Trigger happy

KaRl

Pilots Ignored Rules on Attacks, Commander Says[^] It seems it's rather a tradition. In quiet every book I've read about the aerial war during WWII over Western Europe there's a sample of this kind of attack

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Megan Forbes

Tragic. Having never been to war I can only speculate, but I would imagine that being sent to a foreign place, with a chance of losing your life for you country, must do strange things to the human mind. While this behaviour is inexusable, it seems that society as a whole, and the military in particular, should shoulder some of the responsibility for these occurances.

A pack of geeks, pale and skinny, feeling a bit pumped and macho after a morning of strenuous mouse clicking and dragging, arriving en masse at the gym. They carefully reset the machines to the lowest settings, offer to spot for each other on the 5 lb dumbells, and rediscover the art of macrame while attempting to jump rope. -Roger Wright on my colleagues and I going to gym each day at lunch

KaRl

Megan Forbes wrote: it seems that society as a whole, and the military in particular, should shoulder some of the responsibility for these occurances I think so. That's true an accident may happen, but in this case these guys didn't follow explicit orders. It's not only a big lack of discipline, but also IMHO a consequence of the "cow boy attitude", shoot first, think next.

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Megan Forbes

I agree with you completely. But I didn't mean I thought it happened as an accident. I meant that by the time this incident occured they probably had such hatred (as a result of a mixture of fear and indoctrination) for the people on the ground that disobeying such orders was probably easier for them than obeying the order to leave peacefully would have been. But as I said, I've never had to go to war, so I may be way off base here.

A pack of geeks, pale and skinny, feeling a bit pumped and macho after a morning of strenuous mouse clicking and dragging, arriving en masse at the gym. They carefully reset the machines to the lowest settings, offer to spot for each other on the 5 lb dumbells, and rediscover the art of macrame while attempting to jump rope. -Roger Wright on my colleagues and I going to gym each day at lunch

Michael A Barnhart

I would like to hear other pilots opinions here. As for the Col.s comments making a judgement sitting thousands of miles away and not being shot at, looks to be more of a "make the pilots take the blame option" vs "fixing the problem and taking responsibility." As for the shoot first comment. They did request twice before claiming self defence and had been ordered to investigate. Why did an awacs plane not have the location of a training area and send the guys in? If I was in their seats that very fact would cause me to lean to the assumption they were not friendly. "I will find a new sig someday."

ColinDavies

KaЯl wrote: It seems it's rather a tradition. It appears that way. From what I have read of WW1 some ground forces would take pot shots at there own planes believing something similar. I think it also shows a lack of respect for lives that you can not see close up. Reading the linked article, I find it hard to believe that the pilots this time have a defence. Regardz Colin J Davies

Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin

You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.

KaRl

I would too, and if possible from different countries. It has to be especially difficult to identify a terrestrial target, but that's why the orders were. Un ordre est un ordre. The involved pilots acted as warriors, not as soldiers. I was astonished to read in differents books the number of "incidents" between US fighters and other allied pilots during WWII, and I wonder if it's not an habit.

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

KaRl

Colin Davies wrote: I find it hard to believe that the pilots this time have a defence. If only! Do you remember the italian gondola's cable cut by an E-6 flying too low, killing 20?[^]

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Michael A Barnhart

KaЯl wrote: I wonder if it's not an habit. My guess is human nature. You are used to seeing your craft, so anything that looks different is assumed to be the enemy. Now is this included in training? Especially Reservist units. They may very well have thousands of hours but how much recent practic and new methods of engagement? "I will find a new sig someday."

KaRl

It's true it was a National Guard unit. Despite I like the concept, is their training suffisant enough to be involved in a hot war :confused:?

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop