Steel wars
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Imo Bush's protectionist "steel law" is one of the most dangerous decisions taken by the United States in this decade. Its much more dangerous then the pathetic Kyoto and Start relics. Limitation on free trade by United States delivers a heavy blow to the idea itself. I just wonder how do you Americans look at the fact that your country is introducing protectionist trade laws? Do you belive that economy can be controlled by the goverments? Won't this make other industries of your country vulnerable and non competitive because they'll have to depend on expensive steel of low quality? The most pathetic thing about it is that my country (Slovenia) just two weeks ago accepted the law proposed by the United States about the production of generic drugs and set the moratorium on production of new generics to six years to protect intellectual property. The law really hurts our major (...and one Eastern European markets quite successful) pharmaceuticals but it was accepted because of the free trade benefits for my country in other areas. And now this... !@#? (excuse me) Not that I am anti american or anti Bush, my political belief is Libertalian and I like the idea of tax reduction and weak state. But our American friends should now really stop the patriotic frenzy for a moment to be able to rethink this particular act of unilateralism. This is not war on terrorism, this is going to hurt economies of countries that have stronger and more competitive steel production. And at the end trough your investments it will return like a boomerang to the United States. You should really keep focus on actions that promote your objectives and not use it as an excuse to eliminate economic competitors by etatistic means. Hope at least some of you will call your politicians to protest this law. Regards, Tomaz
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Imo Bush's protectionist "steel law" is one of the most dangerous decisions taken by the United States in this decade. Its much more dangerous then the pathetic Kyoto and Start relics. Limitation on free trade by United States delivers a heavy blow to the idea itself. I just wonder how do you Americans look at the fact that your country is introducing protectionist trade laws? Do you belive that economy can be controlled by the goverments? Won't this make other industries of your country vulnerable and non competitive because they'll have to depend on expensive steel of low quality? The most pathetic thing about it is that my country (Slovenia) just two weeks ago accepted the law proposed by the United States about the production of generic drugs and set the moratorium on production of new generics to six years to protect intellectual property. The law really hurts our major (...and one Eastern European markets quite successful) pharmaceuticals but it was accepted because of the free trade benefits for my country in other areas. And now this... !@#? (excuse me) Not that I am anti american or anti Bush, my political belief is Libertalian and I like the idea of tax reduction and weak state. But our American friends should now really stop the patriotic frenzy for a moment to be able to rethink this particular act of unilateralism. This is not war on terrorism, this is going to hurt economies of countries that have stronger and more competitive steel production. And at the end trough your investments it will return like a boomerang to the United States. You should really keep focus on actions that promote your objectives and not use it as an excuse to eliminate economic competitors by etatistic means. Hope at least some of you will call your politicians to protest this law. Regards, Tomaz
> Hope at least some of you will call your politicians to protest this law. I wrote to my local representative when we were accepting the moratorium on generic drugs. Now the ball is yours. "This is not right". Sincerely, Tomaz
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Imo Bush's protectionist "steel law" is one of the most dangerous decisions taken by the United States in this decade. Its much more dangerous then the pathetic Kyoto and Start relics. Limitation on free trade by United States delivers a heavy blow to the idea itself. I just wonder how do you Americans look at the fact that your country is introducing protectionist trade laws? Do you belive that economy can be controlled by the goverments? Won't this make other industries of your country vulnerable and non competitive because they'll have to depend on expensive steel of low quality? The most pathetic thing about it is that my country (Slovenia) just two weeks ago accepted the law proposed by the United States about the production of generic drugs and set the moratorium on production of new generics to six years to protect intellectual property. The law really hurts our major (...and one Eastern European markets quite successful) pharmaceuticals but it was accepted because of the free trade benefits for my country in other areas. And now this... !@#? (excuse me) Not that I am anti american or anti Bush, my political belief is Libertalian and I like the idea of tax reduction and weak state. But our American friends should now really stop the patriotic frenzy for a moment to be able to rethink this particular act of unilateralism. This is not war on terrorism, this is going to hurt economies of countries that have stronger and more competitive steel production. And at the end trough your investments it will return like a boomerang to the United States. You should really keep focus on actions that promote your objectives and not use it as an excuse to eliminate economic competitors by etatistic means. Hope at least some of you will call your politicians to protest this law. Regards, Tomaz
Tomaz, Don't fear needlessily, we of the E.U. are quite used to kicking American's asses over trade issues. Remember the Banana/beef etc war's ? who always came out on top, Solvenia will soon asscend to full E.U. membership (as soon as I change some Irish votes) and join us in some good old fashioned American ass whooping. So fear not, and let us let Brussels do what she is good at ... p.s. Looking forward to my holiday's in Ljublhana in August. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
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Tomaz, Don't fear needlessily, we of the E.U. are quite used to kicking American's asses over trade issues. Remember the Banana/beef etc war's ? who always came out on top, Solvenia will soon asscend to full E.U. membership (as soon as I change some Irish votes) and join us in some good old fashioned American ass whooping. So fear not, and let us let Brussels do what she is good at ... p.s. Looking forward to my holiday's in Ljublhana in August. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
Ray Kinsella wrote: we of the E.U. are quite used to kicking American's asses over trade issues EXACTLY!, if there was ever a reason to accept this United States of Europe bulls..., then this is IT. Jan "It could have been worse, it could have been ME!"
