Muslims vs the civilized western world
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Eddie Velasquez wrote: I don't want to start a flame war here but I want to point out that israeli jews also lived in the same region for the same amount of time. Yes, but then they left for about 2000 years and expected that the land would be waiting for them when they returned. Moreover, if you look at biblical and talmudic scholarship, you will see that at the time Israel was founded, most orthodox rabbis believed that there was a clear command from God that the Jews not return to the Holy Land until the coming of the messiah. At that time, the founding of Israel was seen by a large fraction of observant Jews as a blasphemy.
Jonathan Gilligan wrote: Yes, but then they left for about 2000 years and expected that the land would be waiting for them when they returned Communities of jews always lived there. And they didn't leave, they were kicked out by different cultures. Jonathan Gilligan wrote: Moreover, if you look at biblical and talmudic scholarship, I'm not a jew so I wouldn't know. And the problem isn't who's been there for the longest time. The problem is that both palestinians and israelies live there now and they have to learn to live together peacefully.
Eddie Velasquez: A Squeezed Devil (Don't you just love that anagram craze?)
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There are a lot of threads in the lounge discussing world problem especially Muslims vs the civilized western world. Muslims are seen as barbaric, ungrateful, and stupid. They kill a lot of other Muslims, and Indians kill some of them too, why they jumped every time Israelis kill some of them? I think people with this kind of views are just hypocrites. Can they use the same arguments to blacks in America: you blacks kill a lot of other blacks, do you mind us white people kill some of you, too?
As far as I'm concerned, all of the fanatic religious groups should get their collective shit in one sock and realize that it's possible to live next to each other (worshipping whatever version of god they happen to believe in) without continually bumping elbows. What the fuck is wrong with everybody? The world is going to hell in a fuckin handbasket, and everyone's STILL arguing over being someplace first. It's time to move the fuck on with our lives and learn to get along, because it's only gonna get more crowded on this rock. "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Jonathan Gilligan wrote: Yes, but then they left for about 2000 years and expected that the land would be waiting for them when they returned Communities of jews always lived there. And they didn't leave, they were kicked out by different cultures. Jonathan Gilligan wrote: Moreover, if you look at biblical and talmudic scholarship, I'm not a jew so I wouldn't know. And the problem isn't who's been there for the longest time. The problem is that both palestinians and israelies live there now and they have to learn to live together peacefully.
Eddie Velasquez: A Squeezed Devil (Don't you just love that anagram craze?)
Checkout GUIDGen.NETEddie Velasquez wrote: And the problem isn't who's been there for the longest time. The problem is that both palestinians and israelies live there now and they have to learn to live together peacefully. I agree completely. There is fault on both sides in this. The Israelis state categorically that they can never allow the Palestinians to live peacefully as citizens of Israel, no matter how peaceful they become, because Israel must maintain a Jewish majority in order to be both a democratic and a Jewish state. On the other hand, despite what they sometimes say in English to reporters, the people with political power among the Palestinians (Arafat, Hamas, etc.) tell their own people that they want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. In many ways, the people (Israeli and Palestinian) are held hostage to a bizarre symbiosis of extremist (terrorist) leaders. Hamas wants Sharon to crack down hard in Gaza and on the West Bank because that helps them challenge Arafat's power. Arafat wants Sharon to crack down because it helps justify to the West his own alliance with terrorists. Sharon and Netanyahu want the Palestinians to send suicide bombers because it helps push the electorate to the right and thus helps their bids for power. Meanwhile the Israeli and Palestinian civilians are shot and bombed daily. Sharon has gotten (sorry, Chris ;P) so extreme that Israeli soldiers are starting to refuse to serve in Gaza, claiming that the Israeli army is committing serious war crimes there. The hope for peace is that somehow both peoples will throw out their corrupt leaders and demand serious efforts to secure peace. Don't hold your breath, though.
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Yeah, unfortunately, it all started because of the way state of Israel created in this case...off course, humanity has always been fighting one another, but this was the reason for the current problem. And it's not just the way the country was carved out in the middle of a land where Palestinians have lived for thousands of years, it's the fact that after creating this country, unforunately, certain countries have blindly supported every act of one side for the longest time, which doesn't do good in terms of bringing peace to a region. Otherwise, muslims and Jews have actually had a historically good relationship with one another. I mean when Jews were being persecuted against all over the Europe, they were living comfortable lives in Spain under muslims... So, it's really the consequence of misguided foreign policies, one after the other for many many decades, unfortunately...You can not say that some book that 70% of the world doesn't believe in, says that Mr. X used to live here, so here is your land and then, after doing that, constantly support one side over the other...I think even if you want to give a place to a persecuted people after centuries of homelessness, do it in a more fair and equitable manner...a mess has been created, so all we can do, is hope that this mess can be fixed at some point..but considering how the two people hate one another now, I don't know what you can do!
