Virtual Company2
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I'm going to repost my original post to the idea. It seems that before you focus on people and processes, a little system architecture design and a look into existing tools (including payment services like PayPal) might be of help to answer some foundational questions. I finally wandered over to this forum and noticed your post. I think it's a great idea, but if you can't get people to work well together within one company and physically next to each other, how in the world are you going to succeed in a virtual environment? I'm not trying to throw a wet blanket on your idea, it's just that I've been wondering about this problem for 20 years now. I've had varied success with working long distance with my clients (more success than failure), but I've found it much more difficult to work remotely with other programmers. Maybe money is a motivator to get people to work, but I typically find that quality is nearly impossible to maintain in long distance programmer to programmer relationships. This is primarily due to a much narrower communication bitrate and reduced bandwidth. It's easy for me to walk over to the next guy and ask "how's it going?", and check out his/her code remotely as it's being developed. It's a lot harder to do that in a virtual company. That, coupled with the lack of perceived project leadership (which is addressed primarily by the physical proximity effect, ie, the big stick), makes for some difficult times. However, if there were some technical solutions available, such as www.gotomypc.com and the like, to facilitate monitoring, communication, and decision making, then I think a virtual company would have a better chance of success. Identifying what tools exist, how to use them, and what tools are needed might be the first step. I also think that people need to "buy in" to the company, (yes, with $$$), sort of like a co-op. Initial membership fees, different levels of membership coupled to different voting rights on company direction, "stock options", etc. Marc Marc Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
A doable project is one that is small enough to be done quickly and big enough to be interesting - Ken Orr
CPP Script Framework Design Page Latest AAL Article AAL blogI agree with you, but we have to focus on people that are interested in building up the organization first. Once we have 4-5 dedicated people, then we can start doing the things you suggest. I am prepared to spend some time on (boring?)organizational issues and so is BooleanOperator but we still need some more people. jhaga --------------------------------- I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau, Walden, Conclusion, 1854
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I agree with you, but we have to focus on people that are interested in building up the organization first. Once we have 4-5 dedicated people, then we can start doing the things you suggest. I am prepared to spend some time on (boring?)organizational issues and so is BooleanOperator but we still need some more people. jhaga --------------------------------- I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau, Walden, Conclusion, 1854
jhaga wrote: but we have to focus on people that are interested in building up the organization first. I tend to think that it is more effective to put some work into a plan (for example, a drawing of how the business works is an excellent start) and high level ideas. This gives people something to chew on rather than an abstract idea. Even if you end up throwing out the original plan because people have made better or different suggestions, it provides some much needed focus. For example, I wouldn't go about presenting a virtual company idea this way. I'd put together a couple web pages on the Internet, do some research first, show people that it's possible, think of some of the problems and propose some solutions. The "vote on this idea" concept seems quite popular. Just my 2c though. Marc Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
A doable project is one that is small enough to be done quickly and big enough to be interesting - Ken Orr
CPP Script Framework Design Page Latest AAL Article AAL blog -
As you have stated, collaboration, quality control and numerous other points are key to success. I was trying to get a macro vision in place before trying to break it apart into smaller and more critcal pieces. I'm grateful you reposted this so others who didn't see it in the previous topic have a chance to read it. Regards, The Boolean Operator aka Boo
BooleanOperator wrote: I was trying to get a macro vision in place I think that really needs to come from the people who originate the idea. Getting other people's vision sounds great but what works better in my experience is giving people a vision that they can buy into. Otherwise people get the wrong expectations, squabble about pointless things, etc. There's enough people in the world and on CP that YOUR vision can be sustained by people interested in it. As I posted to jhaga also: I tend to think that it is more effective to put some work into a plan (for example, a drawing of how the business works is an excellent start) and high level ideas. This gives people something to chew on rather than an abstract idea. Even if you end up throwing out the original plan because people have made better or different suggestions, it provides some much needed focus. For example, I wouldn't go about presenting a virtual company idea this way. I'd put together a couple web pages on the Internet, do some research first, show people that it's possible, think of some of the problems and propose some solutions. The "vote on this idea" concept seems quite popular. Once you have clearly stated YOUR vision, then yes, by all means, this is a springboard for input from other people. Just my 2c though. Marc Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
A doable project is one that is small enough to be done quickly and big enough to be interesting - Ken Orr
CPP Script Framework Design Page Latest AAL Article AAL blog -
