"Florida school board fires high school teacher who gave condom demonstration"

[Anna Jayne Metcalfe]

I can see your point, but I'd opt for having the schools teach it unless the parents objected. At least that way, the kids would all receive the same information, and the kids of parents who ducked their responsibilities wouldn't be left ignorant. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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[Anna Jayne Metcalfe]

Hah! You've tried it then? :laugh: Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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[Miszou]

Mike Gaskey wrote: The parents may be teaching abstinence and classroom instruction then runs against what the parents are teaching. This reminds me of a controversial anti-drug campaign that ran in my town a few years back. There were posters all over the place basically saying, "We know you're going to do drugs and we can't stop you, but we're here for you when it all goes wrong". The idea being that no matter how much you bang on kids about not doing drugs (or having sex) they're going to be doing it anyway, so you might as well get to them afterwards and save time and money on the front end...

[David Wulff]

Shog, get off your stool mate. :|

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David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

[Shog9 0]

'k, so that was a bit much i guess. :-O I'm not trying too hard to be a prick about this, but it's a topic that i consider to be extremely important - should the day come where i'd need to be responsible for raising children, i'll most likely be far too busy to think these things through clearly, so i try to do it now. Anna has made quite a few good points in this thread, and for the most part i think it's been a good discussion - so i guess it just pissed me off to see a "ah, well, but Americans are a bunch of prudes, so this is no more than i'd expect" post. But it wasn't a reply to me, so i suppose i should have just walked away rather than getting mean about it. *tsk* *tsk*

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Shog9 I see the way the salesmen stare into the sun I stood and watched them as they fell off one by one...

[Jorgen Sigvardsson]

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: What do you all think? I think conservative people should wake up and smell the coffee. -- Ignorant people upsets me.

[Anna Jayne Metcalfe]

I sit next door to the canteen and the coffee's free! Might explain a lot lol. :laugh: Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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[Jorgen Sigvardsson]

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I sit next door to the canteen and the coffee's free! Shhhhh! :~ Someone might actually be so bold and call you a liberal! (As if it is a bad thing) Seriously though, if I had kids in school, I'd be pretty damn upset if they weren't taught to protect themselves during sex. The problem with conservative people is that they believe they control their kids in every way. The fact is that in many cases they don't. Kids are strong individuals, and as such they do what they want or what's expected of them (let's not forget peer pressure). Given a romantic setting, and all feels right, the (boy or girl) and (boy or girl)1 will have sex. It's as simple as that. And this is when they should remember what they've been taught, and bring out that condom. The message must be hammered into the kids - just like they hammer 1 + 1 = 2 into them. 1 Just trying to cover for all possible (human) sexual preferences. -- Ignorant people upsets me.

[Kant]

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I think conservative people should wake up and smell the coffee. Smell the coffee? You mean like this one :java: ;P Kant Sonork-100.28114 Don't :beer: and Drive.

[Kant]

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but ninth grade is about age 13-14 isn't it? My take is from different point of view. I was born and brought up in India, where there is no thing called "Sex Education". ( in 80's) Personally I know it only when I was 18. (in late 80s) Obviously by watching blue(?) movies with my friends in my freshman year in College ;) Now you know the reason behind the India's population. ( 2nd largest population in the world..) ;P Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Our sex education classes were in our 3rd year at secondary school - about age 13. I don't know about my kids (BTW Americans), but being myself brought up the way I told you above, I am not sure I would educate them about sex at that age (13 or 14 or 18). :~ Kant Sonork-100.28114 Don't :beer: and Drive.

[Konstantin Vasserman]

Everyone in Russia were required to take basic military training while in high school. It did not make anyone any more violent than people in the rest of the world who did not have the training. However, I do know a thing or two about guns and stuff like that while majority of the world does not. At the same time sex was a forbidden subject. Not only they did not teach it, but the whole society pretended that there wasn't such thing as sex. Result? Abortions and broken lives all over the place. A lot of it because children had no clue about sex. Knowledge does not hurt, ignorance does.

[Chris Maunder]

Shog9 wrote: Ok, seriously - schools, public or otherwise, have one primary reason for existing (as much as they'd like to believe otherwise): to teach kids things their parents want them to know but can't teach themselves. Exactly. How many parents are comfortable teaching their kids how to use a condom? It was far better for us when we were in year 7 to have seen and practiced with one and not be intimidated by them, than to get to the point where one was very much needed and be either too freaked out to get one or too uninformed to use one. Shog9 wrote: i've little doubt there aren't a few things you'd rather not have your children informed of, One of those things is probably "the opposite sex" but unfortunately schools and hormones and things you'd rather little Johnny didn't know just don't mix. The kids are going to find out either from older friends, brothers, movies, gossip or experimentation. You either teach and enforce abstinance (which is impracticle) or you accept reality and give the kids knowledge that may save their lives. Sorry - but one thing that really offends me is keeping people ignorant as a means to 'protect' them. [Edit: An that teddy bear on the fireman's pole saying 'I'm really hot for you' is really, really disturbing] cheers, Chris Maunder

[Chris Maunder]

Not if the lesson is entitled 'how to use a condom once you are married'. Safe sex, birth control and traditional values can go hand in hand (excepting certain religions) cheers, Chris Maunder

[Anna Jayne Metcalfe]

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Someone might actually be so bold and call you a liberal! If they did they'd be wrong...if anything I'm a libertarian ...rather different (and not aligned with any political position). We've 3 major political parties here (Labour, Democrat and Conservative) and in the past I've voted for all of them...it really depends on the issues at the time. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Seriously though, if I had kids in school, I'd be pretty damn upset if they weren't taught to protect themselves during sex. The problem with conservative people is that they believe they control their kids in every way. The fact is that in many cases they don't. Kids are strong individuals, and as such they do what they want or what's expected of them (let's not forget peer pressure). Given a romantic setting, and all feels right, the (boy or girl) and (boy or girl)1 will have sex. It's as simple as that. And this is when they should remember what they've been taught, and bring out that condom. The message must be hammered into the kids - just like they hammer 1 + 1 = 2 into them. I feel the same. When the time comes I'll do everything I can to ensure they're responsible and prepared...but I'm sure if I offered to show them how to put a condom on they'd baulk at it...that's probably better coming from someone outside of the family. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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[Anna Jayne Metcalfe]

Kant wrote: My take is from different point of view. I was born and brought up in India, where there is no thing called "Sex Education". ( in 80's) Personally I know it only when I was 18. (in late 80s) Obviously by watching blue(?) movies with my friends in my freshman year in College Now you know the reason behind the India's population. ( 2nd largest population in the world..) That's exactly my point. How responsible were you and your friends when you first became sexually active? Kant wrote: I don't know about my kids (BTW Americans), but being myself brought up the way I told you above, I am not sure I would educate them about sex at that age (13 or 14 or 18). Well I don't know about you, but by the time I was 14 I was very aware of my own sexuality and that of others. Kid's notice. Arguably, even 13-14 is too late. They start learning (driven by instinct) as soon as puberty hits! One point that's often overlooked is that knowing isn't the same as doing. Although I was clued up by the time I was 14, I didn't lose my virginity until 20. I also think that teaching kids how difficult childbirth and parenting are helps put them off...but that's a topic for another discussion. ;) Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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[Mike Gaskey]

Chris Maunder wrote: One of those things is probably "the opposite sex" That is called projecting, projecting your beliefs or experiences, assuming everyone else will have the same. Chris Maunder wrote: Sorry - but one thing that really offends me is keeping people ignorant as a means to 'protect' them. And I find it equally offensive that someone else, be it church, state or school system, believes they have the right to determine how my child comes to learn about something this important. Mike

[Chris Maunder]

Mike Gaskey wrote: That is called projecting, projecting your beliefs or experiences, assuming everyone else will have the same. I don't see that I'm projecting in this case. The point I was trying to make is that some parents (hence the 'probably') wished that they never had to give their child 'The Talk'. A failed attempt at being light-hearted I guess. If you are one of those parents who is open about sex and willing to sit down with your children and explain it all to them then excellent. One thing that I think is relavent here is that the class was year 9. My personal opinion - and you're welcome to disagree - is that by Year 9 kids already know about this stuff and if you haven't sat down and talked to your kids about this then they've more than likely learned the basics elsewhere. And I find it equally offensive that someone else, be it church, state or school system, believes they have the right to determine how my child comes to learn about something this important. I can see your point. I guess what it comes down to is timing - if you have already discussed the issue with them then is it wrong for another educational body to go over the salient points again? Is Year 9 too early for them (or the parent) to discuss sex? When is the correct time? Is it a parent's perogative to make this decision or can they only hope to get in there early enough (I don't know what the stats are on how old kids are when they first lose their virginity in the US but I know it's a reasonably young age elsewhere). cheers, Chris Maunder