Protesting Air Strikes
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Air strikes are faster, and with the weapns they use, they are much more capable of the benefit of a surprise visit. The U.S. would not intentionally target a civilian building (I mean c'mon, the US military ain't stupid and they know that everything they do is subject to review) unless they had reasonable intelligence to suggest that a high-value target was in the building. And for the clueless out there, everyone in that country knows that if they harbor terrorists, they may share the same inevitable fate as said terrorists. So why has this thread gone as far as it has? I thought most of you were smarter than that. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Are you trying to give us a laugh?if you had read ,i did make a point that some could be done INTENTIALLY Air strikes are faster,but are they precise?whether its GulfWarI or iraq war,americans really MISSED many targets during air strikes and targetted civilian areas,do you want me to make a search on google for you?you may do that yourself for sure,for sake of making my point,i found these two on first page of google 1)Air Strike in Iraq kill family ----------------------------------- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle\_east/4577578.stm 2)Air strike in Afghanistan and civilian casualties --------------------------------------------------- http://www.cursor.org/stories/civilian\_deaths.htm http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jan2004/afgh-j20.shtml http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0720-09.htm http://www.robincmiller.com/afghan1.htm so how would you hold the claim that these *FASTER* air strikes were precise?these are links which i found in just 2 searches,if i spend 20-30 mins,i would find many similar instances.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
(I mean c'mon, the US military ain't stupid and they know that everything they do is subject to revie
haha, WTF,yeah they were not stupid ,that was not CIA but aljazeera who gave info that there are WMDs in iraq? make some sense daydreamer,many ppl just don`t watch FOXNEWS,there is a world outside of America as well.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
So why has this thread gone as far as it has? I thought most of you were smarter than that.
yep,many people here are smarter than those idiot americans who believe that BUSH is doing RIGHT for his country people,regarding thread,you guys invaded country after country just for sake of that 9/11 and yet you guys have been whining about it and killed thousands for sake of 5,000 people only and yet blood thirsty.Get a life
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Air strikes also have the advantage of zero "home team" casualties. Putting in ground troops is not only, as you say, slower and less capable of a surprise attack, but it is also a lot riskier in terms of mission success. Bombs can't be ambused, nor t get second thoughts. They just work.
As for the target itself, I have no real opinions. Most likely, the building had or was supposed to harbor aQ members. What's scary though, is that aQ may be spreading disinformation about their whereabouts, assuring deaths of innocent people. It'll strengthen the "US is Satan" perception already present in muslim countries.
I think fighting aQ requires reevaluation of combat techniques. Since I'm not a military strategist, I won't be giving you any advice on what needs to be done. Had air strikes been "teh sh1t", aQ should've been nothing but blood stained gravel by now.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
is that aQ may be spreading disinformation about their whereabouts, assuring deaths of innocent people
i am afraid but so far it has been proved right that most of us plans went in vain due to wrong info,i dont know u r aware or not but condition for US in aafghanistan has been so uncertain and worst that taliban now fool to US soldier, they propagate WRONG info on wireless and satellie phones and when Americans reach there,they find nothing at all,the smartness is that they are full aware of every movement of US armed forces,since they are on height,mountains ,valleys who are similar like normal roads for them.they also use old techniques for message transferring that is pigeons,sometimes they make a fake blast in some area and when americans reach there,they attack from opposite side,old but efficient techniques but i wouldn`t blame taliban here ,its US responsibility to take care of information they recieve,taliban have been making them mentally tired and yet theyare successful. NOT every war could be fought by using conventional weaponary.
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Rohde wrote:
So every country should do what the US says, or be bombed?
What the fuck are you talking about? The terrorists are living in Adnan's country. It is their responsibility to do something about it. It is not a question of doing what the US says it is a question of simple responsibility. If the US allowed terrorist to live in our country who were dedicated to the murder and destruction of Pakistan, Pakistan would have every right to demand we do something about it and do it themselves if we wouldn't or couldn't do it ourselves.
Rohde wrote:
When will you stop?
When countries like Pakistan demonstrate they have the ability to stop people living in their country from going on international murder sprees.
Rohde wrote:
How many do you want dead?
Kiss my ass. I don't want any dead. THe death is not my fault you fucking idiot. It is not the fault of the US. It is the fault of all those who live in these countries who simply will not act to stop this madness. Tell me how in God's name you respond to the level of terrorism these people are capable of without killing innocents? "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
Stan Shannon wrote:
What the f*** are you talking about? The terrorists are living in Adnan's country
are you making a claim that there are terrorists in PAKISTAN or in any muslim country only?