jhaga wrote: but we have to focus on people that are interested in building up the organization first. I tend to think that it is more effective to put some work into a plan (for example, a drawing of how the business works is an excellent start) and high level ideas. This gives people something to chew on rather than an abstract idea. Even if you end up throwing out the original plan because people have made better or different suggestions, it provides some much needed focus. For example, I wouldn't go about presenting a virtual company idea this way. I'd put together a couple web pages on the Internet, do some research first, show people that it's possible, think of some of the problems and propose some solutions. The "vote on this idea" concept seems quite popular. Just my 2c though. Marc Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
A doable project is one that is small enough to be done quickly and big enough to be interesting - Ken Orr
CPP Script Framework Design Page Latest AAL Article AAL blogYou are absolutely right, Marc. Why don't you join me and BooleanOperator and we draw up a business plan together? jhaga --------------------------------- I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau, Walden, Conclusion, 1854
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You are absolutely right, Marc. Why don't you join me and BooleanOperator and we draw up a business plan together? jhaga --------------------------------- I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau, Walden, Conclusion, 1854
jhaga wrote: Why don't you join me and BooleanOperator and we draw up a business plan together? Sadly, I have WAY too much on my plate right now to be able to invest the time to work on this cool idea. Marc Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
A doable project is one that is small enough to be done quickly and big enough to be interesting - Ken Orr
CPP Script Framework Design Page Latest AAL Article AAL blog -
jhaga wrote: Why don't you join me and BooleanOperator and we draw up a business plan together? Sadly, I have WAY too much on my plate right now to be able to invest the time to work on this cool idea. Marc Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
A doable project is one that is small enough to be done quickly and big enough to be interesting - Ken Orr
CPP Script Framework Design Page Latest AAL Article AAL blogAnd I have WAY WAY too much on my plate, and will pursue this project only if there is enough interest in it. Anyhow thanks for your ideas. jhaga --------------------------------- I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau, Walden, Conclusion, 1854
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And I have WAY WAY too much on my plate, and will pursue this project only if there is enough interest in it. Anyhow thanks for your ideas. jhaga --------------------------------- I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau, Walden, Conclusion, 1854
jhaga wrote: And I have WAY WAY too much on my plate, and will pursue this project only if there is enough interest in it. Touche. :-O I guess it's sort of a catch-22 eh? Well, that leaves BooleanOperator. :) Marc Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
A doable project is one that is small enough to be done quickly and big enough to be interesting - Ken Orr
CPP Script Framework Design Page Latest AAL Article AAL blog -
jhaga wrote: And I have WAY WAY too much on my plate, and will pursue this project only if there is enough interest in it. Touche. :-O I guess it's sort of a catch-22 eh? Well, that leaves BooleanOperator. :) Marc Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
A doable project is one that is small enough to be done quickly and big enough to be interesting - Ken Orr
CPP Script Framework Design Page Latest AAL Article AAL blogMarc Clifton wrote: that leaves BooleanOperator Yes, true or false :) jhaga --------------------------------- I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau, Walden, Conclusion, 1854
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Marc Clifton wrote: that leaves BooleanOperator Yes, true or false :) jhaga --------------------------------- I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau, Walden, Conclusion, 1854
jhaga wrote: Yes, true or false
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I'm just tossing a thought out here...but it sounds like the legal and logistical issues of forming a virtual company would be a nightmare. So, why not form a co-op. Build a centralized branding and location for customers to find one of the co-ops fine contractors. Each contractor subscribes to a certain set of business rules set forth by the co-op and a such is autorized to do business under the group's branding. Behind the scenes, the co-op members, contractors, however you want to put it can "hire" each other at a set rate agreed to by the group. This will give you the power of many under a single umbrella, plus you can share your work load with others. It will also allow folks to take on larger projects than usual. It will let the individual contractors keep there own business separate from the larger entity for legal or whatever other reasons too. I have a larger vision in my head, but have to actually organize it a little better if people are interested in listening. I'll add some more to this post in a little bit. I need to run and take care of something urgent at the moment. Regards, The Boolean Operator aka Boo
This sounds good. I am a freelance developer and I can see the value of this quite clearly. I have lost projects because the technologies they wanted to use were not familiar to me. In this setup - I could still take the project and pass it to the co-op. What I have to offer today: * A dedicated server (NT, IIS, MySQL, Cold FUsion, PHP) http://www.bj-consulting.com * Cisco technical writing and classes * Novell technical writing and classes * MFC/C++ * Cold Fusion development * SQL Admin * Graphics tools - 3D-Studio Max 5, Poser 5, TrueSpace32, Photoshop 7, Macromedia Studio MX What needs to happen is for 1 person to own the marketing side of this. Keep me in the loop! tlnolley@bj-consulting.com
I'm going to live forever or die trying!