I am totally ignorant of history: I heard from somewhere that it was suggested to the US president to build Israel on german soil but the idea apparently didn't get any attention. That would have made some sense because germans were responsible for killing a lot of Jewish people. However, the world would not be any better today if Israel were built on german soil. Instead of suicide bombers, we would get hit by german-engineered laser-guided rockets! :(
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There are a lot of threads in the lounge discussing world problem especially Muslims vs the civilized western world. Muslims are seen as barbaric, ungrateful, and stupid. They kill a lot of other Muslims, and Indians kill some of them too, why they jumped every time Israelis kill some of them? I think people with this kind of views are just hypocrites. Can they use the same arguments to blacks in America: you blacks kill a lot of other blacks, do you mind us white people kill some of you, too?
I find it interesting that you've titled this thread 'Muslims' vs 'The Civilized World' rather than something like "Muslims and the rest of the Civilized World". A Freudian slip of sorts. Apparently you view muslims as less than civilized too. :confused: A minor point, I realize, but things like that indicate underlying beliefs. At some point people need to stop thinking of themselves as victims because otherwise they will do continue the victimizers work for him. For example, the Black people in America certainly were -- and to some extent are still -- victims, but they also have pride. They have role models like Rosa Parks and Malcolm X. They have music which celebrates their culture. Imagine instead that the Black people in America had become bitter victims, committing killings and terrorist acts, but never trying to better themselves in spite of their hardships. The US would be a very different place. And another thing, why does your last sentence talk of killing other people (Blacks) to make your point? If that's your idea of a solution to prejudice, you've just demonstrated that you are indeed barbaric, ungrateful and stupid. X| "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
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There are a lot of threads in the lounge discussing world problem especially Muslims vs the civilized western world. Muslims are seen as barbaric, ungrateful, and stupid. They kill a lot of other Muslims, and Indians kill some of them too, why they jumped every time Israelis kill some of them? I think people with this kind of views are just hypocrites. Can they use the same arguments to blacks in America: you blacks kill a lot of other blacks, do you mind us white people kill some of you, too?
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I find it interesting that you've titled this thread 'Muslims' vs 'The Civilized World' rather than something like "Muslims and the rest of the Civilized World". A Freudian slip of sorts. Apparently you view muslims as less than civilized too. :confused: A minor point, I realize, but things like that indicate underlying beliefs. At some point people need to stop thinking of themselves as victims because otherwise they will do continue the victimizers work for him. For example, the Black people in America certainly were -- and to some extent are still -- victims, but they also have pride. They have role models like Rosa Parks and Malcolm X. They have music which celebrates their culture. Imagine instead that the Black people in America had become bitter victims, committing killings and terrorist acts, but never trying to better themselves in spite of their hardships. The US would be a very different place. And another thing, why does your last sentence talk of killing other people (Blacks) to make your point? If that's your idea of a solution to prejudice, you've just demonstrated that you are indeed barbaric, ungrateful and stupid. X| "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
"I find it interesting that you've titled this thread 'Muslims' vs 'The Civilized World' rather than something like "Muslims and the rest of the Civilized World". A Freudian slip of sorts. Apparently you view muslims as less than civilized too. A minor point, I realize, but things like that indicate underlying beliefs." It is not that I have low respect for myself or my people. It is because the word "civilization" is associated with so much hypocricy that I am not ashamed to stay away from it. "At some point people need to stop thinking of themselves as victims because otherwise they will do continue the victimizers work for him. For example, the Black people in America certainly were -- and to some extent are still -- victims, but they also have pride. They have role models like Rosa Parks and Malcolm X. They have music which celebrates their culture. Imagine instead that the Black people in America had become bitter victims, committing killings and terrorist acts, but never trying to better themselves in spite of their hardships. The US would be a very different place." I am not a religious man and I don't think my people are better or worse than any other people. Funny that you should mention blacks in America. If you dare to come to the United States and say half of the bad things the media has said about Muslims to a black on the street, I bet $100 that he will beat the crap out of you and shovel squishy tampons in your mouth! "And another thing, why does your last sentence talk of killing other people (Blacks) to make your point? If that's your idea of a solution to prejudice, you've just demonstrated that you are indeed barbaric, ungrateful and stupid." And you, you are just plain stupid. Advice: if you can't read or think, shut up and go back to coding. ;P Flame on ...
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I find it interesting that you've titled this thread 'Muslims' vs 'The Civilized World' rather than something like "Muslims and the rest of the Civilized World". A Freudian slip of sorts. Apparently you view muslims as less than civilized too. :confused: A minor point, I realize, but things like that indicate underlying beliefs. At some point people need to stop thinking of themselves as victims because otherwise they will do continue the victimizers work for him. For example, the Black people in America certainly were -- and to some extent are still -- victims, but they also have pride. They have role models like Rosa Parks and Malcolm X. They have music which celebrates their culture. Imagine instead that the Black people in America had become bitter victims, committing killings and terrorist acts, but never trying to better themselves in spite of their hardships. The US would be a very different place. And another thing, why does your last sentence talk of killing other people (Blacks) to make your point? If that's your idea of a solution to prejudice, you've just demonstrated that you are indeed barbaric, ungrateful and stupid. X| "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
Daniel Ferguson wrote: Imagine instead that the Black people in America had become bitter victims, committing killings and terrorist acts, but never trying to better themselves in spite of their hardships. No offense to anyone but there are some, and its no use denying it, that act this way and it just hurts there own cause. -:suss:Matt Newman:suss: -Sonork ID: 100.11179:BestSnowman Frankly AOL should stick to what it does best: Fooling millions of americans into believing that it, AOL, is the web. -Paul Watson
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Daniel Ferguson wrote: Imagine instead that the Black people in America had become bitter victims, committing killings and terrorist acts, but never trying to better themselves in spite of their hardships. No offense to anyone but there are some, and its no use denying it, that act this way and it just hurts there own cause. -:suss:Matt Newman:suss: -Sonork ID: 100.11179:BestSnowman Frankly AOL should stick to what it does best: Fooling millions of americans into believing that it, AOL, is the web. -Paul Watson
Yes, it does hurt their cause, but those are only some of the people. There are others who do try to better themselves and their culture -- these people improve it for the rest. "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
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"I find it interesting that you've titled this thread 'Muslims' vs 'The Civilized World' rather than something like "Muslims and the rest of the Civilized World". A Freudian slip of sorts. Apparently you view muslims as less than civilized too. A minor point, I realize, but things like that indicate underlying beliefs." It is not that I have low respect for myself or my people. It is because the word "civilization" is associated with so much hypocricy that I am not ashamed to stay away from it. "At some point people need to stop thinking of themselves as victims because otherwise they will do continue the victimizers work for him. For example, the Black people in America certainly were -- and to some extent are still -- victims, but they also have pride. They have role models like Rosa Parks and Malcolm X. They have music which celebrates their culture. Imagine instead that the Black people in America had become bitter victims, committing killings and terrorist acts, but never trying to better themselves in spite of their hardships. The US would be a very different place." I am not a religious man and I don't think my people are better or worse than any other people. Funny that you should mention blacks in America. If you dare to come to the United States and say half of the bad things the media has said about Muslims to a black on the street, I bet $100 that he will beat the crap out of you and shovel squishy tampons in your mouth! "And another thing, why does your last sentence talk of killing other people (Blacks) to make your point? If that's your idea of a solution to prejudice, you've just demonstrated that you are indeed barbaric, ungrateful and stupid." And you, you are just plain stupid. Advice: if you can't read or think, shut up and go back to coding. ;P Flame on ...
AMuslimReader wrote: It is not that I have low respect for myself or my people. It is because the word "civilization" is associated with so much hypocricy that I am not ashamed to stay away from it. This is weak. Civilization implies cultural refinement and technological advancement, yet you want to stay away from it? :laugh: AMuslimReader wrote: If you dare to come to the United States and say half of the bad things the media has said about Muslims to a black on the street, I bet $100 that he will beat the crap out of you and shovel squishy tampons in your mouth! Yay, more violence. Well, we can see how your mind works. :| Anyway, I disagree. I'd say the average black person isn't so insecure about their culture that they would feel forced to attack to justify/validate their race. I think our hypothetical black man would look at me, ask me what is wrong with me, and walk away. Maybe that's just because that is how I would react though. AMuslimReader wrote: And you, you are just plain stupid. Advice: if you can't read or think, shut up and go back to coding. So, you've run out of half-decent arguments and resorted to childish insults? :rolleyes: Did you ever consider that maybe you are helping to make the decent muslims out there look 'barbaric, ungrateful, and stupid'. Try to let go of the hate and violence. :) "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire