When we will stop programming?!
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Programmers are writing codes for a very long time now. When our computers will have the ability to write the code of the solutions by its own. I hope we can reach the point where the user will set in the front of the computer, and tell him that I need a software to do, 1,2,3,4. And the computer generate the application for him directly without going though the whole SDLC!. I think this could be soon specially in the business solutions, where the user should fill a list of business rules and the computer do the rest for him. This is something close to the application builders. But there is nothing in the market yet encapsulate what I am thinking of :( So when we will see something like this?
-- Hasan Al-Halabi Chief Operation Officer "COO" What's Next! for Business Solutions Queen Rania Str. Building 313, 4th Floor, Office 409 P.O.Box: 143882 Amman 11814, Jordan Mob: 962 7 97958819 Tel: 962 6 5334478 hasanhalabi@whats-nxt.com http://www.whats-nxt.com
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Programmers are writing codes for a very long time now. When our computers will have the ability to write the code of the solutions by its own. I hope we can reach the point where the user will set in the front of the computer, and tell him that I need a software to do, 1,2,3,4. And the computer generate the application for him directly without going though the whole SDLC!. I think this could be soon specially in the business solutions, where the user should fill a list of business rules and the computer do the rest for him. This is something close to the application builders. But there is nothing in the market yet encapsulate what I am thinking of :( So when we will see something like this?
-- Hasan Al-Halabi Chief Operation Officer "COO" What's Next! for Business Solutions Queen Rania Str. Building 313, 4th Floor, Office 409 P.O.Box: 143882 Amman 11814, Jordan Mob: 962 7 97958819 Tel: 962 6 5334478 hasanhalabi@whats-nxt.com http://www.whats-nxt.com
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Hasan Al-Halabi wrote:
So when we will see something like this?
It is called "Microsoft Access".
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
NO, I am not talking about this level, I am talking about another advance level. In MS Access, the user have to design the database, and then it will create the forms. But it does not allow workflows as example. I am talking about a software asking the user about the business rules he want by wizard, the user should not be aware about databases to create his app. Just the business rules as business rules as processes.
-- Hasan Al-Halabi Chief Operation Officer "COO" What's Next! for Business Solutions Queen Rania Str. Building 313, 4th Floor, Office 409 P.O.Box: 143882 Amman 11814, Jordan Mob: 962 7 97958819 Tel: 962 6 5334478 hasanhalabi@whats-nxt.com http://www.whats-nxt.com
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NO, I am not talking about this level, I am talking about another advance level. In MS Access, the user have to design the database, and then it will create the forms. But it does not allow workflows as example. I am talking about a software asking the user about the business rules he want by wizard, the user should not be aware about databases to create his app. Just the business rules as business rules as processes.
-- Hasan Al-Halabi Chief Operation Officer "COO" What's Next! for Business Solutions Queen Rania Str. Building 313, 4th Floor, Office 409 P.O.Box: 143882 Amman 11814, Jordan Mob: 962 7 97958819 Tel: 962 6 5334478 hasanhalabi@whats-nxt.com http://www.whats-nxt.com
Three out of five companies that I worked for had an application that could generate LOB-apps from "models". The most advanced of them used plain English as the language to create these models (based on NIAM). No, doesn't mean that we'll stop programming, on the contrary; it creates new needs.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
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Programmers are writing codes for a very long time now. When our computers will have the ability to write the code of the solutions by its own. I hope we can reach the point where the user will set in the front of the computer, and tell him that I need a software to do, 1,2,3,4. And the computer generate the application for him directly without going though the whole SDLC!. I think this could be soon specially in the business solutions, where the user should fill a list of business rules and the computer do the rest for him. This is something close to the application builders. But there is nothing in the market yet encapsulate what I am thinking of :( So when we will see something like this?
-- Hasan Al-Halabi Chief Operation Officer "COO" What's Next! for Business Solutions Queen Rania Str. Building 313, 4th Floor, Office 409 P.O.Box: 143882 Amman 11814, Jordan Mob: 962 7 97958819 Tel: 962 6 5334478 hasanhalabi@whats-nxt.com http://www.whats-nxt.com
I worked on an application like this over 15 years ago. The problem with them is twofold. First, they only really effectively work in a very narrow domain, ones with a well defined business problem. A bigger issue, though, is that users often don't know what they want out of an application. They may know what they want out of their little bit, totally ignoring the other users of a system.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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I worked on an application like this over 15 years ago. The problem with them is twofold. First, they only really effectively work in a very narrow domain, ones with a well defined business problem. A bigger issue, though, is that users often don't know what they want out of an application. They may know what they want out of their little bit, totally ignoring the other users of a system.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
I worked on an application like this over 15 years ago
I know that the idea is not new, but after all of these years, we should think in building one that solve the problems you are talking about. If the user himself does not know what he want, there are a lot of consultant working on let people know what they want. About the narrow domain, I am sure that the technology now is a lot better than 15 years ago. I think the open source community should take a lead in such a thing.
