Objections to Christianity part deux
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If God exists, then how come he can let bad things happen? If he does exist, and lets bad things happen, then is he a god, or a twat?
============================== Nothing to say.
Erudite__Eric wrote:
then is he a god, or a twat?
Can't he be both? As I briefly alluded to in the thread below, one of the major problems I have with religion and god or gods (aside from the problem of 'belief') is that religions seem, in th emost part, to be mutually exclusive. Each is the right way and the only way, but if that is true what happens at the day of reckoning, whatever that may be, let's assume for now that one of the one's that has you going off to meet your maker is right. So you get there, but you picked one of the other ones. What happens at that point? Do you wait in line, get shown through a curtain, the wrong God leaps out and yells "surprise, you got it wrong, ooh bad luck". I do not see how that can possibly happen. The only way it would work is if all gods were real, and it is the mutually exclusive bit they got wrong when basically ms-interpreting an aggressive marketing campaign handed down by their particular god (or gods).
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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If God exists, then how come he can let bad things happen? If he does exist, and lets bad things happen, then is he a god, or a twat?
============================== Nothing to say.
God is an invention of man because man could not and can not handle the notion that life ends at death.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) -
God is an invention of man because man could not and can not handle the notion that life ends at death.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011)It's not just that. Gods have always been an explanation for whatever people could not explain. Sun, fire, weather, disease. As man understood more the need for gods was lessened and they changed in nature to what we have now. The more advanced the civilisation the less the need for gods. Religion is slightly different, the majority of people still need religion in some form, but with the need for gods reduced, often to nothing, then religions are replaced by pseudo religions such as celebrity or sport or technology. Something to live their life by on a daily / weekly basis.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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It's not just that. Gods have always been an explanation for whatever people could not explain. Sun, fire, weather, disease. As man understood more the need for gods was lessened and they changed in nature to what we have now. The more advanced the civilisation the less the need for gods. Religion is slightly different, the majority of people still need religion in some form, but with the need for gods reduced, often to nothing, then religions are replaced by pseudo religions such as celebrity or sport or technology. Something to live their life by on a daily / weekly basis.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
ChrisElston wrote:
The more advanced the civilisation the less the need for gods.
Text book examples and I do agree with you for the most part. When I see highly intelligent people, a lot of them, all over the world worshipping and praying to the tooth fairy, then I tend not to agree with this statement.
ChrisElston wrote:
The more advanced the civilisation the less the need for gods.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) -
ChrisElston wrote:
The more advanced the civilisation the less the need for gods.
Text book examples and I do agree with you for the most part. When I see highly intelligent people, a lot of them, all over the world worshipping and praying to the tooth fairy, then I tend not to agree with this statement.
ChrisElston wrote:
The more advanced the civilisation the less the need for gods.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011)It was a general statement obviously. I cannot understand what makes intelligent people believe just for the sake of belief, but as you say plenty do. My old boss was 'religious (Christian)' but was comfortable with people who were not, and didn't want to get into pointless arguments about it or try to justify it. Another senior developer here is also a prominent member of a church, even preaches there from time to time, and he is the same although the religiousness is slightly more obvious in him if that makes sense. I have nothing at all against either of these people, or indeed against anyone who believes in whatever they want to until they try to covert. Both of them were raised in this church, another friend became Christian well into his 20s. Can't remember how he discovered God now, but he did a lot of study into religious teachings and text, and considers himself a Christian outside of religion. He is also a deeply irritating person at times, although also shuns discussion unless someone draws him into it, which I guess is fair enough. We also have a Muslim lad working here who is heavily involved in his mosque and very religious, but again it is not something that is 'in the room' as it were, certainly none here have adapted their ways since he joined. Personally I find those who are preachy anti-religion just as irritating as those who are preachy for one.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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It was a general statement obviously. I cannot understand what makes intelligent people believe just for the sake of belief, but as you say plenty do. My old boss was 'religious (Christian)' but was comfortable with people who were not, and didn't want to get into pointless arguments about it or try to justify it. Another senior developer here is also a prominent member of a church, even preaches there from time to time, and he is the same although the religiousness is slightly more obvious in him if that makes sense. I have nothing at all against either of these people, or indeed against anyone who believes in whatever they want to until they try to covert. Both of them were raised in this church, another friend became Christian well into his 20s. Can't remember how he discovered God now, but he did a lot of study into religious teachings and text, and considers himself a Christian outside of religion. He is also a deeply irritating person at times, although also shuns discussion unless someone draws him into it, which I guess is fair enough. We also have a Muslim lad working here who is heavily involved in his mosque and very religious, but again it is not something that is 'in the room' as it were, certainly none here have adapted their ways since he joined. Personally I find those who are preachy anti-religion just as irritating as those who are preachy for one.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
ChrisElston wrote:
Personally I find those who are preachy anti-religion just as irritating as those who are preachy for one.
