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  • A Anna Jayne Metcalfe

    I agree with Paul. I don't see any way of sorting out the mess by "diplomatic" means unless Iraq fully co-operates (do you seriously believe that will happen?), and certainly nothing from any of the nations opposing military action that would be effective. At best, all I can see happening if they get their way is a delay before the whole thing blows up again. The Iraqi government as been given free reign to stick two fingers up at the UN for far too long. One thing I would say though is that the US & UK governments have handled this abysmally from a PR perspective, and their obvious willingness to bypass the UN at the outset probably hasn't helped. I can quite understand France and Germany being shitty as a result! Of course, if world governments hadn't got cold feet in 1991 it may all have been resolved now. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

    "Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
    - Marcia Graesch

    Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++

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    Christian Graus
    wrote on last edited by
    #11

    Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: One thing I would say though is that the US & UK governments have handled this abysmally from a PR perspective, and their obvious willingness to bypass the UN at the outset probably hasn't helped. Yes, the PR angle has been an utter joke, and it's been obvious that the US government doesn't give a *damn* what the rest of the world thinks of it. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
    C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
    It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003

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    • B Brad Jennings

      Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: their obvious willingness to bypass the UN at the outset probably hasn't helped. I think the US and UK are getting impatient with the UN because of the beaurocracy. The US and UK want action now and if they wait for the UN it could take years. I'm not saying it's right for the US and UK to bypass the UN, I'm just offering a viable explanation. I think we should take care of the problem as peacefully as possible but it looks like war is coming no matter what we decide is the best plan of action. Brad Jennings "if the golden arches shut shop, where else are the VB people going to get work." - Colin Davies

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      Anna Jayne Metcalfe
      wrote on last edited by
      #12

      Sadly it does. I do think the US's obvious willingness to bypass the UN at the outset has probably alienated other nations though. From here, it was appalling. Had they tried harder at the outset rather than being so gung-ho, things might have been different. Too late now, though. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

      "Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
      - Marcia Graesch

      Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++

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      • C Christian Graus

        Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: One thing I would say though is that the US & UK governments have handled this abysmally from a PR perspective, and their obvious willingness to bypass the UN at the outset probably hasn't helped. Yes, the PR angle has been an utter joke, and it's been obvious that the US government doesn't give a *damn* what the rest of the world thinks of it. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
        C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
        It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003

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        Anna Jayne Metcalfe
        wrote on last edited by
        #13

        Ain't that the truth. :~ Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

        "Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
        - Marcia Graesch

        Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++

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        • A Anna Jayne Metcalfe

          Sadly it does. I do think the US's obvious willingness to bypass the UN at the outset has probably alienated other nations though. From here, it was appalling. Had they tried harder at the outset rather than being so gung-ho, things might have been different. Too late now, though. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

          "Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
          - Marcia Graesch

          Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++

          B Offline
          B Offline
          Brad Jennings
          wrote on last edited by
          #14

          Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I do think the US's obvious willingness to bypass the UN at the outset has probably alienated other nations though. I totally agree, that's the main reason I think my country (US) should have been a little more patient. Brad Jennings "if the golden arches shut shop, where else are the VB people going to get work." - Colin Davies

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          • P Paul Riley

            Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I don't see any connection between Valentines and war. We've already had one Valentine's Day massacre, why not another? Paul And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking
            Racing around to come up behind you again
            The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
            Shorter of breath, one day closer to death
            - Pink Floyd, Time

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            Jorgen Sigvardsson
            wrote on last edited by
            #15

            Paul Riley wrote: We've already had one Valentine's Day massacre, why not another? Forgive my ignorance, but I have no clue what you're referring to. :confused: -- "It is amazing how f-ing crazy I really am."

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            • J Jorgen Sigvardsson

              Paul Riley wrote: We've already had one Valentine's Day massacre, why not another? Forgive my ignorance, but I have no clue what you're referring to. :confused: -- "It is amazing how f-ing crazy I really am."

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              Paul Riley
              wrote on last edited by
              #16

              Sorry. Start here: St. Valentine's Day Massacre[^] Paul And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking
              Racing around to come up behind you again
              The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
              Shorter of breath, one day closer to death
              - Pink Floyd, Time

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              • P Paul Riley

                Sorry. Start here: St. Valentine's Day Massacre[^] Paul And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking
                Racing around to come up behind you again
                The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
                Shorter of breath, one day closer to death
                - Pink Floyd, Time

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                Jorgen Sigvardsson
                wrote on last edited by
                #17

                If you're making an analogy, then Bush is a gangster dressing up like a cop. And Saddam will walk away unharmed. Was that analogy intended, or just the fact that it was a massacre just like a war against Iraq would be? -- "It is amazing how f-ing crazy I really am."

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                • J Jorgen Sigvardsson

                  If you're making an analogy, then Bush is a gangster dressing up like a cop. And Saddam will walk away unharmed. Was that analogy intended, or just the fact that it was a massacre just like a war against Iraq would be? -- "It is amazing how f-ing crazy I really am."

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                  Paul Riley
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #18

                  Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: or just the fact that it was a massacre just like a war against Iraq would be? Yep. No clever analogies today, I'm afraid. You asked the connection between war and St. Valentine's Day, my answer was "massacre". Wasn't that clever in the first place and then it lost it's impact because you had no idea what I was talking about :laugh:. Ho hum. Paul And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking
                  Racing around to come up behind you again
                  The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
                  Shorter of breath, one day closer to death
                  - Pink Floyd, Time

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                  • M Maximilien

                    Since both France and Germany are backed into a corner... What if France and Germany decide to say to the US and British, "Fuck Off! we don't want to participate in a war we think is too dangerous than building pressure on the Iraki regime and forcing Saddam to leave" ? I'm not suggesting a veto against a UN resolution, that would be stupidly crazy; but a strong opposition. I think it could show the rest of the world that there's a less war-monger, or more peacefull alternative and maybe for just the sake of global debate it might be a good thing; the need to have an alternative view of the world is always important, and to have different level of solutions for world stabilities. Will other nations rise up and join those countries ? South America ? Asia ? Autralia, New Zealand? India ? Africa ? The rest of Europe ? Max

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                    Michael A Barnhart
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #19

                    Maximilien wrote: What if France and Germany decide to say to the US and British (cut sentence) From my perspective I find the fact the France and Germany having the greatest financial ties with Saddam makes there support for going slow as questionable as those who claim the US is only in this for the money. The same can be said for both. As for the comment on more aircraft surveillance on one of the threads that has not happened due to the statement the safety of the aircraft will not promised, does indicate the lack of cooperation. So I say let Blix do the report. Of all of the evidence that justifies action I have seen to date the interim report of his is #1. IMO "I will find a new sig someday."

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                    • M Michael A Barnhart

                      Maximilien wrote: What if France and Germany decide to say to the US and British (cut sentence) From my perspective I find the fact the France and Germany having the greatest financial ties with Saddam makes there support for going slow as questionable as those who claim the US is only in this for the money. The same can be said for both. As for the comment on more aircraft surveillance on one of the threads that has not happened due to the statement the safety of the aircraft will not promised, does indicate the lack of cooperation. So I say let Blix do the report. Of all of the evidence that justifies action I have seen to date the interim report of his is #1. IMO "I will find a new sig someday."

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                      Maximilien
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #20

                      Michael A. Barnhart wrote: As for the comment on more aircraft surveillance on one of the threads that has not happened due to the statement the safety of the aircraft will not promised, does indicate the lack of cooperation. And that could be the biggest gamble that France could take; make the recon. deal with Irak. Imagine, sending a couple of planes over Irak as recon. ( I can't even spell the whole word, some help me! ), and it doesn't get shot down and take pictures of stuff that is suppose to be there or not supposed to be there and help with the inspection. But on the other hand, if it get shot down, France wold be pissed off, and I wouldn't pay much for Irak!. Michael A. Barnhart wrote: So I say let Blix do the report. Of all of the evidence that justifies action I have seen to date the interim report of his is #1. IMO I agree! I await with great expectations his next report. Max.

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                      • M Maximilien

                        Michael A. Barnhart wrote: As for the comment on more aircraft surveillance on one of the threads that has not happened due to the statement the safety of the aircraft will not promised, does indicate the lack of cooperation. And that could be the biggest gamble that France could take; make the recon. deal with Irak. Imagine, sending a couple of planes over Irak as recon. ( I can't even spell the whole word, some help me! ), and it doesn't get shot down and take pictures of stuff that is suppose to be there or not supposed to be there and help with the inspection. But on the other hand, if it get shot down, France wold be pissed off, and I wouldn't pay much for Irak!. Michael A. Barnhart wrote: So I say let Blix do the report. Of all of the evidence that justifies action I have seen to date the interim report of his is #1. IMO I agree! I await with great expectations his next report. Max.

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                        Michael A Barnhart
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #21

                        Maximilien wrote: And that could be the biggest gamble that France could take; make the recon. deal with Irak. And also a very great show of support for the path they want to take. I imagine it would give a lot of credit to taking more time if done. "I will find a new sig someday."

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