Your C++ class must be derived from CObject to be serialisable anyway (see DECLARE_SERIAL, IMPLEMENT_SERIAL). You would put those definitions in your 'base' class's header file, with the implementation, which is normally to call obj.Serialize(CArchive&ar), which you then implement. You can then use these objects in your document's serialize method, using the operators, or alternatively, call the object's serialize method directly. Does that help any? Steve S