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Tomaz, Don't fear needlessily, we of the E.U. are quite used to kicking American's asses over trade issues. Remember the Banana/beef etc war's ? who always came out on top, Solvenia will soon asscend to full E.U. membership (as soon as I change some Irish votes) and join us in some good old fashioned American ass whooping. So fear not, and let us let Brussels do what she is good at ... p.s. Looking forward to my holiday's in Ljublhana in August. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
Ray, thanks. But I don't feel a bit better. We do have some problems of our own in the old world, don't we? The agroculture production quotas, buerocracy (for example required number of goverment officials per square meter), limitation on how low taxes can go (to prevent tax competition)... Apropos. In the Banana wars Europe was the bad guy, imo. But these are internal matters. EU is quite open to the outside. Anyway, Europe and US still are the most open markets. I just hate it when someone does something this stupid on each side of the Atlantic. Increasing import tax to 30% and introducing quotas. That's just crazy. What do that hope to achieve with that? Get US steel industry on its feet again? Never worked for anyone in this way. I'll be in Slovenia (I live in Switzerland) in August. How does the word 'beer' sound to you? Tomaz
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Ray Kinsella wrote: we of the E.U. are quite used to kicking American's asses over trade issues EXACTLY!, if there was ever a reason to accept this United States of Europe bulls..., then this is IT. Jan "It could have been worse, it could have been ME!"
My evil friend once mentioned that EU stands for Eastern Us. ;-) Tomaz
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Tomaz, Don't fear needlessily, we of the E.U. are quite used to kicking American's asses over trade issues. Remember the Banana/beef etc war's ? who always came out on top, Solvenia will soon asscend to full E.U. membership (as soon as I change some Irish votes) and join us in some good old fashioned American ass whooping. So fear not, and let us let Brussels do what she is good at ... p.s. Looking forward to my holiday's in Ljublhana in August. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
Ray Kinsella wrote: Don't fear needlessily, we of the E.U. are quite used to kicking American's asses over trade issues. Remember the Banana/beef etc war's ? who always came out on top, Solvenia will soon asscend to full E.U. membership (as soon as I change some Irish votes) and join us in some good old fashioned American ass whooping. So fear not, and let us let Brussels do what she is good at ... Wow! I didn't even notice that ass kicking. Must have been a big deal to the lesser nations of the world though, I suppose. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
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Ray, thanks. But I don't feel a bit better. We do have some problems of our own in the old world, don't we? The agroculture production quotas, buerocracy (for example required number of goverment officials per square meter), limitation on how low taxes can go (to prevent tax competition)... Apropos. In the Banana wars Europe was the bad guy, imo. But these are internal matters. EU is quite open to the outside. Anyway, Europe and US still are the most open markets. I just hate it when someone does something this stupid on each side of the Atlantic. Increasing import tax to 30% and introducing quotas. That's just crazy. What do that hope to achieve with that? Get US steel industry on its feet again? Never worked for anyone in this way. I'll be in Slovenia (I live in Switzerland) in August. How does the word 'beer' sound to you? Tomaz
well, if you are in switzerland beer should sound to you something like "catpiss"... imho.. colored water the only time when it is really good is when it is VERY VERY hot.. cause you can drink lots of it.. bernhard
Sometimes I think the surest sign for intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is that none of them ever tried to contact us.
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Imo Bush's protectionist "steel law" is one of the most dangerous decisions taken by the United States in this decade. Its much more dangerous then the pathetic Kyoto and Start relics. Limitation on free trade by United States delivers a heavy blow to the idea itself. I just wonder how do you Americans look at the fact that your country is introducing protectionist trade laws? Do you belive that economy can be controlled by the goverments? Won't this make other industries of your country vulnerable and non competitive because they'll have to depend on expensive steel of low quality? The most pathetic thing about it is that my country (Slovenia) just two weeks ago accepted the law proposed by the United States about the production of generic drugs and set the moratorium on production of new generics to six years to protect intellectual property. The law really hurts our major (...and one Eastern European markets quite successful) pharmaceuticals but it was accepted because of the free trade benefits for my country in other areas. And now this... !@#? (excuse me) Not that I am anti american or anti Bush, my political belief is Libertalian and I like the idea of tax reduction and weak state. But our American friends should now really stop the patriotic frenzy for a moment to be able to rethink this particular act of unilateralism. This is not war on terrorism, this is going to hurt economies of countries that have stronger and more competitive steel production. And at the end trough your investments it will return like a boomerang to the United States. You should really keep focus on actions that promote your objectives and not use it as an excuse to eliminate economic competitors by etatistic means. Hope at least some of you will call your politicians to protest this law. Regards, Tomaz
tstih wrote: protectionist "steel law" Could you give this layman an explanation of what this steel "law" means in practical terms. i.e. Does it, roughly, mean that if I wanted to import steel into the US I have to fork over an extra 30% (to who? the US government?) and I can only import 5000 tons at most each month? And also why are they doing it? Are they doing it because their internal steel producers are not competitive enough, in quantity, quality and price, with the rest of the world so therefore by applying this law they hope to load the dice in the US steel producers favour? If so, then wow, that sounds like what SA does all the time and what Africa is pushing for in countires all over the world (Africa apparently is pushing for African goods to be exempt from certain taxes etc. so that they can be more competitive.) Sounds to me like some US steel producers are just not very good at what they do and need some help. Or am I totally wrong? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Imo Bush's protectionist "steel law" is one of the most dangerous decisions taken by the United States in this decade. Its much more dangerous then the pathetic Kyoto and Start relics. Limitation on free trade by United States delivers a heavy blow to the idea itself. I just wonder how do you Americans look at the fact that your country is introducing protectionist trade laws? Do you belive that economy can be controlled by the goverments? Won't this make other industries of your country vulnerable and non competitive because they'll have to depend on expensive steel of low quality? The most pathetic thing about it is that my country (Slovenia) just two weeks ago accepted the law proposed by the United States about the production of generic drugs and set the moratorium on production of new generics to six years to protect intellectual property. The law really hurts our major (...and one Eastern European markets quite successful) pharmaceuticals but it was accepted because of the free trade benefits for my country in other areas. And now this... !@#? (excuse me) Not that I am anti american or anti Bush, my political belief is Libertalian and I like the idea of tax reduction and weak state. But our American friends should now really stop the patriotic frenzy for a moment to be able to rethink this particular act of unilateralism. This is not war on terrorism, this is going to hurt economies of countries that have stronger and more competitive steel production. And at the end trough your investments it will return like a boomerang to the United States. You should really keep focus on actions that promote your objectives and not use it as an excuse to eliminate economic competitors by etatistic means. Hope at least some of you will call your politicians to protest this law. Regards, Tomaz
OMG, A TARRIF!!!! You act like this is something new. Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
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Ray, thanks. But I don't feel a bit better. We do have some problems of our own in the old world, don't we? The agroculture production quotas, buerocracy (for example required number of goverment officials per square meter), limitation on how low taxes can go (to prevent tax competition)... Apropos. In the Banana wars Europe was the bad guy, imo. But these are internal matters. EU is quite open to the outside. Anyway, Europe and US still are the most open markets. I just hate it when someone does something this stupid on each side of the Atlantic. Increasing import tax to 30% and introducing quotas. That's just crazy. What do that hope to achieve with that? Get US steel industry on its feet again? Never worked for anyone in this way. I'll be in Slovenia (I live in Switzerland) in August. How does the word 'beer' sound to you? Tomaz
Tomasz, I, and I think many Americans agree with you. I don't support Bush on this. I understand that the tariffs are a reaction to protectionist policies on the part of some goverments which allow their steel companies to dump steel here below costs which makes it difficult for our steel industry to compete. Still, I think there should be a better way to handle it. I think the U.S. should resolutely defend free/fair trade between nations. Tariffs have been proven to be a very bad idea. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
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well, if you are in switzerland beer should sound to you something like "catpiss"... imho.. colored water the only time when it is really good is when it is VERY VERY hot.. cause you can drink lots of it.. bernhard
Sometimes I think the surest sign for intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is that none of them ever tried to contact us.