Stan Shannon wrote:
It is their responsibility to do something about it.
NO,we had been leading a really Fcuking Live for long time before invasion of Afghanistan by US and General`s decision to support Bush govt,you guys had really made many locals` life like hell and there is NO doubt about it.
Stan Shannon wrote:
When countries like Pakistan demonstrate they have the ability to stop people living in their country from going on international murder sprees.
Alqeda is a myth same goes for Osama and Co,today Bush is in office coz of Osama ,one shouldn`t forget appearance of Osama before election on tv which aided bush to raise his graph during election campaign, you guys would never get Osama or any of like minded people who are called "Terrorists* by your govt. I challange you stan,even if your country attack on Pakistan or all suspected countries,you will never get the guy and what could be reasons behind it? 1)there was no alqaeda on earth,some terrorists orginzation on paper 2)Osama has dead or has set his invisible mode 3)umm maybe protected by country who wants to use him for fulfilling his own intrests? ;) and there is a word for such people , Traitor,like we had traitor in pasts in india like Meer Jafar and Meer Sadiq who helped Brits to destroy Indian kings of that time, for me Osama or co is not a mujahid but a traitor,in past,I was also thrilled that this osma had got balls to reply US,but as the time passed and i found casualties in afghanistan and iraq,i realized that this is something else. why its like that every other afghanis is getting killed but not two persons like oSama and Aiman Zaharwi?they are NOT EVEN LOCALS like afghanis,how come they are able to save themselves,i read in papers that blah blah of osama was killed,blah blah guard got killed but OSama saved,latest i found that His driver was captured or killed but there was no OSama.. pakistan itself has handled many people to US and frankly speaking,some of them were not terrorists at all,i do remember the story of a doctor who was captured by pakistani officials just coz he used to treat people in afghanistan including talibans,whi
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It would not surprise me if Al-Zawahri planted false information, to determine who was leaking information to the Pakistani and CIA operatives in the area. HE would not hesitate to slaughter innocents to further his 'cause'. Think about it. > no wonder,they have tendency to ruin city after city for sake of individuals then americans ask, "Why do they hate us?" Ruin city after city? last time I checked, we just sent 100 BILLION dollars to help rebuild Iraq. Your sampling of the news is pathetic. C. Gilley Will program for food... My son's PDA is an M249 SAW.
CharlieG wrote:
Ruin city after city? last time I checked, we just sent 100 BILLION dollars to help rebuild Iraq. Your sampling of the news is pathetic.
how about if i murder your family members and leave just one to burry them and after few months i take responsiblity of your family,how would it be felt?would i be kissed by neighbours that how GENEROUS i`m that first i killed then supporting them? keep your moronic examples yourself
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This is really sad.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
,i wonder americans are really so idiot that they blindly believe in any info and get ready to strike the place?
While I understand why you're upset, I'm sure they don't believe 'just any info'. It's obvious tho that in chasing an enemy that hides in houses, and shields itself behind women and children, that women and children will die, and not every attack will hit the target it was aiming for.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
no wonder,they have tendency to ruin city after city for sake of individuals
They did not decide on the rules of engagement.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
then americans ask,"Why do they hate us?"
The answer to this question is in part people who blindly believe anti US propoganda, and reject anything that paints the US in a positive light. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
While I understand why you're upset, I'm sure they don't believe 'just any info'. It's obvious tho that in chasing an enemy that hides in houses, and shields itself behind women and children, that women and children will die, and not every attack will hit the target it was aiming for.
US strikes were not precise,it has happened in pakistan now,lots of civlilans have been killed in iraq and afghanistan due to such air strikes
Christian Graus wrote:
The answer to this question is in part people who blindly believe anti US propoganda, and reject anything that paints the US in a positive light.
nobody on earth can deny the services of american for mankind and it covers every field of life,i wont go in past,recent inventions by Americans are help for millions, for instance The Internet, Computers,Google etc etc,but it should also keep in mind that who is ruining the image?the US govt or outsiders? its not others mistake,US govt itself has screwed up US image so much that even their latest attempt to improve it for example a little aid for pakistani earth quake victims and tsunami victims is not heping them out, US officials themselves admitted that they all doing for sake of improving uS image in muslim counteries. its wrong perception among americans that muslims or any other anti-us country hate America as a country or its citizens,if someone claims this,hes a fucking hypocrite,when ppl say HATE AMERICA,they refer nothing but US govt and this is the fact.
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from CNN[^] 18 killed, but al Qaeda No. 2 man apparently not among them LAHORE, Pakistan (CNN) -- Thousands of people turned out in cities across the country Sunday to demonstrate against Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf and the United States in the wake of a U.S. airstrike that killed 18 people on Friday General Mush is always tested by his Darling Bush & CO,as its said that the path of love is not so easy at all. asusual this attack went in vain,information was wrong as it was about WMD,i wonder americans are really so idiot that they blindly believe in any info and get ready to strike the place? no wonder,they have tendency to ruin city after city for sake of individuals then americans ask,"Why do they hate us?"
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Air strikes are faster, and with the weapns they use, they are much more capable of the benefit of a surprise visit. The U.S. would not intentionally target a civilian building (I mean c'mon, the US military ain't stupid and they know that everything they do is subject to review) unless they had reasonable intelligence to suggest that a high-value target was in the building. And for the clueless out there, everyone in that country knows that if they harbor terrorists, they may share the same inevitable fate as said terrorists. So why has this thread gone as far as it has? I thought most of you were smarter than that. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
You have lost any humanity you may have had, Stan. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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And here we have the answer to those who argue that the war on terror should be nothing more than trying to hunt down a few key individuals. Intelligence will always be flawed, innocent people will always die, and the survivors will always be justifiably angry. I would be. So the question remains what do you do? Can't have sanctions because innocent people die. Can't invade because innocent people die. Can't hunt from cave to cave, house to house because innocent people die. Obviously, we will be hated regardless of what we do aside from just surrendering. As an American, I am happy to be hated if it means my country is fighting back. Adnan, what happened in your country was terrible. But the terrorists who attacked us are living in your country. If you guys can't get them we have no choice but to try to do it for you. And if some of your innocent countrymen die in the process its your fault not mine. If you don't like that than you and all those protestors should be out finding those terrorists for us. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
I agree that Pakistan has serious terrorist problems and needs to sort them out if it wants any leg to stand on in the international world. But the U.S. does have some responsibility, you cannot say it is not your fault at all. Your intel was wrong, again, and innocent people died. Show some sympathy, admit the mistake and move on. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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Okay, before someone jumps down my throat for my language, I will apologize - I can find more eloquant ways to express myself. However, I want to put some perspective on the anti-American whining that goes on and on and on. I respect your right to whine, I just wish you would be fair about it. One of my older sons is now serving in the war on terror. He may very well be asked to pay the ultimate price for *his* decision to serve. But, he *willingly* chose to go, because he believes, as I do, that there are somethings in this world that are right to do, and there are some people in this world that need protection. And there are some people in this world that need to die. Do I want my son responsible for killing a family? Of course not. But he, like all of us, are dependent on those in authority over us. If you want to see a *real* picture of an American soldier and not the usual tripe that gets blathered by some in this soapbox, go to : http://www.michaelyon-online.com/cart/images/NoFrameLG.jpg This little girl was killed by a murderous bomber in Mosul, Iraq. The American soldiers tried to save her first, before their own ... I want you to *think* a little bit before spouting off with your trite little phrases and quoting imperialist nonsense. If the US was as imperialist as you say, we don't need a terrorist attack to justify taking what you claim we want. Far be it from me to claim the US is perfect. It isn't. I'm going to go breath into a paperbag for a little while.... Peace, truly, peace to all of you C. Gilley Will program for food... My son's PDA is an M249 SAW.
