Do software developers really need degrees?
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
School has always been about getting a piece of paper which is why many engineering disciplines used to work off the basis of apprenticeship. However - as is also the case with money - the problems arise when people place value on the piece of paper not the underlying meaning of that paper. In the case of a college education the worth of the piece of paper is as proof that you can spend considerable amounts of time doing pointless work for people whose only real qualification is that they are much older than you. This is a perfect metaphor for work - especially if you end up working for me :-) :doh:
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
Nope. I don't have one. And I'm very highly paid.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
No, but then again neither do burger-flippers.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
In Canada, there are two different post-secondary education streams: university and college. A university grants a degree; a college grants a diploma. Getting my diploma, I spent a significant portion of my time learning programming languages and writing code; my friends that got CS degrees spent a signifiicant portion of there time learning theory, but didn't necessary write code. I have been actively employed as a developer for almost 30 years.
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
Of course! I for instance can't work in more than 22 Celsius...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
20 years ago I only needed to complete two classes to obtain an Associates of Applied Science (AAS) in Computer Info. Systems (2 year degree). I got a job working in IT and ever since I've been building my career and learning new technology so I never finished the 2 courses. At one point, about 5 years into my IT career I asked the company I worked for if obtaining the AAS would make any difference in my employment, title or pay. Answer: "No." So I never did finish the two classes: 1.) Management 205 2.) COBOL II
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20 years ago I only needed to complete two classes to obtain an Associates of Applied Science (AAS) in Computer Info. Systems (2 year degree). I got a job working in IT and ever since I've been building my career and learning new technology so I never finished the 2 courses. At one point, about 5 years into my IT career I asked the company I worked for if obtaining the AAS would make any difference in my employment, title or pay. Answer: "No." So I never did finish the two classes: 1.) Management 205 2.) COBOL II
newton.saber wrote:
COBOL II
Saved yourself a world o' irritation there. Well dodged!
TTFN - Kent
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Of course! I for instance can't work in more than 22 Celsius...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
It's good to know your limits! (and I definitely agree with you)
TTFN - Kent
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
No. Yes. Maybe. It depends.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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No. Yes. Maybe. It depends.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
Actually, I think the lyric is Maybe. Perhaps. Yes.[^] :) But you do have the definitive answer to every article titled with a question (like the one I'm about to post).
TTFN - Kent
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No. Yes. Maybe. It depends.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
mark merrens wrote:
No. Yes. Maybe. It depends.
I think you are right and I myself have never been proven wrong on any issue where no one else knows my opinion. :) You are 110% right though. Maybe even upwards of 112%. Seriously, totally agree with your total spot-on rightness. Because some people who get degress are [terrible] [great] [programmers] and those who do not are also. :D
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
I've been a developer for just over 10 years. I have no degree. I've had numerous recruiters after me and numerous job offers. So I'll cast my vote into the "No" column on this one. The degree may help get you that first job, but after that it's all on you, your abilities, and your work ethic.
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School has always been about getting a piece of paper which is why many engineering disciplines used to work off the basis of apprenticeship. However - as is also the case with money - the problems arise when people place value on the piece of paper not the underlying meaning of that paper. In the case of a college education the worth of the piece of paper is as proof that you can spend considerable amounts of time doing pointless work for people whose only real qualification is that they are much older than you. This is a perfect metaphor for work - especially if you end up working for me :-) :doh:
Duncan Edwards Jones wrote:
proof that you can spend considerable amounts of time doing pointless work for people whose only real qualification is that they are much older than you
Actually most of the people I do work for are younger than me.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
I think it depends on whether you and prospective employers consider software development a means or an end. I have several degrees (and about to add one more, hopefully), but none of them are in IT or CS or anything related. My degrees are in engineering. Software development is a means to an end, learned as needed.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
I agree with the original statement: "Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything." Some people with a degree don't even know simple bitwise arithmetic or how a hashtable works. (because their education doesn't teach them) Some people without a degree can do amazing things. (because they figure out how themselves)
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
Heck no. 1. Was a litigation attorney in Texas 30 year ago. 2. Moved to California. 3. Took two extension classes (C programming and the UNIX operating system) at a local university. 4. Took the California bar exam. 5. Took a job programming at a small cross compiler company, wrote the ANSI C runtime library, a RAM disk controller and a command driver. 6. Found out I had passed the bar exam and was qualified to practice law in California. 7. Never looked back. All you need is some knowledge, a lot of passion, and a knack for it.
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
The bachelors degree is a white collar union card*. You can have the skills to do the job without one; but in a lot of places you're not going to be able to get in the door without one. Depending on what/where you want to work this may or may not be an issue. * Think electricians/plumbers/etc hiring hall, not UAW/UMWA/SEIU/etc.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Just because you have a college degree doesn’t mean you have learned anything. That is the main problem I have with most traditional education programs today. School has become much more about getting a degree—a piece of paper—than it has about actually learning something of value.
"The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"
John Somnex wrote:
If you have a degree that you worked hard for and paid a large amount of money for, you are more inclined to believe that piece of paper has more value than it really does. If you don’t have a degree, you are probably more inclined to believe that degrees are worthless and completely unnecessary—even though you may secretly wish you had one. So, whatever side you fall on, I am going to ask you to momentarily suspend your beliefs—well, biases really—and consider that both views are not exactly correct, that there is a middle-ground somewhere in between the two viewpoints where a degree isn’t necessarily worthless and it isn’t necessarily valuable either.
Hard to believe people get paid to write this kind of stuff. :| /ravi
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