Take a virtual 5! They are indeed. Richard Dawkins is a case in point. Personally I describe myself as a Metaagnostic: A Christian / Muslim / insert-your-own-religion is a fanatic who believes god exists. An Atheist is a fanatic who doesn't believe god exists. An Agnostic is a fanatic who doesn't know if god exists. A Metaagnostic doesn't care if god exists, just wishes the rest of them would sod off and leave him alone...
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
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It was a general statement obviously. I cannot understand what makes intelligent people believe just for the sake of belief, but as you say plenty do. My old boss was 'religious (Christian)' but was comfortable with people who were not, and didn't want to get into pointless arguments about it or try to justify it. Another senior developer here is also a prominent member of a church, even preaches there from time to time, and he is the same although the religiousness is slightly more obvious in him if that makes sense. I have nothing at all against either of these people, or indeed against anyone who believes in whatever they want to until they try to covert. Both of them were raised in this church, another friend became Christian well into his 20s. Can't remember how he discovered God now, but he did a lot of study into religious teachings and text, and considers himself a Christian outside of religion. He is also a deeply irritating person at times, although also shuns discussion unless someone draws him into it, which I guess is fair enough. We also have a Muslim lad working here who is heavily involved in his mosque and very religious, but again it is not something that is 'in the room' as it were, certainly none here have adapted their ways since he joined. Personally I find those who are preachy anti-religion just as irritating as those who are preachy for one.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
ChrisElston wrote:
Personally I find those who are preachy anti-religion just as irritating as those who are preachy for one.
This is why I usually don't discuss the big three (religion, politics, money) in the workplace or in my private life much. I don't think any less of a person, as a person, if they want to believe in God or the trees in the forest.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) -
If God exists, then how come he can let bad things happen? If he does exist, and lets bad things happen, then is he a god, or a twat?
============================== Nothing to say.
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It was a general statement obviously. I cannot understand what makes intelligent people believe just for the sake of belief, but as you say plenty do. My old boss was 'religious (Christian)' but was comfortable with people who were not, and didn't want to get into pointless arguments about it or try to justify it. Another senior developer here is also a prominent member of a church, even preaches there from time to time, and he is the same although the religiousness is slightly more obvious in him if that makes sense. I have nothing at all against either of these people, or indeed against anyone who believes in whatever they want to until they try to covert. Both of them were raised in this church, another friend became Christian well into his 20s. Can't remember how he discovered God now, but he did a lot of study into religious teachings and text, and considers himself a Christian outside of religion. He is also a deeply irritating person at times, although also shuns discussion unless someone draws him into it, which I guess is fair enough. We also have a Muslim lad working here who is heavily involved in his mosque and very religious, but again it is not something that is 'in the room' as it were, certainly none here have adapted their ways since he joined. Personally I find those who are preachy anti-religion just as irritating as those who are preachy for one.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
ChrisElston wrote:
Personally I find those who are preachy anti-religion just as irritating as those who are preachy for one.
Yeah, I normally keep my thoughts to myself in that department (Hell, my best friend is a church-going Catholic), unless someone shoves their view in my face (Such as the thread below)... Once someone else throws the first verbal punch, I consider them a valid target :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
ChrisElston wrote:
Personally I find those who are preachy anti-religion just as irritating as those who are preachy for one.
Take a virtual 5! They are indeed. Richard Dawkins is a case in point. Personally I describe myself as a Metaagnostic: A Christian / Muslim / insert-your-own-religion is a fanatic who believes god exists. An Atheist is a fanatic who doesn't believe god exists. An Agnostic is a fanatic who doesn't know if god exists. A Metaagnostic doesn't care if god exists, just wishes the rest of them would sod off and leave him alone...
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
OriginalGriff wrote:
A Metaagnostic doesn't care if god exists, just wishes the rest of them would sod off and leave him alone
What do you call someone, like what I are, who believes, for a given value of 'believe', that there is a God but isn't too bothered what anyone chooses to believe? Can I be a demi-Christian?
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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ChrisElston wrote:
Personally I find those who are preachy anti-religion just as irritating as those who are preachy for one.
This is why I usually don't discuss the big three (religion, politics, money) in the workplace or in my private life much. I don't think any less of a person, as a person, if they want to believe in God or the trees in the forest.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011)I'm with you on this one. Believe(or disbelieve) what you will, just don't try to shove it down my throat and I will return that favor.
Let's face it, after Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF! Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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ChrisElston wrote:
Personally I find those who are preachy anti-religion just as irritating as those who are preachy for one.
Yeah, I normally keep my thoughts to myself in that department (Hell, my best friend is a church-going Catholic), unless someone shoves their view in my face (Such as the thread below)... Once someone else throws the first verbal punch, I consider them a valid target :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
unless someone shoves their view in my face (Such as the thread below)
Which thread are you speaking of?
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) -
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It was a general statement obviously. I cannot understand what makes intelligent people believe just for the sake of belief, but as you say plenty do. My old boss was 'religious (Christian)' but was comfortable with people who were not, and didn't want to get into pointless arguments about it or try to justify it. Another senior developer here is also a prominent member of a church, even preaches there from time to time, and he is the same although the religiousness is slightly more obvious in him if that makes sense. I have nothing at all against either of these people, or indeed against anyone who believes in whatever they want to until they try to covert. Both of them were raised in this church, another friend became Christian well into his 20s. Can't remember how he discovered God now, but he did a lot of study into religious teachings and text, and considers himself a Christian outside of religion. He is also a deeply irritating person at times, although also shuns discussion unless someone draws him into it, which I guess is fair enough. We also have a Muslim lad working here who is heavily involved in his mosque and very religious, but again it is not something that is 'in the room' as it were, certainly none here have adapted their ways since he joined. Personally I find those who are preachy anti-religion just as irritating as those who are preachy for one.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
ChrisElston wrote:
Personally I find those who are preachy anti-religion just as irritating as those who are preachy for one.
I think it's important, because fundamentalist religious people are determined to drag modern society back into the Dark Ages. Personally, I wish it didn't have to happen, but I think gagging yourself and others under the guise of 'tolerance' is wrong. The Islamic world used to be one of the most enlightened, and was responsible for carrying Greek philosophy and learning. It is easy to find exquisite Muslim mathematicians and astronomers and so on---although you haven't a chance in hell of remembering their names---and they all lived in a golden era for Islam. Look at it now, though. Dominated by fundamentalism and centuries behind the first world. That's actually the greatest threat posed by Islam to the West, stripping it of Enlightenment and knowledge, and it is the same threat posed by fundamentalist Christians.
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OriginalGriff wrote:
A Metaagnostic doesn't care if god exists, just wishes the rest of them would sod off and leave him alone
What do you call someone, like what I are, who believes, for a given value of 'believe', that there is a God but isn't too bothered what anyone chooses to believe? Can I be a demi-Christian?
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
Can I be a demi-Christian?
You can be a demi-hemi-semi-Christian if you want, just so long as you don't bang on my door to tell me all about it!
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
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Nagy Vilmos wrote:
Can I be a demi-Christian?
You can be a demi-hemi-semi-Christian if you want, just so long as you don't bang on my door to tell me all about it!
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
I think I'd quite like to be a C of E vicar if it wasn't for the believing in God thing. I quite like churches as buildings, you get a nice house, some clothes to dress up in, you don't have to go out and bug other people, and less and less people come round to bother you. When they do all they really want is a cup of tea, a few biscuits and a bit of a chat. Have a play around with the bells if you fancy it, no expectation to bugger choir boys. I think it could be quite a nice, restful procession.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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I think I'd quite like to be a C of E vicar if it wasn't for the believing in God thing. I quite like churches as buildings, you get a nice house, some clothes to dress up in, you don't have to go out and bug other people, and less and less people come round to bother you. When they do all they really want is a cup of tea, a few biscuits and a bit of a chat. Have a play around with the bells if you fancy it, no expectation to bugger choir boys. I think it could be quite a nice, restful procession.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
My elder brother was a vicar - it used to wind him up no end when I referred to Sunday as his one working day. :-D
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
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My elder brother was a vicar - it used to wind him up no end when I referred to Sunday as his one working day. :-D
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
For some reason my brother's best friends at school were sons of ministers, one C of E, the other Methodist. Both men were incredibly hard drinking, smoking and into football. And very good at swearing too. Just searched google for vicar. second hit "A vicar attended hospital with a potato stuck up his bottom"
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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For some reason my brother's best friends at school were sons of ministers, one C of E, the other Methodist. Both men were incredibly hard drinking, smoking and into football. And very good at swearing too. Just searched google for vicar. second hit "A vicar attended hospital with a potato stuck up his bottom"
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
"I was digging my allotment when a flock of Satanist ravens pecked off my clothes. While I was covering my modesty with my spade a Catholic Poodle barged into my legs and I fell heavily onto the newly turned earth. That was when the potato got stuck". Yes, right, we've heard it all before... :laugh:
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
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"I was digging my allotment when a flock of Satanist ravens pecked off my clothes. While I was covering my modesty with my spade a Catholic Poodle barged into my legs and I fell heavily onto the newly turned earth. That was when the potato got stuck". Yes, right, we've heard it all before... :laugh:
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
The real story is even more unbelievable; "The clergyman, in his 50s, told nurses he had been hanging curtains when he fell backwards on to his kitchen table. He happened to be nude at the time of the mishap" Because if you are going to be standing in your window, reaching up and trying to do DIY, that is the best time to be naked.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