Do they have chocolate-flavored beer? ;) Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
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Imo Bush's protectionist "steel law" is one of the most dangerous decisions taken by the United States in this decade. Its much more dangerous then the pathetic Kyoto and Start relics. Limitation on free trade by United States delivers a heavy blow to the idea itself. I just wonder how do you Americans look at the fact that your country is introducing protectionist trade laws? Do you belive that economy can be controlled by the goverments? Won't this make other industries of your country vulnerable and non competitive because they'll have to depend on expensive steel of low quality? The most pathetic thing about it is that my country (Slovenia) just two weeks ago accepted the law proposed by the United States about the production of generic drugs and set the moratorium on production of new generics to six years to protect intellectual property. The law really hurts our major (...and one Eastern European markets quite successful) pharmaceuticals but it was accepted because of the free trade benefits for my country in other areas. And now this... !@#? (excuse me) Not that I am anti american or anti Bush, my political belief is Libertalian and I like the idea of tax reduction and weak state. But our American friends should now really stop the patriotic frenzy for a moment to be able to rethink this particular act of unilateralism. This is not war on terrorism, this is going to hurt economies of countries that have stronger and more competitive steel production. And at the end trough your investments it will return like a boomerang to the United States. You should really keep focus on actions that promote your objectives and not use it as an excuse to eliminate economic competitors by etatistic means. Hope at least some of you will call your politicians to protest this law. Regards, Tomaz
tstih wrote: I just wonder how do you Americans look at the fact that your country is introducing protectionist trade laws? We don't care. Just let us watch ESPN. tstih wrote: Do you belive that economy can be controlled by the goverments? Alan Greenspan controls it. Move out of the way, football is on. tstih wrote: Won't this make other industries of your country vulnerable and non competitive because they'll have to depend on expensive steel of low quality? TVs are made of plastic. And so is my BigMac. I said move out of the way! tstih wrote: But our American friends should now really stop the patriotic frenzy for a moment to be able to rethink this particular act of unilateralism. You sound like a terrorist. Where did you say you were^h^h^h^hused to be from? The Lake Formerly Known as Slovenia? If you don't get out o the way of the game, I'm gonna drop kick ya! tstih wrote: This is not war on terrorism, this is going to hurt economies of countries that have stronger and more competitive steel production. They sound like terrorists to me. Probably some poor slobs chained to their steel mills forced to work 20 hour days. We'll have to march in an libberate them right after the next touchdown. tstih wrote: You should really keep focus on actions that promote your objectives and not use it as an excuse to eliminate economic competitors by etatistic means. You should be bulding bomb shelters and learning the phrase "I surrn'der, don't shoot me!". Now shut up and watch the damn game.
Visual Studio Favorites - improve your development! GUIgui - skin your apps without XP
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Tomasz, I, and I think many Americans agree with you. I don't support Bush on this. I understand that the tariffs are a reaction to protectionist policies on the part of some goverments which allow their steel companies to dump steel here below costs which makes it difficult for our steel industry to compete. Still, I think there should be a better way to handle it. I think the U.S. should resolutely defend free/fair trade between nations. Tariffs have been proven to be a very bad idea. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
Stan Shannon wrote: some goverments which allow their steel companies to dump steel here below costs Like a babe into the woods I tippy toe and respectfully ask the aged wise trees: How can they dump below cost and carry on going? Can someone explain to me how a country a couple thousand kilometres away can, with transport costs, handling costs and packaging costs, bring steel into the US cheaper than a US steel producer whose transport, handling and packaging costs are far less? I can understand if the forieng countries are far more efficient in all areas of steel production than the US producers, but I don't quite see that being true. Here in SA our textile workers are going potty because it is cheaper for retail chains to import clothing and textiles from other countries. They are clamouring for restrictions and "loading the dice" in their favour. I say "sod off you bunch of slackers", "work harder, be more efficient." i.e. The foriegn importers simply produce clothes better and cheaper than we do, so why the hell should our guys be done any favours? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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OMG, A TARRIF!!!! You act like this is something new. Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