Hi CharlieG, Are you o.k.? Did the paperbag trick help? Boy you seemed a bit on edge there. That's o.k. This is an issue we all feel strongly about. Especially if we have our own sons and daughters serving in the war at the moment, as is the case for you. I hope your son doesn't have to pay the ultimate prize. I really do. I'm actually not liberal (and why does it even matter?). But I personally just don't think that the current spiral of violence leads to anywhere good, and that's what I wanted to express in my posts (in the usual over-the-edge-soapboxy-way). I'm not too crazy for the current American administration - and I'm pretty sure they've gained nothing more than make the world more unsuafe, and entizing even more muslims to radicalize themselves so they end doing all these fu**ed up things. Killing innocent people is not the solution. On the other hand, I'm not proponent for a live-and-let-go attitude. Things are just slipping. The invasion of Afghanistan was totally called for and a good idea. It was a nest for terrorists, but the Iraqian invasion was in the larger scheme of things a big mistake. That's just how I see it. And by the way, my beef is as mentioned whith the American administration, and not the actual American soliders, or the Americans themselves. We in Europe have a lot to thank the US for, much more than people actually are aware of. That's also whay I feel so strongly about this. We are allies and thus obligated to speak out when we feel things are going wrong. My own country, Denmark, has soldiers in Iraq. I think it was a big misstake for us to get into it. But since we are there now all of us (well those that's left in Iraq: US, UK, Poland, Denmark...did I forget any?) have an obligation to see it through and do what's best for Iraq. I hope we can do it - I know our soliders are brave so maybe we can. But what about our leaders? Are they brave? Are they doing the right thing? All important questions. And hard to answer. -- modified at 5:39 Monday 16th January, 2006
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Stan, you're wasting your time. The only thing of any significance to come out of Denmark are chicks with big tits, and fancy pastries. I hear they're really good friends with the French, too. Rhode came up with other significant things - Lego and C++. I think the list is now complete. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -- modified at 5:59 Monday 16th January, 2006
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Okay, before someone jumps down my throat for my language, I will apologize - I can find more eloquant ways to express myself. However, I want to put some perspective on the anti-American whining that goes on and on and on. I respect your right to whine, I just wish you would be fair about it. One of my older sons is now serving in the war on terror. He may very well be asked to pay the ultimate price for *his* decision to serve. But, he *willingly* chose to go, because he believes, as I do, that there are somethings in this world that are right to do, and there are some people in this world that need protection. And there are some people in this world that need to die. Do I want my son responsible for killing a family? Of course not. But he, like all of us, are dependent on those in authority over us. If you want to see a *real* picture of an American soldier and not the usual tripe that gets blathered by some in this soapbox, go to : http://www.michaelyon-online.com/cart/images/NoFrameLG.jpg This little girl was killed by a murderous bomber in Mosul, Iraq. The American soldiers tried to save her first, before their own ... I want you to *think* a little bit before spouting off with your trite little phrases and quoting imperialist nonsense. If the US was as imperialist as you say, we don't need a terrorist attack to justify taking what you claim we want. Far be it from me to claim the US is perfect. It isn't. I'm going to go breath into a paperbag for a little while.... Peace, truly, peace to all of you C. Gilley Will program for food... My son's PDA is an M249 SAW.
In continuation of my above post... Oh and by the way, don't pull the "you apparently agree with the terrorists" just because I don't agree with the current US administration's idea on how to run the world. That's nonsense. I have absolutely no sympathy for the terroists, they are sick. Deeply sick. And I was shocked when 9/11 happende, I was shocked by the bombings in Madrid and London. Make no mistake of that. Truly shocked. But that doesn't imply that I agree with what the US are currently doing. You need a new government. Seriously.
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The beer ain't all that bad. :)
I don't drink beer. :) ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Stan, you're wasting your time. The only thing of any significance to come out of Denmark are chicks with big tits, and fancy pastries. I hear they're really good friends with the French, too. Rhode came up with other significant things - Lego and C++. I think the list is now complete. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -- modified at 5:59 Monday 16th January, 2006
Funny you should say that, seeing as Denmark is one of the few other countries ouside the US and the UK with troops in both Iraq and Afganistan, and likely still sending fresh troops to both locations. Also funny seeing as the danish government backed the US actions in Iraq, and have had terrorist threats towards us for doing so as well. Perhaps the general population doesn't support the actions, and increasing discontent towards it, however, the government in control still does support the US - although they face increasingly preassure due to the actions concerning general disregard for the human rights they so desperately try to portray as wanting to save. Especially after the no-WMD facade, tortures, and bombing of civilians because the "intelligence" agencies sais there might be something there. Many many reports are of terrorists hiding in Saudi Arabia, however - I don't see news of Airstrikes killing off civlians there. Egypt? Come on and pull your head out for once and actually start thinking. Terrorisme is a terrible thing - however - after the Cold War this is how warfare is moving towards. Much should indeed be done to limit it, however, bombing random civlians will not limit it - on the contrary. Such arronge and disregard for other human beings will only add to it. You don't win a war on terrorisme by killing off or alianating your allies. Especially when terrorisme is withouth borders in a global world. No wonder the general population sees the US as arrogant with morons (like some does here) expressing as if they actually knew something of the world, other then the propaganda which would make even the strongest dictatorships jealous. --------------------------- 127.0.0.1 - Sweet 127.0.0.1
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Added to the list. Thanks. :) ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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I've always been pro-US. Big pro. But their behaviour the last couple of years fills me with disgust. They keep killing innocent people without ever getting the teorrists (which I agree should be captured). The US mentality that they can just bomb whom ever where ever is a true danger to peace. I fear this American outragoues behaviour will keep on until someone stands up to them big time. I'm outraged at the American disdain for non-US life. They are sick. Almost as sick as the fundamental muslim terrorists. They are not there yet, but man they are on their way. I had hoped better from that nation. Boy was I wrong.
I so strongly agree. To begin with I was even in favour of the invasion of Iraq, and supported removing Saddam, although I felt the WMD argument was hard to belive - I saw it as the "greater good". Especially post 9/11. I supported the removal of Taliban in Afganistan, and still do. However, fundamentalisme in all forms are horrible whether it be a muslim terrorist group or US government bombing civilians because they *think* there might be some bad guy there. And if it was so black and white as some people here like to portray - then encourage your government to start bombing in Saudi Arabia and Egypt as well - after all, there are many reports of terrorists in these countries - come on please.... Or go after the WMD in North Korea or invade Iran as well with their nuclear project. Hippocrites. --------------------------- 127.0.0.1 - Sweet 127.0.0.1
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I agree that Pakistan has serious terrorist problems and needs to sort them out if it wants any leg to stand on in the international world. But the U.S. does have some responsibility, you cannot say it is not your fault at all. Your intel was wrong, again, and innocent people died. Show some sympathy, admit the mistake and move on. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
Paul Watson wrote:
Show some sympathy, admit the mistake and move on.
No, I won't do that. The Pakistanis would not need to concern themselves with American mistakes if thier population did not general support the terrorism inflicted upon us. Read Adnan's posts. It is entirely hopeless trying to get through to him. And he, one would assume, is a person of education and intelligence. That part is not our fault at all, and the kind of mistakes made in this instance are inevitable. I have no problem admiting the mistakes the US has made. But I also do not believe in making excuses for the people of the Islamic world. They have a responsibility which they are making no effort at all to fulfil. They are a freer, healthier, more independent people today than they have ever been due primarily to the existence of the US. For all of our mistakes, we have done far more good than harm around the world, including the middle east. It seems we might be forgiven for being a bit less than perfect from time to time. If the first priority of the US is to never make any one angry, than we will simply never be able to defend ourselves. Frankly, I think Pakistan should have been either invaded or largely carpet bombed long ago. In the long run, I see no other way to deal successfully with terrorism than taking out all of its bases of support by direct, brute force. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
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Paul Watson wrote:
Show some sympathy, admit the mistake and move on.
No, I won't do that. The Pakistanis would not need to concern themselves with American mistakes if thier population did not general support the terrorism inflicted upon us. Read Adnan's posts. It is entirely hopeless trying to get through to him. And he, one would assume, is a person of education and intelligence. That part is not our fault at all, and the kind of mistakes made in this instance are inevitable. I have no problem admiting the mistakes the US has made. But I also do not believe in making excuses for the people of the Islamic world. They have a responsibility which they are making no effort at all to fulfil. They are a freer, healthier, more independent people today than they have ever been due primarily to the existence of the US. For all of our mistakes, we have done far more good than harm around the world, including the middle east. It seems we might be forgiven for being a bit less than perfect from time to time. If the first priority of the US is to never make any one angry, than we will simply never be able to defend ourselves. Frankly, I think Pakistan should have been either invaded or largely carpet bombed long ago. In the long run, I see no other way to deal successfully with terrorism than taking out all of its bases of support by direct, brute force. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
I don't think even America can afford that. Inevitably America will have to be a world spanning empire. Giving Iraq back to the Iraqis is not going to stamp out America threatening terrorism. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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Stan Shannon wrote:
What the f*** are you talking about? The terrorists are living in Adnan's country
are you making a claim that there are terrorists in PAKISTAN or in any muslim country only?
Stan Shannon wrote:
It is their responsibility to do something about it.
NO,we had been leading a really Fcuking Live for long time before invasion of Afghanistan by US and General`s decision to support Bush govt,you guys had really made many locals` life like hell and there is NO doubt about it.
Stan Shannon wrote:
When countries like Pakistan demonstrate they have the ability to stop people living in their country from going on international murder sprees.
Alqeda is a myth same goes for Osama and Co,today Bush is in office coz of Osama ,one shouldn`t forget appearance of Osama before election on tv which aided bush to raise his graph during election campaign, you guys would never get Osama or any of like minded people who are called "Terrorists* by your govt. I challange you stan,even if your country attack on Pakistan or all suspected countries,you will never get the guy and what could be reasons behind it? 1)there was no alqaeda on earth,some terrorists orginzation on paper 2)Osama has dead or has set his invisible mode 3)umm maybe protected by country who wants to use him for fulfilling his own intrests? ;) and there is a word for such people , Traitor,like we had traitor in pasts in india like Meer Jafar and Meer Sadiq who helped Brits to destroy Indian kings of that time, for me Osama or co is not a mujahid but a traitor,in past,I was also thrilled that this osma had got balls to reply US,but as the time passed and i found casualties in afghanistan and iraq,i realized that this is something else. why its like that every other afghanis is getting killed but not two persons like oSama and Aiman Zaharwi?they are NOT EVEN LOCALS like afghanis,how come they are able to save themselves,i read in papers that blah blah of osama was killed,blah blah guard got killed but OSama saved,latest i found that His driver was captured or killed but there was no OSama.. pakistan itself has handled many people to US and frankly speaking,some of them were not terrorists at all,i do remember the story of a doctor who was captured by pakistani officials just coz he used to treat people in afghanistan including talibans,whi
I've never felt it was a good idea to make terrorism an issue about a handful of individuals such as Osama. As we saw again in yet another incident, it is virtually impossible to track them down over such vast regions where they enjoy so much support. Yet, while I do not entirely agree with every decision my government makes, I nonetheless support it. For all of its many mistakes, the US has always been a force for good in the world. We still are. I certainly do not believe that President Bush is the best leader we could have wished for to manage this situtation. But regardless of who held that office now, these kinds of mistakes would still be occuring. There is simply no way to avoid them. The future of the Islamic world is entirely up to the people of Islam. But the US is simple no longer going to tolerate the notion that your civilization can blithfully disregard the existence of mass murderers, that it feels free to generate them and spew them around the world. We will deal with that threat in what ever manner we deem most appropriate. The very last thing we should concern ourselves with is who we are making angry and why. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself" -- modified at 7:24 Monday 16th January, 2006
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peterchen wrote:
Because Pakistan wouldn't have let them in? Just guessing.
I don't think that is a reason. The Pak Prez goes out of his way to make Bush happy! Whatever was done was probably done with the full knowledge of the Pak Govt. Regards, Nish
My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET
Pakistan will not let US troops in the country. He will not allow us to folow the terrorists into his country. This has been stated by him many times over.
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Paul Watson wrote:
Show some sympathy, admit the mistake and move on.
No, I won't do that. The Pakistanis would not need to concern themselves with American mistakes if thier population did not general support the terrorism inflicted upon us. Read Adnan's posts. It is entirely hopeless trying to get through to him. And he, one would assume, is a person of education and intelligence. That part is not our fault at all, and the kind of mistakes made in this instance are inevitable. I have no problem admiting the mistakes the US has made. But I also do not believe in making excuses for the people of the Islamic world. They have a responsibility which they are making no effort at all to fulfil. They are a freer, healthier, more independent people today than they have ever been due primarily to the existence of the US. For all of our mistakes, we have done far more good than harm around the world, including the middle east. It seems we might be forgiven for being a bit less than perfect from time to time. If the first priority of the US is to never make any one angry, than we will simply never be able to defend ourselves. Frankly, I think Pakistan should have been either invaded or largely carpet bombed long ago. In the long run, I see no other way to deal successfully with terrorism than taking out all of its bases of support by direct, brute force. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
Stan Shannon wrote:
he Pakistanis would not need to concern themselves with American mistakes if thier population did not general support the terrorism inflicted upon us.
Your apparent lack of understanding of the real world is staggering. Problem is that such behaviour (bombing houses where terrorists supposedly hang out) will only spark even more resentment in the affected areas, making it further possible for terrorisme to grow and spread. You can't bomb every house you think hold terrorists and expect people getting hit to be gratefull and thank you for it. It turns into a circle of revenge instead. Terrorisme needs to be stopped indeed, but doing so by breading more terrorisme is not really the way to go forth. Terrorists doesn't run around in uniforms bearing a lable "Terrorist", thus you can't use the conventioal military strategy to target them.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Read Adnan's posts. It is entirely hopeless trying to get through to him.
Pot, meet Kettle. Fundamentalisme in all forms is horrendous. It shows nothing but a lack of understanding of the world and personal bias. "I'll take clueless for 1.000,- Alex." --------------------------- 127.0.0.1 - Sweet 127.0.0.1