-- Hasan Al-Halabi Chief Operation Officer "COO" What's Next! for Business Solutions Queen Rania Str. Building 313, 4th Floor, Office 409 P.O.Box: 143882 Amman 11814, Jordan Mob: 962 7 97958819 Tel: 962 6 5334478 hasanhalabi@whats-nxt.com http://www.whats-nxt.com
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Three out of five companies that I worked for had an application that could generate LOB-apps from "models". The most advanced of them used plain English as the language to create these models (based on NIAM). No, doesn't mean that we'll stop programming, on the contrary; it creates new needs.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
The most advanced of them used plain English as the language to create these models
Does these applications generate a code to compile, or directly transform the rules into application?
-- Hasan Al-Halabi Chief Operation Officer "COO" What's Next! for Business Solutions Queen Rania Str. Building 313, 4th Floor, Office 409 P.O.Box: 143882 Amman 11814, Jordan Mob: 962 7 97958819 Tel: 962 6 5334478 hasanhalabi@whats-nxt.com http://www.whats-nxt.com
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
The most advanced of them used plain English as the language to create these models
Does these applications generate a code to compile, or directly transform the rules into application?
-- Hasan Al-Halabi Chief Operation Officer "COO" What's Next! for Business Solutions Queen Rania Str. Building 313, 4th Floor, Office 409 P.O.Box: 143882 Amman 11814, Jordan Mob: 962 7 97958819 Tel: 962 6 5334478 hasanhalabi@whats-nxt.com http://www.whats-nxt.com
Hasan Al-Halabi wrote:
Does these applications generate a code to compile, or directly transform the rules into application?
"Interpret" the rules. The company before that had an app that generated a database, and used reflection to generate a UI on the fly. Whether you generate code that get's compiled on the fly, compiled in advance, or is interpreted- is merely a technicality. The hard part is translating the input into something useable. Are you looking for something specific, or just curious to what's out there?
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
I worked on an application like this over 15 years ago
I know that the idea is not new, but after all of these years, we should think in building one that solve the problems you are talking about. If the user himself does not know what he want, there are a lot of consultant working on let people know what they want. About the narrow domain, I am sure that the technology now is a lot better than 15 years ago. I think the open source community should take a lead in such a thing.
-- Hasan Al-Halabi Chief Operation Officer "COO" What's Next! for Business Solutions Queen Rania Str. Building 313, 4th Floor, Office 409 P.O.Box: 143882 Amman 11814, Jordan Mob: 962 7 97958819 Tel: 962 6 5334478 hasanhalabi@whats-nxt.com http://www.whats-nxt.com
Fly at it. Why don't you start it off? I will watch with interest, precisely because I know how complicated it is.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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Hasan Al-Halabi wrote:
Does these applications generate a code to compile, or directly transform the rules into application?
"Interpret" the rules. The company before that had an app that generated a database, and used reflection to generate a UI on the fly. Whether you generate code that get's compiled on the fly, compiled in advance, or is interpreted- is merely a technicality. The hard part is translating the input into something useable. Are you looking for something specific, or just curious to what's out there?
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Are you looking for something specific, or just curious to what's out there?
Neither any of these, actually I am curious whether such a thing is worth to initiate an open source community for it or not.
-- Hasan Al-Halabi Chief Operation Officer "COO" What's Next! for Business Solutions Queen Rania Str. Building 313, 4th Floor, Office 409 P.O.Box: 143882 Amman 11814, Jordan Mob: 962 7 97958819 Tel: 962 6 5334478 hasanhalabi@whats-nxt.com http://www.whats-nxt.com
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Three out of five companies that I worked for had an application that could generate LOB-apps from "models". The most advanced of them used plain English as the language to create these models (based on NIAM). No, doesn't mean that we'll stop programming, on the contrary; it creates new needs.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
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Hasan Al-Halabi wrote:
Does these applications generate a code to compile, or directly transform the rules into application?
"Interpret" the rules. The company before that had an app that generated a database, and used reflection to generate a UI on the fly. Whether you generate code that get's compiled on the fly, compiled in advance, or is interpreted- is merely a technicality. The hard part is translating the input into something useable. Are you looking for something specific, or just curious to what's out there?
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
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Hermaine wrote:
huh?.. really?.. how come?
Our productivity increases continually. I didn't get less work when Delphi 3 or VB6 were introduced. On the contrary, platforms keep expanding. The tools we use become better, and, if all is well, we too, extend our knowledge. In the meantime there's ever more people interacting with computers, in ways that they didn't before, giving them new idea's for us to work on. We're programmers. Even if we develop something to automate our daily job, we'd just have more time to program other stuff. It's what we do :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
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Programmers are writing codes for a very long time now. When our computers will have the ability to write the code of the solutions by its own. I hope we can reach the point where the user will set in the front of the computer, and tell him that I need a software to do, 1,2,3,4. And the computer generate the application for him directly without going though the whole SDLC!. I think this could be soon specially in the business solutions, where the user should fill a list of business rules and the computer do the rest for him. This is something close to the application builders. But there is nothing in the market yet encapsulate what I am thinking of :( So when we will see something like this?
-- Hasan Al-Halabi Chief Operation Officer "COO" What's Next! for Business Solutions Queen Rania Str. Building 313, 4th Floor, Office 409 P.O.Box: 143882 Amman 11814, Jordan Mob: 962 7 97958819 Tel: 962 6 5334478 hasanhalabi@whats-nxt.com http://www.whats-nxt.com
We are trying to realize similar idea in one of our products. We already have developed GUI prototyping tool (called GUI Machine), that allows to creat interactive high-fidelity prototypes and thus to describe GUI and interface logic without coding. Now we working for UML-modeling tool. UML allows to describe the business logic and all aspects of the system. Soon we will integrate these tools (prototyping and UML-modeling) into 1 solution. With it you can creat prototype and UML-model for a complete description of the system (without coding) and our solution will generate code or even a complete application. I hope, we will be able to realize it.
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We are trying to realize similar idea in one of our products. We already have developed GUI prototyping tool (called GUI Machine), that allows to creat interactive high-fidelity prototypes and thus to describe GUI and interface logic without coding. Now we working for UML-modeling tool. UML allows to describe the business logic and all aspects of the system. Soon we will integrate these tools (prototyping and UML-modeling) into 1 solution. With it you can creat prototype and UML-model for a complete description of the system (without coding) and our solution will generate code or even a complete application. I hope, we will be able to realize it.
seems like something far far away tho.. :doh:
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Programmers are writing codes for a very long time now. When our computers will have the ability to write the code of the solutions by its own. I hope we can reach the point where the user will set in the front of the computer, and tell him that I need a software to do, 1,2,3,4. And the computer generate the application for him directly without going though the whole SDLC!. I think this could be soon specially in the business solutions, where the user should fill a list of business rules and the computer do the rest for him. This is something close to the application builders. But there is nothing in the market yet encapsulate what I am thinking of :( So when we will see something like this?
-- Hasan Al-Halabi Chief Operation Officer "COO" What's Next! for Business Solutions Queen Rania Str. Building 313, 4th Floor, Office 409 P.O.Box: 143882 Amman 11814, Jordan Mob: 962 7 97958819 Tel: 962 6 5334478 hasanhalabi@whats-nxt.com http://www.whats-nxt.com
One has to think outside the box for that. That means one has to abandon the path we have collectively taken for the 35 years or more. Specifically, abandon the crap called relational DBMS. Similarly, we must stop following Microsoft like lemmings. There was a news item in "Insider News" that referred to a blog that said "New is Glue". http://ardalis.com/new-is-glue[^] Take any Windows program and see how much glue you have in it. Figure out how to remove the glue. Follow the thought process all the way through. You will realize that we could have stopped programming around 1995.
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One has to think outside the box for that. That means one has to abandon the path we have collectively taken for the 35 years or more. Specifically, abandon the crap called relational DBMS. Similarly, we must stop following Microsoft like lemmings. There was a news item in "Insider News" that referred to a blog that said "New is Glue". http://ardalis.com/new-is-glue[^] Take any Windows program and see how much glue you have in it. Figure out how to remove the glue. Follow the thought process all the way through. You will realize that we could have stopped programming around 1995.
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Vivic wrote:
You will realize that we could have stopped programming around 1995.
..and you'd still be storing all your data in a flat file using VB4 :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
I am NOT a VB programmer. In fact, I have not programmed under any Windows programming language. That includes Visual C++, J++ (if you have heard of that), C#, etc., etc., etc. I spend my time thinking what kind of repetitive tasks programmers do -- and continue to do -- and ask how that can be changed. For me, the light bulb went on in 1987 though the Windows thing came about as a stable system around 1993 and I was attempting to put into practice my thoughts using Turbo Pascal and the Turbo Professional Library to provide me windowing -- granted, character-oriented -- support. That is why I put a date of 1995. I said think about how much glue there is in any Windows program -- and I didn't mean only "NEW is Glue". Ok, did that switch on the light bulb? As to the crap called RDBMS -- which is taught in all the colleges, universities and technical institutes so that we can all become slaves of Oracle/Sybase/SQLServer, what none of you realize is that Oracle on IBM mainframes was implemented as a set of KSDS data sets, which provides unique primary keys and multiple non-unique secondary keys for any record. Anything other than that in a RDBMS is syntactic sugar that gets translated into these fundamentals. But, thinking is not the forte of the current crop of programmers who run after the latest and greatest scripting language/framework/any other bullcrap peddled by software vendors.
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One has to think outside the box for that. That means one has to abandon the path we have collectively taken for the 35 years or more. Specifically, abandon the crap called relational DBMS. Similarly, we must stop following Microsoft like lemmings. There was a news item in "Insider News" that referred to a blog that said "New is Glue". http://ardalis.com/new-is-glue[^] Take any Windows program and see how much glue you have in it. Figure out how to remove the glue. Follow the thought process all the way through. You will realize that we could have stopped programming around 1995.
Vivic wrote:
One has to think outside the box for that.
Perhaps by coming up with a new marketing phrase that means nothing?
Vivic wrote:
That means one has to abandon the path we have collectively taken for the 35 years or more. Specifically, abandon the crap called relational DBMS.
Joke right? You are supposing that the OP question can be achieved and is not now a reality solely because people use relational databases? I suppose you figure that people that use NoSQL are already 'computer whispers'?
Vivic wrote:
There was a news item in "Insider News" that referred to a blog that said "New is Glue". http://ardalis.com/new-is-glue[^]
Take any Windows program and see how much glue you have in it. Figure out how to remove the glue.
Follow the thought process all the way through.Following through I can only suppose that you are claiming Unix developers using Java are now 'computer whispers'?
Vivic wrote:
You will realize that we could have stopped programming around 1995.
I suspect that some people should have stopped programming then. And since then some others probably shouldn't have started in the first place. But that is because they have no aptitude for it. But other than fantasy (not science fiction) novels no one can stop programming now. And based on current research there doesn't seem to be any indications it will be possible even in any mid term future scenario. I wouldn't be surprised that due to complexity issues it will never occur.
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I am NOT a VB programmer. In fact, I have not programmed under any Windows programming language. That includes Visual C++, J++ (if you have heard of that), C#, etc., etc., etc. I spend my time thinking what kind of repetitive tasks programmers do -- and continue to do -- and ask how that can be changed. For me, the light bulb went on in 1987 though the Windows thing came about as a stable system around 1993 and I was attempting to put into practice my thoughts using Turbo Pascal and the Turbo Professional Library to provide me windowing -- granted, character-oriented -- support. That is why I put a date of 1995. I said think about how much glue there is in any Windows program -- and I didn't mean only "NEW is Glue". Ok, did that switch on the light bulb? As to the crap called RDBMS -- which is taught in all the colleges, universities and technical institutes so that we can all become slaves of Oracle/Sybase/SQLServer, what none of you realize is that Oracle on IBM mainframes was implemented as a set of KSDS data sets, which provides unique primary keys and multiple non-unique secondary keys for any record. Anything other than that in a RDBMS is syntactic sugar that gets translated into these fundamentals. But, thinking is not the forte of the current crop of programmers who run after the latest and greatest scripting language/framework/any other bullcrap peddled by software vendors.
Vivic wrote:
I am NOT a VB programmer.
In fact, I have not programmed under any Windows programming language.
That includes Visual C++, J++ (if you have heard of that), C#, etc., etc., etc.I can only suppose that you haven't programmed in anything then. Because certainly C++, smalltalk, python, perl, ruby and even Cobol, Fortran and Lisp are "Windows programming language[s]". Also includes Java, especially so, given that Java was released first on windows. (And with a thread model that was so dependent on windows that it took several years to correctly implement something in Solaris.) Perhaps you use Snobol or Algol? I don't recall seeing those on windows.
Vivic wrote:
As to the crap called RDBMS -- which is taught in all the colleges, universities and technical institutes so that we can all become slaves of Oracle/Sybase/SQLServer, what none of you realize is that Oracle on IBM mainframes was implemented as a set of KSDS data sets, which provides unique primary keys and multiple non-unique secondary keys for any record. Anything other than that in a RDBMS is syntactic sugar that gets translated into these fundamentals.
Yes but everyone knows that that is just a conspiracy by the Illuminati to subjugate the world and that the incredibly vast amount of research on relational databases is all fabricated by super genius aliens that come from Betelgeuse.