Tim Smith wrote: You act like this is something new. Well, all the papers and other media over here are going nuts over this as well. I think with Afghanistan out of the lime light, Iraq not quite in it, the Israeli-Palestine war getting even more "repetitive" and nothing much else to focus on they saw "Bush", "New Law", "Restricting Free Trade" and jumped on it. If Bush had said "Free candy for all" they would have put it on the front page :rolleyes: Just curious, but what other kind of trade tariffs does the US currently have? Is it just steel now? Or are there others which have been around for ages? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Imo Bush's protectionist "steel law" is one of the most dangerous decisions taken by the United States in this decade. Its much more dangerous then the pathetic Kyoto and Start relics. Limitation on free trade by United States delivers a heavy blow to the idea itself. I just wonder how do you Americans look at the fact that your country is introducing protectionist trade laws? Do you belive that economy can be controlled by the goverments? Won't this make other industries of your country vulnerable and non competitive because they'll have to depend on expensive steel of low quality? The most pathetic thing about it is that my country (Slovenia) just two weeks ago accepted the law proposed by the United States about the production of generic drugs and set the moratorium on production of new generics to six years to protect intellectual property. The law really hurts our major (...and one Eastern European markets quite successful) pharmaceuticals but it was accepted because of the free trade benefits for my country in other areas. And now this... !@#? (excuse me) Not that I am anti american or anti Bush, my political belief is Libertalian and I like the idea of tax reduction and weak state. But our American friends should now really stop the patriotic frenzy for a moment to be able to rethink this particular act of unilateralism. This is not war on terrorism, this is going to hurt economies of countries that have stronger and more competitive steel production. And at the end trough your investments it will return like a boomerang to the United States. You should really keep focus on actions that promote your objectives and not use it as an excuse to eliminate economic competitors by etatistic means. Hope at least some of you will call your politicians to protest this law. Regards, Tomaz
Sorry if this has already been said, as I did not have time to read all the replies. tstih wrote: because they'll have to depend on expensive steel of low quality Acording to a news program I saw last night, the US steel market is about as efficient in production as they come. The big problems they have is not the quality, its the price attached to the produced stell because wages /pensions etc in the US are much higher. I would be surprised if steel workers in some of the pacific rim countries actually have pensions. They are also paid a lot less. This lets them produce steel at a much lower cost on the world market. Now I can understand why the US have done it, but I still dont agree. They need to get their local wages/pension house in order instead of blocking/taxing imports. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I'm not breathing, I'm either dead or holding my breath. A fool jabbers, while a wise man listens. But is he so wise to listen to the fool?
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Do they have chocolate-flavored beer? ;) Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
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Stan Shannon wrote: some goverments which allow their steel companies to dump steel here below costs Like a babe into the woods I tippy toe and respectfully ask the aged wise trees: How can they dump below cost and carry on going? Can someone explain to me how a country a couple thousand kilometres away can, with transport costs, handling costs and packaging costs, bring steel into the US cheaper than a US steel producer whose transport, handling and packaging costs are far less? I can understand if the forieng countries are far more efficient in all areas of steel production than the US producers, but I don't quite see that being true. Here in SA our textile workers are going potty because it is cheaper for retail chains to import clothing and textiles from other countries. They are clamouring for restrictions and "loading the dice" in their favour. I say "sod off you bunch of slackers", "work harder, be more efficient." i.e. The foriegn importers simply produce clothes better and cheaper than we do, so why the hell should our guys be done any favours? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: Like a babe into the woods I tippy toe and respectfully ask the aged wise trees: How can they dump below cost and carry on going? From what I understand (which could be completely wrong as I'm no authority on the steel industry) is that the countries in which these companies operate give them subsidies to offset the losses they sustain by selling cheap here in the U.S. thus keeping their industry propped up in an unfair way at our expense. Like most farmers around the world today, thanks to government subsidies, they no longer have to concern themselves with makeing a profit to stay in business. Paul Watson wrote: I can understand if the forieng countries are far more efficient in all areas of steel production than the US producers, but I don't quite see that being true. I think that is the most important element in the issue. Our steel industry *has* gotten behind technologically and therefore cannot produce steel as efficiently and hence, as cheaply. But from what I understand, our guys are saying that they cannot invest in improvements unless they are given a temporary respite from foreign steel which is being sold for less than it could be produced by any amount of improvement in technology. Personally, although I think the countries that do that should stop, I think our industry is full of crap. I think they need to knuckle down, invest in improvements, and compete. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
