My tasteless joke, and rambling thoughts about the survey

[ColinDavies]

Marc Clifton wrote: So what are we all doing just "programming"? When are we going to get off our butts and DO something revolutionary? Doing revolutionary stuff isn't like it used to be Marc. :-) Something I have noticed is that programmers seem to the ones short on creativity. There seems to be a lot of programmers that can code an idea when the have it explained to them. But they seem to lack the original thought bit. I think a lot of it comes from working in an environment where being creative is not endorsed much. Now most projects have to be more than the efforts of one man and so the big companies are dominating the employment of coders. Regardz Colin J Davies

Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin

I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign' Rob Manderson wrote:

[Michael A Barnhart]

Marc Clifton wrote: But it did get me wondering, programming for a living really isn't where it's at. Yes, it can be lucrative, but what have you got for it at the end of the day? A paycheck and not much else. Well my first rule is if you are doing any job just for the money you are in the wrong profession. Do something you enjoy. For myself the satisfaction that I receive that I have done something unique or just a good job is worth a lot. Marc Clifton wrote: It seems that we should be able to apply that intelligence more for our own direct benefit, instead of lining the pocket of "the man", be that Bill, George, or whoever else you work for. Back to the previous comment. If the only thing you feel is for your benefit is money, then ..... Marc Clifton wrote: So what are we all doing just "programming"? For myself I am not just programming. I am dreaming on ways to implement designs and make them something others want to use. Marc Clifton wrote: When are we going to kick "the man" and his intellectual property agreements that basically makes us into slaves (my favorite is the one that says that any invention, even if I come up with it on my own time, over the weekend, while taking a shower--and believe me, I've thought up a few inventions while taking a shower--is owned by whatever fat slob I'm currently working for), Most companies have that clause and it is so employees whom they have paid for years finally develop something, they do not sell it to the competition. (It does go both ways) For myself when I have done something that is not in my job description I have asked for and received a copyright release. It was not difficult but did take a few weeks to get processed. Also one issue many overlook is the company also takes the liability that you as an individual does not as an employee but does as a contractor. Many years ago my father decided he wanted to make it on his own. And yes he was financially successful but to be honest I seldom saw him after that change. I promised I would not do that to my kids. Marc Clifton wrote: DO something for OURSELVES??? We are back to what this means. I help set up and maintain systems for several local charities. I have been quite happy with my returns. Skip explanation of embarrassing hug from neighbor in grocer. "I will find a new sig someday."

[Paul Watson]

Marc Clifton wrote: well, except maybe the VB ones You had me up to there. Then you lost all inspirational value. Sorry, try a different joke next time. :)

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.

[Andreas Saurwein]

Marc Clifton wrote: Why aren't there more female programmers? Ok, I will resist to answer here. I had my lengthy discussions already in the Lounge as some may remember :) Marc Clifton wrote: When are we going to kick "the man" and his intellectual property agreements that basically makes us into slaves (my favorite is the one that says that any invention, even if I come up with it on my own time, over the weekend, while taking a shower I have a simple agreement with my company which grants my rights on anything I do outside the office. They pretty gladly signed it.

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Shaken, stirred, or strained through a diaper, nothing can make a martini palatable. Roger Wright, Soapbox

[Marc Clifton]

I think the question is when are you going to do something for OTHERS??? But I have! 23 thought provoking articles, more than 2000 messages of which 3 might actually have been useful to someone else, and several hours on Awasu which probably doesn't compare at all to what other people have contributed to Awasu. Oh I see. I have my priorities backwards! :-D Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"

[Marc Clifton]

You might feel that because you work as an independent contractor, you're working for yourself, but if you do $5000 worth of worth for your client who then uses it to generate $10000 of income for themselves, where's the difference? Except in one case (my adult entertainment client) most of what I develop is inhouse use only--engineering and accounting programs). What galls me is that the engineering company that I've done work for has so many budget constraints they can't even find the time to train people on my tools, and they're supposed to save time! (Satellite design analysis). The boatyard is pretty interesting though. I've made an arrangement with the owner that paid for the development of his custom system so that I can sell it to other boatyards. First time I've actually negotiated something like that. I had to say "no" to his first offer, which was quite pathetic. He then saw the light, that I'm a struggling artiste (hahaha) and he's a rich boatyard owner. Amazing, actually. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"

[Marc Clifton]

Doing revolutionary stuff isn't like it used to be Marc. Sad but true. Something I have noticed is that programmers seem to the ones short on creativity. Yup. I agree. I think a lot of it comes from working in an environment where being creative is not endorsed much. Starting with our educational system. At least here in the US. Creativity doesn't seem to be encouraged at all in mainstream public schools (with maybe a few exceptions), which is where creative needs to be nourished. Now most projects have to be more than the efforts of one man I wonder about that a lot. Or is it because companies prefer to hire cheap mediocre talent, or do we all just reduce ourselves to the lowest common denominator? (Again, with the exception, of course). Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"

[Marc Clifton]

Also one issue many overlook is the company also takes the liability that you as an individual does not as an employee but does as a contractor. Good point (in fact all your comments are). I often wonder about my liability as a contractor. It's pretty hard to enforce though, I would think, especially because I repeatedly emphasize testing (which of course gets ignored), and I write into my contract that the client is responsible for testing, blah blah blah. Many years ago my father decided he wanted to make it on his own. And yes he was financially successful but to be honest I seldom saw him after that change. I promised I would not do that to my kids. Somehow I've managed to avoid this. Skip explanation of embarrassing hug from neighbor in grocer. :-D Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"

[Marc Clifton]

You had me up to there. Then you lost all inspirational value. Sorry, try a different joke next time. I was wondering if I should have put in that VB comment, and I thought, what the heck, everyone pokes fun at VB. Argh. I'm a creature of the masses. Noooooo.. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"

[Marc Clifton]

I have a simple agreement with my company which grants my rights on anything I do outside the office. Cool! Many US companies are real assholes about this sort of stuff. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"