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Holocaust denial is illegal in many countries.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
Not in Britain. Especially as we invented both the Term and the Actions. The Chronicle of Richard of Devizes describes the routing of London's Jews in 1189. See Here[^]
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
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Also, as head of state, the pope is immune and has further protection under the conventions of diplomatic immunity. Let's face it, as a member of the Hitler youth he got away with quite a lot, so buggering choirboys and being complicit in the cover-ups of mass sexual abuse of children by the organisation he heads is not going to get him arrested either.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Also, as head of state, the pope is immune and has further protection under the conventions of diplomatic immunity.
I would like to see that comment explained further - specifically that the "head of state" is immune. It certainly appears that the ICC has gone after at least one head of state - Bashir.
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ChrisElston wrote:
Holocaust denial is illegal in many countries.
I specifically avoided that term. I am just stating the facts here regarding what is the crime that His Holiness is accused of. He did not commit any of the rapes that is a known; if he had been involved someone would have shouted out by now. What he is responsible for is the deplorable actions of the Church in hiding what happened. I'd guess that any reasonably capable lawyer could argue that as the cover-up had been going on for a very long time, probably at least as far back as pre-war, he did not encourage it or put it into practice but simply failed to stop it. Having spoken to clergy about this subject it is understandable what they tried to do. From a very ecclesiastical view, the clergy are servants of the Lord and above mortal law. Any sins committed are confessed and once given absolution they are no longer sinners. As the senior clergy have taken these confessions, Canon Law forbids them from disclosing what they heard, they cannot tell the authorities. So this left them with the only option of moving the people. It was a very difficult decision, because of the implications on absolute confidentiality to the penitent, for the Church to agree to start involving the authorities. Personally, I think it is a disgrace, but I took the time to find out why they hid it. It was not a malicious plot, but simply the clergy trying to act within God's will. Odd how things are done in the name of God so often turn out bad.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Also, as head of state, the pope is immune and has further protection under the conventions of diplomatic immunity.
I would like to see that comment explained further - specifically that the "head of state" is immune. It certainly appears that the ICC has gone after at least one head of state - Bashir.
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Nagy Vilmos wrote:
As the senior clergy have taken these confessions, Canon Law forbids them from disclosing what they heard, they cannot tell the authorities
I seriously doubt that all of the cases were discovered solely and only by confession.
It has been the excuse used many times.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Second Paragraph under 'Functional Immunity'.
Doesn't help. First it doesn't explain my example. Second it specifically says the following later in the same section... "The reasons commonly given for why this immunity is not available as a defence to international crimes is straight forward: (1) that is genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity are not acts of state. Criminal acts of the type in question are committed by human actors, not states;"
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Although you are correct about jurisdiction, I think it does show a growing disdain for the church and for the "men" that run it.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
I heard a man once say that the actions of man shouldn't be construed as acts of god. I say he's full of sh*t and so is the idea that the Pope can't be arrested. We've tried heads of state for war crimes before and their subordinates. Do I think the Pope will, no. To many vested interests in the scam of religion. If you don't believe in child molestation you shouldn't be a member of the catholic church. If you do you're a hypocrite and a supporter of it.
Well, who doesn't release stuff like that ? Microsoft software is just as bad. Christian Graus That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_