Any Comments on the rest of Bush's State of the Union Speech?

Rob Graham

Some points that might deserve comment: 1. $15B initiative to fight AIDS in Africa 2. Hydrogen Fueled cars initiative 3. $400M for mentoring disadvantaged teens. 4. $300M for treating drug addiction. I would be interested to put aside Iraq for a moment and hear what others think of any or all of the above. Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell

Chris Austin

I just want to know where all this mony is coming from. If it means deficit spending then I see it as crap. What Would Uncle Steve Do?. -Michael Martin

Rob Graham

Clearly there will be deficits in the beginning. With both sides dead set on tax cuts, the only hope for anything else wrapped up in the Reagan theories that lower taxes will ultimately mean greater revenue. It worked last time... just to late for GHB. Of course the theory does have its flaws: at a zero tax rate you won't get infinite revenue... Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell

Jason Henderson

You're talking about the theory behind the "Laffer curve". Here's more info: Clickety 1[^] Clickety 2[^] Another Clickety[^]

Jason Henderson
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Roger Wright

Rob Graham wrote: 1. $15B initiative to fight AIDS in Africa That was totally out of the blue, and I'm all in favor of it. An entire continent is doomed without some sort of outside help, and any help we can offer will be a great boon to the people of that region. I only hope that it passes swiftly, and that other nations join in the effort. Rob Graham wrote: 2. Hydrogen Fueled cars initiative I've never understood why we dropped support for energy efficient transporatation in the first place. When the Arabs stopped oil shipments in 1973 to inflate the world market price, the domestic oil companies took the opportunity to double the prices. The government backed them with a propaganda campaign that claimed that there will be no petroleum left on the planet in twenty years. Along with that, we had various tax incentives to invest in and use alternative energy sources. At the time, all were far too costly to be practical, but much good research was done with the monies freed up by the tax breaks. The breaks were later cancelled by the tax-and-spend party in order to add to the smoke and mirrors illusion of a great prosperity allowing new spending. We're now thirty years down the road, and there's no sign of us running out of petroleum supplies, so having been lied to once, people are likely to be a bit less gullible, and this may be a hard sell. A better approach may be to hawk it as a way to reduce dependency on foreign suppliers - in this climate, that should be an easy pitch to put over. However it's accomplished, I'm in favor of it. Fuel cell technology has come a long way, with current energy density values dwarfing those previously acheived. Rob Graham wrote: 3. $400M for mentoring disadvantaged teens. A drop in the bucket, but it's a start. The real problem is in the generation raising them, and it's a much harder problem to solve. They're on welfare, on drugs, drunks and tramps, and they don't give a damn where little Johnnie is at 11 PM, or what he learned in school today. That's hard to overcome, but some great successes have come out of programs like Big Brothers, where at-risk kids are paired with adult mentors who care about them, and demonstrate values that have enduring worth. We have a program here in Mohave County in which kids are assigned to an adult mentor when they first get in trouble, but before they are in serious trouble with the law. These adults call them regularl

Chris Losinger

1. good. finally. i hope it actually makes a difference. this is actually the first good idea i've heard out of his mouth. 2. probably nobody remembers that Al Gore was reamed a new one for suggesting this exact thing, back in the 2000, in a foreward to one of his books: "We have a partnership with the American auto industry ... to develop cars that achieve three times today's mileage with the same pricing, comfort and safety; the companies and research scientists are making remarkable progress toward revolutionary change in the design and development of fuel cell vehicles. " what did Gore get for his ideas? he got a rash of press from rabid Republican airheads claiming that Gore advocated getting rid of the automobile. A Salon.com link i think it's a fine idea. but it's also a softball, no-risk idea that felt a lot like a shout-out to environmentalists. he could propose putting monkeys on Mercury in 25 years, and there's no political risk. a 25 year timeline really absolves him of any responsibility. so, i'm glad he said it, since it at least puts the idea out there. but, i hope there's some actual meat in the proposal. 3. fine, as long as religion isn't a (required) part of it. 4. ditto. but, i think i read that the drug money is tied to faith-based crap. opiate of the masses, i guess is better than just opiate. ;P -c

A | B - it's not a choice.

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Paul Watson

Rob Graham wrote: 1. $15B initiative to fight AIDS in Africa Thanks for the money, really appreciate it and don't think of me as being ungrateful but... Money is not going to help. The US could send in $1trillion dollars and it would not help. Or rather, money on it's own is not going to help. First off very little of the $15bn is going to reach people who actually have AIDs. Past donations have shown how it is wittled down as it passes through each layer of beuracracy. When it reaches the man on the street it is enough to buy him some condoms and a loaf of bread. What we need is expertise, skills... people. We need educators, administrators and doctors to come down here, skip our government totally and help us sort the problem out. Give $15bn to a good team of US and European doctors and teachers and the problem will be much further on it's way to being solved.

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Roger Wright wrote: Using a feather is kinky; using the whole chicken is perverted!

Lost User

How about licenses to produce the drugs to treat people with HIV ? Then you don't spend as much money to get the same results, so it isn't there to get lost in the process. Of course, if you're in the US and 5 people die from something then the government talks about breaking the license on Cipro....... The tigress is here :-D

Paul Watson

Trollslayer wrote: How about licenses to produce the drugs to treat people with HIV ? Then you don't spend as much money to get the same results, so it isn't there to get lost in the process. Don't let the African rhetoric that US drug companies are intentionally screwing us over get to you. There are drugs available at reasonable prices. The problem is our government. They say AZT and the like are dangerous and have terrible side effects. Yes, they are dangerous, of course they are, but isn't AIDs well, just a tad more dangerous? Cancer drugs are terribly dangerous, I don't see our government blocking them. Neviropeen (or however you spell it) prevents mother to child transmission of HIV. But our government won't let but a few trial hospitals use it. Thousands of kids are now being born with HIV, something that a R50 dose of that drug would stop. Money is not the problem. SA is not actually that poor, we can afford it. But it is distribution and education that needs attention. You could ship a thousand containers full of free drugs to SA and it would not help because they would sit there in quarantine, stopped by the government. Pathetic, scary.

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Roger Wright wrote: Using a feather is kinky; using the whole chicken is perverted!

KaRl

Roger Wright wrote: $15B initiative to fight AIDS in Africa :wtf:, how is it possible to be such hypocrits "US has taken Brazil to the World Trade Organization, charging that free distribution of drugs to people with AIDS discriminates against US commercial activity" [^] It would been more efficient to authorize the production at low cost of medicaments. The lobby of pharmaceutical industries has blocked this initiative. Business always prevails on Human Life, this donation won't correct that. For the moment, I see the 15 billions of dollars getting right back in the pockets of the (US) pharmaceutical industries. Where's the generosity?

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KaRl

Paul Watson wrote: There are drugs available at reasonable prices. They are perhaps cheap for SA, but what about the West African / Saharian countries? They can't even feed their whole population.

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Paul Watson

KaЯl wrote: They are perhaps cheap for SA, but what about the West African / Saharian countries? They can't even feed their whole population. Money is not going to help them either. First off they are poor for a reason, so pumping more money in is just going to go down the same channels. Places as bad as that need a UN* team to go in armed with drugs and education. They need to setup a sustainable** infrastructure which the people, with slowly diminishing help, run. HIV is not going to be eradicated even with the best of sweeps, so the infrastructure is needed for when it tries to come back. SA has enough that we don't need a full UN team to do it. We need a rallying point for all the headless chicken HIV combatters already here though. * UN as in the ideal it should be ** Aid money (Aid, not AIDs) is not sustainable, it gets spent and then two months later everyone is just as fucked up as before.

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Roger Wright wrote: Using a feather is kinky; using the whole chicken is perverted!

KaRl

Paul Watson wrote: Money is not going to help them either I think that too. IMHO the money is lend to finally be used to buy medicare to US industries, a way to use public money to help private companies. I would have prefer the opposite, private companies helping the public. I know I'm a dreamer :)

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Anna Jayne Metcalfe

Chris Losinger wrote: 2. probably nobody remembers that Al Gore was reamed a new one for suggesting this exact thing, back in the 2000, in a foreward to one of his books: Why does this not surprise me...:confused: Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
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Anna Jayne Metcalfe

KaЯl wrote: I think that too. IMHO the money is lend to finally be used to buy medicare to US industries, a way to use public money to help private companies. I would have prefer the opposite, private companies helping the public. Call me cynical, but most private companies would rather line their own pockets than help either the public or their employees. :( Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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Rob Graham

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Call me cynical, but most private companies would rather line their own pockets than help either the public or their employees. Unfortunately true, but then that is the only reason private companies exist at all: to make more money for their owners. The fact that they do any good at all for others or for their employees is a side effect driven in part by "market forces" (Slavery is illegal, you have to pay employees, sometimes with "fringe" benefits like medical care and retirement benefits). Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell

Rob Graham

Chris Losinger wrote: i think it's a fine idea. but it's also a softball, no-risk idea that felt a lot like a shout-out to environmentalists. he could propose putting monkeys on Mercury in 25 years, and there's no political risk. a 25 year timeline really absolves him of any responsibility. Actually I think the proposed timeline was more like 16 years. This is still way too long IMO, even though the proposal was ubiquotous avaliability in that time frame, and there is a large support infrastructure that will be needed (hydrogen distribution) to make it work. Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell

Roger Wright

Bush is responding to the public feeling here - our populace is damned tired of being charged $300 for a pill that costs $.03 to manufacture. Public opinion is changing, and the attitude of government has to respond to that if it is to survive. Bush specifically mentioned that the $12,000/year it costs to provide the AIDS treatments at market price is intolerable when the true cost is $300/year. I think he is sincere in his indignation about this; it would be consistent with his unbringing as a Christian in Texas. But you're right, the pharmaceutical lobby is a powerful one, and it will be a battle! Nobody wants to read a diary by someone who has not seen the shadow of Bubba on the prison shower wall in front of them!
Paul Watson, on BLOGS and privacy - 1/16/2003

KaRl

Rob Graham wrote: (Slavery is illegal, you have to pay employees, sometimes with "fringe" benefits like medical care and retirement benefits). It's a scandal limiting the business by such communist rules :laugh:

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