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Death penalty speech

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  • C Chris Austin

    Jeremy Falcon wrote: Sure, not everyone who's killed is guilty, but there are a hell of a lot more that are. Nothing's perfect Sorry to disagree with you Jeremy. But, I think you've missed the point of the system. Sure it is not perfect but is a complete and utter failure if one innocent man or woman dies. How is their death any less disgusting or reprehensible? Jeremy Falcon wrote: We should abandon death row as it is now and let the families hurt by these people slowly torture them to death. What about the families of those incorrectly murdered by the state? Should the jurors and judges who sentenced them be subjected to the same madness that you suggest? By your reasoning, shouldn't they be put into a prision system where they are raped and beat? Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.

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    Anna Jayne Metcalfe
    wrote on last edited by
    #34

    Definitely. State sponsored murder is still murder. :mad: Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

    "Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
    - Marcia Graesch

    Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++

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    • C Chris Losinger

      did you read the speech? Jeremy Falcon wrote: Are you even man enough to get really pissed off about it to the point of wanting to kill him? this is about being a man? it's manly to kill innocent people who were convicted because the public defender didn't read the case? what is accomplished by picking a random guy off the street and killing him for something he didn't do? what message does that send? Jeremy Falcon wrote: Sure, not everyone who's killed is guilty would you walk into a courthouse and assume the guilt of an unsolved murder, knowing full well that you would receive the death penalty - even though you are innocent? if not, you have no right to condemn other innocent people to die for crimes they didn't commit. the gov's actions have nothing to do with the fairness of the death penalty, and everything to do with the fact that its application in Illinois is arbitrary and is being applied to people who are totally innocent. -c

      I'm not the droid you're looking for.

      ThumbNailer

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      Anna Jayne Metcalfe
      wrote on last edited by
      #35

      Well said Chris. :rose: Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

      "Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
      - Marcia Graesch

      Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++

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      • P Paul Watson

        Christian Graus wrote: I thought it was generally accepted that if you went to prison and DIDN'T get killed in the name of 'justice', that you spent your time making numberplates. Ahhh, ok I did not know that. In SA prisoners are taught more feminine skills. Like making doileys and plastic chickens. Anything really to get them to make things tourists would want... which is a bit odd considering you would think we would want ex-cons as far away from tourists as possible.

        Paul Watson
        Bluegrass
        Cape Town, South Africa

        My humble photographic tribute to our world[^]

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        KaRl
        wrote on last edited by
        #36

        :wtf: do you do with plastic chicken ? :omg:, not :eek: ? (:rolleyes: )

        Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

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        • J Jeremy Falcon

          Chris Losinger wrote: if only every politician could do one good thing while they're in office... What if one of the guys on death row raped and killed your wife or daughter? Then what? Are you even man enough to get really pissed off about it to the point of wanting to kill him? Or would you just let it be. Sure, not everyone who's killed is guilty, but there are a hell of a lot more that are. Nothing's perfect. We should abandon death row as it is now and let the families hurt by these people slowly torture them to death. Jeremy Falcon Imputek Excrement escapes everyone - even elders.

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          Vuemme
          wrote on last edited by
          #37

          What if one of the guys on death row raped and killed your wife or daughter? Then what? Are you even man enough to get really pissed off about it to the point of wanting to kill him? I don't know if that is about being man, but I'll be so angry that I would kill anyone that is remotely suspected to be involved in the murder, without being much careful about his innocence! That's why it's better to keep the people who love the victims out of the inquiry. I don't know if killing the culprit will make me feel better, but I know for sure that this will not bring back to me my wife or my daughter. Sure, not everyone who's killed is guilty, but there are a hell of a lot more that are. Are you even human enough to get pissed off about that? -- Looking for a new screen-saver? Try FOYD: http://digilander.iol.it/FOYD

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          • K KaRl

            :wtf: do you do with plastic chicken ? :omg:, not :eek: ? (:rolleyes: )

            Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

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            Paul Watson
            wrote on last edited by
            #38

            KaЯl wrote: do you do with plastic chicken ? LOL! No not that! That is a rubber chicken, plastic chickens are different! Basically people sell plastic chickens along side the road here. They make them out of black bags (rubbish bags), shopping bags, bits of plastic and wire. The end result is something that looks like a chicken. No idea what you are supposed to do with them other than put them in your house and "admire" it. I have not bought one.