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Imo Bush's protectionist "steel law" is one of the most dangerous decisions taken by the United States in this decade. Its much more dangerous then the pathetic Kyoto and Start relics. Limitation on free trade by United States delivers a heavy blow to the idea itself. I just wonder how do you Americans look at the fact that your country is introducing protectionist trade laws? Do you belive that economy can be controlled by the goverments? Won't this make other industries of your country vulnerable and non competitive because they'll have to depend on expensive steel of low quality? The most pathetic thing about it is that my country (Slovenia) just two weeks ago accepted the law proposed by the United States about the production of generic drugs and set the moratorium on production of new generics to six years to protect intellectual property. The law really hurts our major (...and one Eastern European markets quite successful) pharmaceuticals but it was accepted because of the free trade benefits for my country in other areas. And now this... !@#? (excuse me) Not that I am anti american or anti Bush, my political belief is Libertalian and I like the idea of tax reduction and weak state. But our American friends should now really stop the patriotic frenzy for a moment to be able to rethink this particular act of unilateralism. This is not war on terrorism, this is going to hurt economies of countries that have stronger and more competitive steel production. And at the end trough your investments it will return like a boomerang to the United States. You should really keep focus on actions that promote your objectives and not use it as an excuse to eliminate economic competitors by etatistic means. Hope at least some of you will call your politicians to protest this law. Regards, Tomaz
this is about US politics, not making the EU feel good. The republican party is trying hard to please US voters (elections are coming up), so it's sacrficing the feelings of a bunch of EU and Asian countries. You don't get votes by putting people out of work. tstih wrote: But our American friends should now really stop the patriotic frenzy for a moment to be able to rethink this particular act of unilateralism Patriotic frenzy? sheesh. get over it. this has nothing to do with patriotism. this is politics. And, it's a tarri, we're not bombing London or anything. tstih wrote: this is going to hurt economies of countries that have stronger and more competitive steel production. so, the US economy needs to suffer so that other economies can be happy? nice world, that. tstih wrote: Hope at least some of you will call your politicians to protest this law. err.. i doubt it. i'm not really sure you'll find many americans who want Joe from Pennsylvania to lose his job, just so Joe from Canton can keep his. -c
Smaller Animals Software, Inc. You're the icing - on the cake - on the table - at my wake. Modest Mouse
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Paul Watson wrote: Like a babe into the woods I tippy toe and respectfully ask the aged wise trees: How can they dump below cost and carry on going? From what I understand (which could be completely wrong as I'm no authority on the steel industry) is that the countries in which these companies operate give them subsidies to offset the losses they sustain by selling cheap here in the U.S. thus keeping their industry propped up in an unfair way at our expense. Like most farmers around the world today, thanks to government subsidies, they no longer have to concern themselves with makeing a profit to stay in business. Paul Watson wrote: I can understand if the forieng countries are far more efficient in all areas of steel production than the US producers, but I don't quite see that being true. I think that is the most important element in the issue. Our steel industry *has* gotten behind technologically and therefore cannot produce steel as efficiently and hence, as cheaply. But from what I understand, our guys are saying that they cannot invest in improvements unless they are given a temporary respite from foreign steel which is being sold for less than it could be produced by any amount of improvement in technology. Personally, although I think the countries that do that should stop, I think our industry is full of crap. I think they need to knuckle down, invest in improvements, and compete. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
Stan Shannon wrote: Personally, although I think the countries that do that should stop, I think our industry is full of crap. I think they need to knuckle down, invest in improvements, and compete. Bit of a chicken and egg scenario. They are behind and need a break to get up to being competitive, but the world won't give them a break because they are not competitive. Then of course the rest of the world moans when they are given a break. So, maybe, just maybe Bush is giving them the break they need to catch up. If that is the case, then I am ok with it. If they sit around on their asses hoping the tariff is their meal ticket however then they deserve to go under. Hopefully once they have caught up, the tariff will be scrapped? Stan Shannon wrote: the countries in which these companies operate give them subsidies to offset the losses they sustain by selling cheap here in the U.S I really see that as a big problem in economics. Somewhere, someone or some industry is footing the bill for those subsidies. Eventually it will come around and bite the country in the ass if they don't stop subsidising. Subsidising initially is fine, but to just carry on doing it is daft. I just thought of something: I will bet some of the money America gives to developing nations is used to subsidise these steel companies which then undercut the American producers. How ironic, and disrespectful of the developing nations. *Paul wipes the worlds slate clean and starts everything anew* I wonder how long it would take for us to get in the same pickle we are in now? :| Thanks for the info Stan, you are indeed a wise.. errr.. tree. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront