"Florida school board fires high school teacher who gave condom demonstration"

Anna Jayne Metcalfe

Nicholas, who also had two of his students pretend to be sex therapists to answer other students' questions, was not present at Thursday's board meeting because his wife was in labor. But he has maintained he never got proper sex education training — and was never told condoms weren't allowed in classrooms. Nicholas has also said his intent was to simulate situations his students might face, because he believes teaching safe sex benefits students. Officials began their investigation of the incident in mid-December after some parents whose children told them about the condom lesson complained. "It's those kinds of demonstrations that we don't want in our schools," school superintendent Dan White said. Full story here[^] Now maybe it's just me but it sounds like this guy was doing exactly the right thing. Surely its better that kids are informed rather than ignorant. What do you all think? Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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David Wulff

I say god help Florida if this sort of positive education is being outlawed. The hands-on condom-on-a-carrot display at school was enough to keep my dick firmly in my hands pants till the bell rang. We didn't have mood lighting though - that was left for RE classes. I learnt that condoms make great explosive devices too if you half blow one up with air (now that was fun on it's own) and then top it up with a few seconds held firmly over the gas tap when teacher was in her office... Waaaay better than the old gas-in-a-pop-bottle experiment because you got a sort of mini mushroom cloud forming when the condom burst and threw the flaming gas outwards. Prooved a bit more difficult though explaining the rather odd smell of gas and burnt latex when teacher came back to see what all the screaming was about. :rolleyes:

David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

Chris Austin

I don't know. I try to be a middle of the road type of person but I think he went a bit over the top. If he had planned for shuch a demo shouldn't he have looked into the school rules and consulted the parents first....seems just like that would have been far more sensible. What Would Uncle Steve Do?. -Michael Martin

Anna Jayne Metcalfe

Now, how did I know you'd be the first to respond Dave? :laugh: Seriously though I agree totally. Ignorant kids are a perfect way of increasing the rates of teenage pregnancies and (even worse) abortions. :mad: Plus, kids can have so much fun with condoms as you quite rightly point out. ;) Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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Anna Jayne Metcalfe

I'm curious - what do you think was "over the top"? From the description, it just sounds like he tried to present it in a way which was entertaining and the kids could relate to. The school policy appears to be to leave the kids totally ignorant (i.e. let them figure it out for themselves). I wonder who (the sacked teacher or the school heads) is more irresponsible? Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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David Wulff

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Now, how did I know you'd be the first to respond Dave? Erm, I honestly don't know... ** Dave glances nervously at the carrot by his side ** Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Ignorant kids are a perfect way of increasing the rates of teenage pregnancies and (even worse) abortions I agree with the first part, but I'm not so sure about the last. I think allowing parents to abort teenagers would be a great idea. :rolleyes: Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Plus, kids can have so much fun with condoms as you quite rightly point out. They are like the legal alcohol for 14-17 year olds. You can pick them up in any public toilet for a few quid* and all you need is an assortment of flamable household chemicals, a bicycle pump and a willing friend and you can keep yourself occupied for hours. I wonder what my parents would have thought if they knew I was spending much of my weekly pocket money on contraceptives. :eek: * and you can get condoms there quite cheaply too. Another favourite pass time when I was I suppose about 15 was getting those small metal model cars, smashing out the windscreens and pouring tipex and/or lighter fluid into them until it was about to overflow. Then you precariously light it (all kids carry cigarette lighters) and play toy car crashes in the local bus shelter. ** sigh ** To this very day the immortal words "David Wulff was here 94-98" are still etched onto the inside of the Kentisbeare bus shelter. I quite miss all that now I'm supposed to act all big and mature. :((

David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

Chris Austin

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I'm curious - what do you think was "over the top"? I think the use of props and mood music. Mainly because, I know that kids aren't stupid and I rember what It was like to be a horrny 17 year old ... lets face it using a condom isn't hard(punn intended). Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: The school policy appears to be to leave the kids totally ignorant (i.e. let them figure it out for themselves). I agree that bennifits of safe sex and contraceptives should be taught. But again I think he took it too far. Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I wonder who (the sacked teacher or the school heads) is more irresponsible? Tough one. Ultimately I think that this stuff should covered by the children's parents and blaming the school is just another excuse. And his excuse of not knowing just sounds like an attempt at "It is eaiser to ask for forgiveness than permission" that I am sure we have all tried. What Would Uncle Steve Do?. -Michael Martin

Shog9 0

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: What do you all think? I think if his wife is in labor, then the demonstration likely won't do much for those kids... :rolleyes: Ok, seriously - schools, public or otherwise, have one primary reason for existing (as much as they'd like to believe otherwise): to teach kids things their parents want them to know but can't teach themselves. Not to teach what The State, The Elite, or The Loudest Voices in The Community want them to know. Now, this may not happen often (or ever), but in most places the parents still have some say in what their children are being taught. From the sound of things, Mr. Nicholas did not consult the parents, or even school officials beforehand. Therefore, both have every reason to be upset. Whether the kids are better off informed or not is not relevant. You are a parent yourself Anna, and i've little doubt there aren't a few things you'd rather not have your children informed of, or would at least prefer to be warned beforehand so you can talk to them yourself. The man overstepped his authority and should be reprimanded.

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Shog9 I see the way the salesmen stare into the sun I stood and watched them as they fell off one by one...

Mike Gaskey

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Surely its better that kids are informed rather than ignorant. What do you all think? It is the parent's job, not the state's. Teaching condom use gives implicit permission for sex outside of marriage. Whoa! you say. Sorry, still believe it is a parent's responsibility. The parents may be teaching abstinence and classroom instruction then runs against what the parents are teaching. Mike

Stan Shannon

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: What do you all think? I would want him fired if he tried such an improptu demonstration in my child's school. The school system has no business subverting my right as a parent to teach my child what I think they need to know about such issues. Unless the parents in the community specifically permit such a demonstration for their children the school system should not assume the responsibility to do so on its own. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle

Chris Losinger

Mike Gaskey wrote: Teaching condom use gives implicit permission for sex outside of marriage the hell it does. married people can use a condom, too.

A | B - it's not a choice.

ThumbNailer

Anna Jayne Metcalfe

In all honesty, if that had happened at my kids school I wouldn't have been upset at all - in fact I'd have been angry with the school if they'd refused to allow such a demonstration to happen. Whether the teacher was daft not to conult on school policy isn't in doubt I think...my question was whether it should be tought, and whether the guy should have been dismissed for what seems to me like raising a subject the school doesn't want taught. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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Kant

1. Condom 2. Mood lighting 3. Music 4. A Banana Audience : Ninth-graders End Result : Fired! What else the teacher is expecting? X| Kant Sonork-100.28114 Don't :beer: and Drive.

Chris Austin

Mike Gaskey wrote: Teaching condom use gives implicit permission for sex outside of marriage. I've never bought that. What Would Uncle Steve Do?. -Michael Martin

Anna Jayne Metcalfe

All I can say is that we all know how seriously we think many parents take that sort of responsibility. Why should sex eduction be any different from (say) Maths, English etc.? Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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Mike Gaskey

Chris Losinger wrote: married people can use a condom, too If they're in the ninth grade and married then I don't care, but it doesn't change the fact that this is the parent's responsibility. Mike

Mike Gaskey

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Why should sex eduction be any different from (say) Maths, English etc.? What would you say about a class on the use and maintenance of a hand gun? Mike

Anna Jayne Metcalfe

As a parent myself I can understand that. On the general issue - do you think kids should receive sex education at school...even on an opt-in/opt-out basis? When I was in secondary school we did (as part of a Human Biology course), but the parents had the right to opt out. To my knowledge, no-one did. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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Anna Jayne Metcalfe

I can't see how you'd do such a demonstration without at least the major props...and a banana or carrot is probably infinitely preferable to a more realistic alternative such as a dildo when dealing with kids. As for the so-called "mood lighting" and music, so what? It's probably a damn good way to get the kids attention and make the think instead of giggling uncontrollably. If he was playing blue movies to them, that would be an entirely different thing. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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Shog9 0

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: In all honesty, if that had happened at my kids school I wouldn't have been upset at all Probably not. But my point was that there are most likely other subjects you'd rather, if not teach yourself, at least have a heads-up on when your kids will be exposed to. Whether such subjects would ever be taught in a UK school i couldn't say; it maybe you are one of the lucky parents whose views align perfectly with those of the teaching profession. But i doubt it... Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: my question was whether it should be taught, and whether the guy should have been dismissed for what seems to me like raising a subject the school doesn't want taught. He is an employee of the school, who are employed by the state, who are (*cough* nominally *cough*) employed by the public. If at your place of employment you start work on a project your employer doesn't want you doing, you don't think you'd deserve a rebuke?

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Shog9 I see the way the salesmen stare into the sun I stood and watched them as they fell off one by one...