            Paul Watson
            Bluegrass
            Cape Town, South Africa

            My humble photographic tribute to our world[^]

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            • S Shog9 0

              Why? (btw: is there some issue with your sig these days? i can't seem to load it anymore :( [edit: 'k, it's started working again, nevermind :-O])

              ---

              Shog9 The siren sings a lonely song - of all the wants and hungers The lust of love a brute desire - the ledge of life goes under

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              David Wulff
              wrote on last edited by
              #39

              Because every human, no matter how logical and thoughtful, seeks revenge when they have been wronged, and the murder or the rape of a loved one is about as large a trigger as you could get. Punishment and rehabilitation back into a "safe" member of society, or even the life long incarceration of a person is no place for the family/persons lust for revenge. I'm sickened people could even imagine that could be called "justice" - even in parts of the world where a person is stoned to death for adultery or their hand is cut off for stealing, at least the punishment is for the act not for the sick gratification the people who were wronged. (that has no effect on it though it is clearly still part of it) The KKK kill for gratification - isn't it about time you stopped your government from doing the same too? Shog9 wrote: (btw: is there some issue with your sig these days? i can't seem to load it anymore [edit: 'k, it's started working again, nevermind ]) Don't be embarrassed - she's a temperamental bitch at the best of times and seems to like taking the occasional coffee break at the most inconvenient of times.

              David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

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              • K KaRl

                :wtf: do you do with plastic chicken ? :omg:, not :eek: ? (:rolleyes: )

                Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

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                Anna Jayne Metcalfe
                wrote on last edited by
                #40

                I don't know about the plastic variety but I once saw an entertainer at a medieval show (Ok, this was in the pub after the public had gone!) juggle rubber chickens...it was hilarious! :laugh: Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

                "Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
                - Marcia Graesch

                Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++

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                • A Anna Jayne Metcalfe

                  I don't know about the plastic variety but I once saw an entertainer at a medieval show (Ok, this was in the pub after the public had gone!) juggle rubber chickens...it was hilarious! :laugh: Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

                  "Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
                  - Marcia Graesch

                  Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++

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                  KaRl
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #41

                  As for paul use, the market seems really tiny :-D

                  Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

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                  • C ColinDavies

                    If we are going to execute people, why don't we also still have amputations as a punishment ? If a person steals something from a store is it barbaric to amputate the offending appendage ? If it is barbaric then isn't executing people for offenses like murder also barbaric ? Regardz Colin J Davies

                    Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin

                    You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.

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                    Shog9 0
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #42

                    Well, amputation as punishment for stealing seems a bit counter-productive to me, but amputation for, say, cutting someone's hand off is sort of appealing. Perhaps this could be expanded a bit, so that say, someone running a mine would get a few pounds of carbon shoved down his throat every time a minor died of lung diseases. Might be interesting...

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                    Shog9 The siren sings a lonely song - of all the wants and hungers The lust of love a brute desire - the ledge of life goes under

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                    • D David Wulff

                      Because every human, no matter how logical and thoughtful, seeks revenge when they have been wronged, and the murder or the rape of a loved one is about as large a trigger as you could get. Punishment and rehabilitation back into a "safe" member of society, or even the life long incarceration of a person is no place for the family/persons lust for revenge. I'm sickened people could even imagine that could be called "justice" - even in parts of the world where a person is stoned to death for adultery or their hand is cut off for stealing, at least the punishment is for the act not for the sick gratification the people who were wronged. (that has no effect on it though it is clearly still part of it) The KKK kill for gratification - isn't it about time you stopped your government from doing the same too? Shog9 wrote: (btw: is there some issue with your sig these days? i can't seem to load it anymore [edit: 'k, it's started working again, nevermind ]) Don't be embarrassed - she's a temperamental bitch at the best of times and seems to like taking the occasional coffee break at the most inconvenient of times.

                      David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

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                      Shog9 0
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #43

                      David Wulff wrote: Because every human, no matter how logical and thoughtful, seeks revenge when they have been wronged, and the murder or the rape of a loved one is about as large a trigger as you could get. Good answer. It *is* important that those serving justice are not influenced by a desire for vengance, though for the good of society it is sometimes necessary that they act to avenge others. David Wulff wrote: The KKK kill for gratification - isn't it about time you stopped your government from doing the same too? Yes. It's also about time they stopped imprisoning people for gratification, enacting social welfare programs for gratification, starting wars for gratification, levying taxes / enabling tax breaks for gratification... :rolleyes: "Government of & by the people" may be all well and good, but occasionally i'd like to see some politicians act a *little* less human, at least where human vices are concerned... :|

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                      Shog9 The siren sings a lonely song - of all the wants and hungers The lust of love a brute desire - the ledge of life goes under

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                      • S Shog9 0

                        Before i go any further, i want to make it clear that i'm not commenting on the situation in Illinois, which is most certainly fucked. I rather think George Ryan should have commuted the sentences earlier in his term, rather than appearing to run out on the problem, but that is beside the point. KaЯl wrote: The consequences are not the same. No. They are not. In fact, i'm having a bit of difficulty thinking of many similarities between imprisonment and execution at all. One takes part of a life, the other takes all of it, once it's gone, it's gone, and there is no way to give it back. But execution cannot be stopped half-way, whereas a life sentence can. Execution has at least the appeal of relevance to the crime of murder - "eye for an eye" and all that. Given it's severity and finality, it should *not* be taken lightly - but i firmly believe in some cases it is appropriate, and in the end we must trust the justice system to use it wisely. Imprisonment, however, is the Wonder Drug of punishments - everything from forgetting to pay a speeding ticket to mass murder can get you imprisoned. We've built prisons of every shape and size: women's prisons, juvy prisons, SuperMax prisons, low risk prisons, high risk prisons... I just drove back from Cañon City, CO, a place surrounded by prisons containing everyone from Charles Manson to a local pastor convicted of writing bad checks. Does it help? Does it hurt? Is it cost-effective, or are we bleeding like a stuck pig from all these prisoners? Who cares? Lock 'em up, and ignore them - justice is served... right? A friend of mine was imprisoned for three years on drug charges - by her own account, it saved her life, as it removed her from destructive influences and provided her with counseling to help her deal with the problems causing her addictions. Certainly, this is an admirable result! Is this our goal also with murderers? Rapists? Thieves? Are these crimes even necessarily related to one another? Is there any good reason why we should pretend they should be punished in the same way? As a programmer, this system has a strange appeal to me - a uniform method of punishment, with classifications based on the type and severity of the crime. Why, how easy is that to codify! And if someone complains about the State being "soft on crime", just revise the codes to up sentences by a few years! But then, if people were simple machines we wouldn't be having all these problems in th

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                        Lost User
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #44

                        Shog9 wrote: Care must be taken when using either the hammer or the axe, and care must be taken also to avoid using the hammer when the axe is what is needed. This is so true. I found myself trying to drive nails in with an axe and splitting wood with a hammer. I failed miserably in both tasks. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002

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                        • L Lost User

                          Shog9 wrote: Care must be taken when using either the hammer or the axe, and care must be taken also to avoid using the hammer when the axe is what is needed. This is so true. I found myself trying to drive nails in with an axe and splitting wood with a hammer. I failed miserably in both tasks. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002

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                          Shog9 0
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #45

                          Michael Martin wrote: I found myself trying to drive nails in with an axe Accidentally whacking your thumb takes on a whole new level of horror, eh? :eek:

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                          Shog9 The siren sings a lonely song - of all the wants and hungers The lust of love a brute desire - the ledge of life goes under

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